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Knar

Movies - International versions

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The other day I watched international version of "the Professional" and I was blown away by the differences in the US version versus the International version. Basically, they added 20 minutes of footage to the movie, gave the characters more complexity and less innocence.

Matilda, our 12 year old protagonist, instead of being seen as a semi-Lolita victim, comes off being a lot less innocent and a lot more sexualized in the International version. I guess America was not ready for the Lolita complex or the startling frankness of a 12 yr old character. And the characters were a little more fleshed out.

But with the added footage, it was much better. It made me curse American filmmaking and our tendencies for only the happy endings and simple stories.

So, my question is for you guys is, do you know any other really good International versions of films that I should watch instead of American ones.

Thanks a bunch!

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I sort of doubt they "added" 20 minutes to the "international" version ":shifty:"

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Are you suggesting the footage was in fact removed for the American version? Dangerous thinking, Chris. Surely they wouldn't censor a film for an American audience. Freedom.

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I guess Eyes Wide Shut's non-US release doesn't have bluescreened shadow people wandering around in front of the sex, but I don't know if it's really an improvement.

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I'm not sure if I have any inclination to watch "Eyes Wide Shut". Somehow, I never thought of it being a really cool film.

As for American audiences and our simplistic minds that can't handle certain subjects or sad endings, grrr.

It reminds me in AI, where at the end, it should have ended on a sad, but contemplative note. Instead, we got this 1 minute lame happy ending sequence randomly inserted in. The ending not only detracted from the entire movie's mood, but you knew it was put in there because the American public couldn't handle a sad ending.

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Runtime: 110 min / France:136 min (uncut version) / 133 min (International version)

I wonder what those three minutes are in that french uncut version of Leon?

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didn't we have a thread about the different versions of Leon?

well... the "french" version referred to here is a rerelease. the movie was originally released worldwide in more or less the same version as the "us" one you are referring to Knar. A little later it was rereased in France (and only in France at that) with the so-called directors cut that your "french" version is referring to. If I remember correctly the three extra minute in the french version is a scene where Mathilda talks about how old she is. Anyway, with DVD all those limitations are lifted and anybody can see the movie the way it was supposed to be shown. Even though the directors cut is a lot better, that is NOT how the movie was originally shown and probably dates back to a studio decision to make it more of an action movie with less of a relation between Leon and Mathilda.

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as far as Eyes Wide Shut is concerned, I thought it was a brilliant movie and I don't really care about the fact that we weren't shown all those varying genitalia, however I always hate creative vision being compromised for commercial, or even worse, moral reasons... but still I really loved the movie and especially the orgy-sequence was just really really great. again, not because of the context, but because it was really beautifully shot and cut. to me a real Kubrick masterpiece.

AI obviously was shite, even though jude law gave quite a memorable performance, i thought. but spielberg really can't do kubrick ;P totally different style and just not harsh and uncompromising enough...

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as far as Eyes Wide Shut is concerned, I thought it was a brilliant movie and I don't really care about the fact that we weren't shown all those varying genitalia, however I always hate creative vision being compromised for commercial, or even worse, moral reasons... but still I really loved the movie and especially the orgy-sequence was just really really great. again, not because of the context, but because it was really beautifully shot and cut. to me a real Kubrick masterpiece.

AI obviously was shite, even though jude law gave quite a memorable performance, i thought. but spielberg really can't do kubrick ;P totally different style and just not harsh and uncompromising enough...

I once watched AI... I temporarily lost my will to live.

Not because it was a sad ending, but because they went through all of the bull shit to get us there, and then randomly made it go bad.

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I always hate creative vision being compromised for commercial, or even worse, moral reasons...

You really think creativity compromised for morality is worse than creativity compromised for commercialism?

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Kill Bill Volume One is another movie that comes to mind. Apparently, North American audiences can't handle seeing fake blood in full colour. :shifty: There were a few other minor changes that I can't remember right now.

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I'm really glad that scene went black and white for the US version. The reviews I read of the international cut made it sound like that whole bit was a lot less interesting and unique feeling when it was in color all the way through. I liked that it went from color to black and white to that all blue shadow scene to color for a bit and then to the nearly monochrome snow scene. It was nice that it changed it up so much. Anyway...

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You really think creativity compromised for morality is worse than creativity compromised for commercialism?

Well... I was talking about "pseudomorality" as in what I like to call "american hypocrisy", where sexual content is thought to be morally injustifiable but extreme levels of violence still get a PG-13 rating... in general though, I guess any artist has the obligation to make some moral judgements for himself when creating something. I just really hate OTHER people imposing their "moral" standards on art and mostly missing the point.

Commercial compromise to me is a two bladed edge because I believe that on a certain level really great art appeals (touches) all people. So reaching out for a bigger audience, when done well, isn't always such a bad thing in my opinion. Of course I am not talking about REAL commercialization. But even in movies when you have the choice of being really krass and cutting edge, putting people off OR trying to appeal to the wider audience by toning stuff down and making it a LITTLE bit more accessible isn't ALWAYS such a bad thing...

