Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate

[Dewar]

Oh hey there's a thread on this.

 

Anyone playing without a cirlce pad or New 3DS stick? How tolerable is it? I tried the demo but I couldn't figure out how to use the on-screen camera control properly and there's no way in hell I'm doing the claw. I'll probably order a CPP eventually but is it worth picking this up in the mean time if I'm used to playing Tri with a pro controller?

 

I have subsisted without a second analog stick for 3 games now (starting with Monster Hunter 2 on PSP.) I don't use the touch screen D-Pad at all (that wasn't an option on PSP,) I simply use the L1 re-center camera control a lot. This has gotten even more useful with the lock-on finally being worth using this time around.

[Griddlelol]

Edit: Again, I'd advise you to check out the demo on the eShop to make sure you like it before putting money into it (although it sounds like you already have XD)

 

Does any progress you make in the demo transfer to the game? I'd hate to spend a couple of hours grinding then realise I completely wasted that time when I bought the full game (I haven't spent any money).

 

I didn't like having to do fetch quests and kill shitty little guys after fighting crazy big bosses who were challenging and fun. The searching for items is what drove me away because it felt like a chore, and something that was completely unnecessary. 

 

What I liked about Freedom Wars is that you don't have to repeatedly play fetch quests or kill nothing enemies (until end game). You get everything you need just by progressing through the bosses. 

 

Having only played 4's demo, I'm gonna say probably nah. You have to really be into the Core Gameplay Loop™ to get anything substantive out of MH, because it's just going to be that spread out over (maybe) hundreds of hours, and 4's seems largely identical to 3's. The metagame stuff might be cooler and more expansive, but ultimately that stuff isn't The Game, and it either clicks with you or it doesn't.

 

I really liked the boss fights. I hated grinding. 

[N1njaSquirrel]

Does any progress you make in the demo transfer to the game? I'd hate to spend a couple of hours grinding then realise I completely wasted that time when I bought the full game

 

It doesn't. From what I played of the demo, you just choose a monster out of a rosta of 3 and go at it. But I never touched the SP part of it.

 

(I haven't spent any money)

 

Sorry, I meant spent money on the MonHun series in general, not specifically 4 (my bad)

 

 

I didn't like having to do fetch quests and kill shitty little guys after fighting crazy big bosses who were challenging and fun. The searching for items is what drove me away because it felt like a chore, and something that was completely unnecessary. 

 

The first 2 tutorial missions are fetch quests, but from then on, the fetch quests are completely optional. They've clearly identified that as a problem for beginners, and have made it so that you could theoretically not do a fetch quest at all. They're still there, but you don't have to do them unless you're wanting full completion. Even the Guildmarm says that they're dull!

[Griddlelol]

The first 2 tutorial missions are fetch quests, but from then on, the fetch quests are completely optional. They've clearly identified that as a problem for beginners, and have made it so that you could theoretically not do a fetch quest at all. They're still there, but you don't have to do them unless you're wanting full completion. Even the Guildmarm says that they're dull!

 

Wow, that's actually a big step towards me potentially buying 4.

 

Are they still required for making the best (I say best, but what I really mean is progression, since end game MH is probably not something I care about...yet) loot? I remember 3 having to do some farming for stuff at the start just to make a chest piece (I think) that ended up looking ridiculous. 

[RubixsQube]

So, I am being pretty slow with this, last night I completed a (very early, I'm assuming) hunt where I took down a Great Jaggi, which was pretty fun, as I'm now starting to understand the insect glaive's loop. It's still a little tedious to paint the target, send out the insect, and recall the insect, especially while I'm also trying to escape a monster and it's little underlings. It looks, though, like if I want to upgrade any of my weaponry, or get new weaponry, I'm going to have to do this again and again, am I right in thinking that this is going to be a thing where to upgrade anything you have to put a lot of grinding in? That's going to sour me on this experience, as I don't have an infinite amount of time to really farm the random bones and teeth. Maybe that's kind of The Thing With This Game, and maybe I should just shut up and keep playing, but I'm worried that if I keep playing, I won't be leveling up my weapons at the rate that I should to match the difficulty curve. 

 

I'm actually really liking it, even if I'm getting a little tired of the ancestral steppe area (but only a little). It's really fun when you get into a rhythm with a monster! I've really liked the monster behavior, it seems fairly natural. If you focus an attack on a leg, the monster falls over for a bit, which makes sense! Other games don't do that! 

[N1njaSquirrel]

Are they still required for making the best (I say best, but what I really mean is progression, since end game MH is probably not something I care about...yet) loot? I remember 3 having to do some farming for stuff at the start just to make a chest piece (I think) that ended up looking ridiculous. 

 

Was that the Butterfly armour per chance? Because that's a fantastic chest piece, in both it's design and stats. Farming for the stuff was ridiculously boring because it was just bugs.

 

 

upgrade anything you have to put a lot of grinding in? That's going to sour me on this experience, as I don't have an infinite amount of time to really farm the random bones and teeth. Maybe that's kind of The Thing With This Game, and maybe I should just shut up and keep playing, but I'm worried that if I keep playing, I won't be leveling up my weapons at the rate that I should to match the difficulty curve.

 

Definitely end game has grind for that all-important drop, but in general I found that in 3 (I also haven't gotten that far in 4 yet) I didn't really need to worry that much about the items for the upgrades. In general there is 1 specific item per upgrade that has a higher rarity than the other items, which would require me to grind a specific monster, but at this point it should be a pretty easy drop. I would say not to worry too much at this point, proficiency in the weapons themselves are more important early on. 

 

I would even go so far as to say not to worry too much on upgrading weapons, as soon better weapons would be unlocked in the forge, which will give you a bigger step up than upgrading. (I'm sure someone more versed in MonHun could correct me on this)

[Dewar]

There's always going to be some grinding inherent to Monster Hunter, but I was well into the 4 star quests before I really had to worry about it in MH3U. Even then, I only had to fight the same monster 3 or 4 times to get the item I wanted for my next hammer upgrade, and I probably could have made do without the upgrade at all if I really had to. As long as your stopping while on missions to occasionally do some mining/bug catching/fishing/other gathering, you can make it.

 

Also, if we start playing multiplayer around here, you'll probably end up fighting some of the same monsters over again, without it being as grind-y.

[RubixsQube]

Ok, I appreciate the hand-holding you guys are providing around here. It seems like I should just be playing along and completing the various quests until it gets tough, then maybe grinding a little from there. I was just disheartened that it seems like all of the various upgrades and new weapons and the like require things I haven't seen at all. Also, I am going to hold off on upgrading armor until I can create a set, right? Also, are there consequences for dying? I suppose I lose whatever items I've collected and used in that fight, yes? But do I lose anything else? 

[N1njaSquirrel]

Don't bother upgrading your armour at all until you get to advanced hunter levels. When you become an advanced hunter, you unlock a second tier of armour that is the same set of armour, but with better stats, and those armour stones are a pain to re-collect, so keep 'em until later.

 

As for sets, I was told that the best starting gear to forge is a complete Jaggi armour set, as it's relitively easy and I think it gives you poison resistance? In reality though, a complete set is hard to come by later on, as getting one requires serious dedication to get items that have a drop rate in the single digits. And on top of that, the buffs and de-buffs are more exaggerated, so it's best to mix and match.

 

As for dying, you can feint 3 times before you lose the mission. When you feint you lose half the reward money, and (more importantly) any buffs you get from the meal you ate beforehand. you keep anything that you had in your pouch. Failing a mission is slightly different however, You keep the stuff in your pouch (I think) and you lose all your reward money. Any items that can be converted into cash or points (like wyvern's tears) are converted though. (I hope that makes sense)

[RubixsQube]

That does make sense! I think that I'll try for a jaggi set, I've got a few different items already from jaggi hunts that can allow me to get that armor. And poison resistance seems like a good thing to have, considering how much of an annoyance that potentially might be. 

[Sno]

So, if I didn't get into Monster Hunter 3 on 3ds (even after buying a CPP for it) is there any chance I'd like 4? The idea of the game makes it sound like it's my thing. That I'd love it, but in practice I get tired of the grinding really fast. 

 

I've tried other "hunting" style games, I thought Soul Sacrifice was bad, and I really liked Freedom Wars (right up until the end when the difficulty gets to a ridiculous point that you need to upgrade all your shit, but the upgrades are low percent chance random fucking drops).

3U didn't have online play on the 3DS, so did you play it multiplayer at all? Personally, i never would have gotten into Monster Hunter without a group of friends kind of forcing me to stick with it and play with them, and playing the game in a group is still absolutely the most appealing thing about it. Having a diverse team fulfilling different roles in a sprawling, dynamic multiplayer boss fight is thrilling.

 

I can definitely sympathize about the grind though, and if you just can't stand that about Monster Hunter, i'm not going to tell you that you that you should just deal with it. It's a part of the series, and i've grown to understand why it's a part of the series, but that doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

As for RubixsQube's questions, Ninja's covered mostly everything i would have said, but i'll just run through some quick replies:

 

- If you find the bug staff tedious, definitely play around with other weapons more. If you want to stick with it, i understand that getting the bug's speed stat up is the most important thing to do for it.

- Don't upgrade armor early on, just build armor with more defense. Also, don't obsess over complete sets, you want to mix and match for skills, and to perhaps mitigate crippling elemental weaknesses.

- Focus on weapons in the early game, but once your weapon needs resources you don't have access to, start leveling up another weapon so you can have backups.