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didn't we have a thread about the different versions of Leon?

well... the "french" version referred to here is a rerelease. the movie was originally released worldwide in more or less the same version as the "us" one you are referring to Knar. A little later it was rereased in France (and only in France at that) with the so-called directors cut that your "french" version is referring to. If I remember correctly the three extra minute in the french version is a scene where Mathilda talks about how old she is. Anyway, with DVD all those limitations are lifted and anybody can see the movie the way it was supposed to be shown. Even though the directors cut is a lot better, that is NOT how the movie was originally shown and probably dates back to a studio decision to make it more of an action movie with less of a relation between Leon and Mathilda.

In the American version of "the Professional" the following scenes were cut out.

1. When Leon and Matilda go to a really nice restaurant and drink champagne

2. I think when Leon and Matilda go sleep in the same bed

3. Some scenes when Matilda tells Leon that she loves him in full detail - really laying into the Lolita complex and Leon actually discussing his love.

4. The one that really got me, is Matilda accompanying Leon on his hits for training. In the US version, they show her shooting the president with a paintball rifle, but that's the full extent of her training.

It's more than 3 minutes of what I saw. More like extra 20 minutes.

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Ok that is not the "american" version, but the international official release.

the "international" version you are referring to is the rereleased director's cut.

the "french" version is 3 min longer as I said earlier.

The short version was the official release.

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Ok that is not the "american" version, but the international official release.

the "international" version you are referring to is the rereleased director's cut.

the "french" version is 3 min longer as I said earlier.

The short version was the official release.

Okay, got it. So whatever I saw in TV was the international version, the only version that I knew about.

And the other day, I saw the rereleased director's cut.

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Go see the theatrical version and the director's cut of Blade Runner, another example of movie producers changing the ending to make it more "uplifting" They added extra footage to the end and adding horrible voice overs by Harrison Ford (who did a crappy job on purpose hoping they wouldn't add them, they did) to try to force the fact that Deckard was human. The Director's Cut is one of my favorite movies but I can't even watch the theatrical version because they butchered it so badly.

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Well... I was talking about "pseudomorality" as in what I like to call "american hypocrisy", where sexual content is thought to be morally injustifiable but extreme levels of violence still get a PG-13 rating... in general though, I guess any artist has the obligation to make some moral judgements for himself when creating something. I just really hate OTHER people imposing their "moral" standards on art and mostly missing the point.

Commercial compromise to me is a two bladed edge because I believe that on a certain level really great art appeals (touches) all people. So reaching out for a bigger audience, when done well, isn't always such a bad thing in my opinion. Of course I am not talking about REAL commercialization. But even in movies when you have the choice of being really krass and cutting edge, putting people off OR trying to appeal to the wider audience by toning stuff down and making it a LITTLE bit more accessible isn't ALWAYS such a bad thing...

Ok, but that last situation you give (toning stuff down and making it a LITTLE bit more accessible) could precisely be an example of a morally-instigated change. No offense, but it sort of sounds like you yourself have a double standard.

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I do, I call it my own opinion.

All I am essentially saying is, as long as it's the ARTIST'S decision, it's fine with me.

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Go see the theatrical version and the director's cut of Blade Runner, another example of movie producers changing the ending to make it more "uplifting" They added extra footage to the end and adding horrible voice overs by Harrison Ford (who did a crappy job on purpose hoping they wouldn't add them, they did) to try to force the fact that Deckard was human. The Director's Cut is one of my favorite movies but I can't even watch the theatrical version because they butchered it so badly.

The real director's cut will propably never be released.

It has been rumoured that Ridley Scott has the longer 2 dvd set director's cut ready for release, but there are some licensing problems that prevent him from releasing it.

I bet BR would've been quite amazing if Ridley would've had the freedom to do what he wanted.

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I do, I call it my own opinion.

All I am essentially saying is, as long as it's the ARTIST'S decision, it's fine with me.

Fair enough. I don't know if I'd agree, though; I feel an artist can make a horrible decision just as anyone else can, being motivated by any number of unworthwhile factors.

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The real director's cut will propably never be released.

It has been rumoured that Ridley Scott has the longer 2 dvd set director's cut ready for release, but there are some licensing problems that prevent him from releasing it.

I bet BR would've been quite amazing if Ridley would've had the freedom to do what he wanted.

Well, they want to do an edition of bladerunner that would have the theatrical release, the director's cut, and the new director's cut but they're unable to get the rights to the theatrical release because some other guy owns the rights to it.

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With regards to AI, I actually really like that movie, as long as I always remember to stop the DVD at the same point. When he's sitting in the helicopter eternally praying to the blue fairy until his battery dies, I stop it. A friend actually wanted to see the movie once when he came over, and I stopped it there. He was really pissed with me. Kind of a "What the hell are you doing? The movie isn't over yet!" thing. So I let him watch the rest of it while I went and played Rogue Leader for a while (yes, this was a few years ago). He came into the room when the credits were rolling and told me that he'd never question me again if I stopped a movie in the middle.

God that ending is horrible...

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