- Casual resource gathering in low-stress missions should get you most of the way to anything you want to make, and if that's not the case, you might be trying to min-max the early game more than you need to.

- Failing a mission completely resets you to the pre-mission state, doesn't it? You don't get to keep anything, i think. Dying in a mission just reduces your reward potential and removes a respawn ticket.

- If you complete a sub quest and then fail, the mission counts as successful, weirdly enough. So you keep your stuff and get relevant rewards and everything. (Just not the main rewards, and perhaps it doesn't get marked off as completed. Not sure about that.)

[Griddlelol]

3U didn't have online play on the 3DS, so did you play it multiplayer at all? Personally, i never would have gotten into Monster Hunter without a group of friends kind of forcing me to stick with it and play with them, and playing the game in a group is still absolutely the most appealing thing about it. Having a diverse team fulfilling different roles in a sprawling, dynamic multiplayer boss fight is thrilling.

 

I can definitely sympathize about the grind though, and if you just can't stand that about Monster Hunter, i'm not going to tell you that you that you should just deal with it. It's a part of the series, and i've grown to understand why it's a part of the series, but that doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

I never played online, and I suspect that's why I didn't have the drive to push through the grind. I've come to terms with it: I'm not going to bother with MH4 because I just can't stand the grind. It's not for me, because of that, despite the boss fights being superb. 

[RubixsQube]

oh man, fishing mini-games are not fun to me.

 

Patience, I hear, is a "virtue"

[Sno]

I never played online, and I suspect that's why I didn't have the drive to push through the grind. I've come to terms with it: I'm not going to bother with MH4 because I just can't stand the grind. It's not for me, because of that, despite the boss fights being superb. 

 

Given that you seem to have expressed quite a lot of interest in the genre, i feel like you should probably at least have that experience. The Monster Hunter 4U demo has online play, so if you ever have the opportunity to run through that with somebody who knows Monster Hunter relatively well, you should do at least that.

 

oh man, fishing mini-games are not fun to me.

 

Patience, I hear, is a "virtue"

 

There are so few types of fish that it's relatively easy to get what you want, but the different types of lures can scare away every other type of fish except for the ones you want, making it even easier.

It's the egg carrying missions that will really have you in swearing fits.

[RubixsQube]

Yeah, I just fought a Selta, which was tedious, since the thing was real intent on not allowing me to attack it. I am still pretty shit at collecting essences using the insect glaive. It's relatively easy to target the monster and get a little fuzzy spot, but then it's a pain to try to get the insect to actually go and collect it, especially against the fast moving Selta. I went through quite a few potions in that battle.

 

And now I'm going to go and do that egg transporting mission. But I'm not super excited about it.

[N1njaSquirrel]

And now I'm going to go and do that egg transporting mission. But I'm not super excited about it.

 

Just don't bother with the sub-quest, it's a joke.

[RubixsQube]

Actually, the second egg I got (after the first one is kind of given to you when you enter the zone) was gold. I had transported it all the way back to the second-to-last zone, and I was doing a pretty good job staying away from enemies when a stupid insect got me right at the last minute. Fuck those missions. I assume if you try to hustle too much, you drop the egg, right? 

 

Also, I've only been so-so at doing the sub-quests, since sometimes I don't even know what they mean. "Destroy the Selta's Horn"? Whatever. I'm still not really able to change my weapons to anything better, due to missing various important items, but I guess it's still way, way early in the game. I don't know why I'm focused on this, but I just feel like I'm not doing something right, although maybe I'm used to getting more upgrades quicker in games.

[N1njaSquirrel]

Yeah, If you run out of stamina you drop the egg. It also used to be in 3 that if you did a shortcut that involved jumping off a cliff you'll break the egg too. Not sure how true that is now though.

 

the 'Destroy X' sub-missions means to destroy that part of the monster's body. A cool thing with MonHun is that attacking a particular part of a monster constantly will 'destroy' that section of the monster. Keep attacking the monster's tail and it'll be chopped off, attack a selta's horn and it'll break, etc etc. Usually this is accompanied by a flinching animation and the monster changing it's look. It's a really neat way of knowing how close you are to finishing a monster as well as one of my favourite things about the series, because by the time you're getting close to killing it, they'll have destroyed wings, broken beaks and cut-off tails.

 

In the case of Selta, the giant green horn that he predomidantly attacks with can be cut off. I believe that even attacks that connect but bounce off still does break damage, just not HP damage, if that makes sense.

[Sno]

The egg carrying missions aren't too bad online since you can have people keeping monsters off of you, but done solo, they're just the worst thing in the game.

 

About lopping bits off of monsters, it also often modifies their behavior, perhaps preventing them from using certain attacks and the like.

 

Here's an important thing to understand though: Focusing on one weapon is a bad idea. It limits your ability to cope with the variety of challenges that will come your way, but you're also going to run into certain upgrades being bottlenecked by requiring drops from monsters that are far ahead of your current progression, and perhaps not even being particularly great items for it. If you're juggling a couple of different weapons and their upgrade trees, you give yourself a fallback when you hit these bottlenecks.

 

Back to that first thing though, that it limits your ability to deal with a variety of situations, because there are going to be cases where your weapon is simply not the best option against a monster. Perhaps almost every piece of a monster is heavily armored and your weapon's sharpness isn't great enough to cut through it. Weapons with wide arcs are just going to be deflected and you're never going to be able to stab at the soft belly you're trying to aim for. In a situation like that, weapons with short ranges, or weapons that can stab like the lances, will be preferrable. Or against flying enemies, you want weapons that have high vertical swings. (Though, honestly, the bug staff's ability to leap into the air and do airborne attacks from anywhere on the map makes it just about the best blademaster weapon for fighting flying enemies.)

 

More than that, deep into the game you're almost going to be forced to swap out weapons, even within the same weapon class, so you can take advantage of elemental attacks against monsters that are weak to them. (You'll likely even craft many sets of armor tailored specifically to get the most out of your individual weapons, that's why there's UI options for building equipment sets.)

 

With all of that stated though, I think playing around with two or three weapons and some basic catch-all armor is a good starting point for a good, good long stretch of the early game. (I'm talking sub-100 hours here. Yes, that's the early game.) Certainly though, if you feel like your gear progression is slow, that's your cue to go experiment.

 

Specifically with regards to the bug staff: If you hit the input for launching out the bug after the bug is already flying, the bug will reorient itself to match your character's facing. In this way, you can nudge your bug in the right direction to help it chase down targets. (Now, i don't play bug staff myself, but i believe the second redirection will always also double as a spin attack. You can also charge the bug before releasing it to do another spin attack right as it's let go, in addition to also then allowing for more redirection commands.)

[RubixsQube]

Yeah, I hear you, but it's just tough when there is like, four hundred million options, it's paralyzing. I have a box full of random materials I've collected, and a million different weapon types. I think I'll redo the great jaggi hunt in order to try out some other weapons and also mine for jaggi items. I really appreciate all of the advice, everyone! I feel a little out of my league considering how far afield this game type is from what what I'm used to. At the moment, I've just unlocked the "expedition" option, so I'm going to see what the hell that means, what with all of the warnings that the caravaneer was giving. 

[dium]

I'm in the same boat as you, Rubix, and probably the exact same part of the game. I've barely done anything past hunting the great jaggi, but I've done that twice and it was fun enough that I'll probably mimic what you're doing and try it again with different weapons.

 

I've been playing with the Lance almost exclusively, and now that I have a handle on it I feel so clumsy when I try anything else. But that hunting horn is calling to me... being a master-wielder of a hulking metal bagpipe is maybe the very coolest.

 

I'm afraid of trying out any of the ranged weapons, but I feel like I should eventually start trying to use at least one of them.

[Sno]

The lance is my favorite weapon, and i can tell you from experience that you'll definitely want a fallback that lets you be more actively mobile.

 

Though you can be pretty damn mobile with the lance if you get a handle on the running charge attack(R+X+A), which keep in mind, will seem useless until you're at a green sharpness weapon. It will deflect off of almost everything before then, but once you get up past green sharpness, it's a rapid-hit attack that can end with an extra powerful attack, or a leap. The latter detail making it the other weapon, aside from the bug staff, that can mount a monster from anywhere. (X for the attack, Forward+B for the leap and X in the air to attack and potentially mount, or a neutral B to simply end the dash while on the ground. You can also steer slightly by holding left or right.)

 

Of its basic moves, upward angled attacks always do more damage than the horizontal attacks. You can side-dodge twice in a row if you use it after an attack, so abuse that, and the normal backstep, to line yourself up for more attacks. (They also have invincibility frames, but those windows are incredibly small.) You also have the option to do an advancing guard, a forward step with your shield raised, and you can optionally end it with a shield bash that inflicts a portion of knockout damage, like a hammer would, if used on an enemy's head. (Forward+R+X to do the advancing guard, X again to shield bash.) R+A, on the other hand, is a counter hit that can absorb an attack and immediately strike back.

 

To round out the descriptions, your standing X+A is a nice wide arc attack to help clear out small, fast moving harassers, and R+X is a slow stab that keeps your shield raised, but your normal X and A attacks are dramatically better. (Again, the upward stab does more damage.)

The lance is awesome, nobody plays lance, but it's totally awesome.

 

The Hunting Horn is also pretty incredible, but mostly in multiplayer. I honestly don't know how it would go over solo, it would probably still work out totally fine. Your buffs work for the entire party though, and you start pulling aggro the more buffs you have active. It's amazing, it's one of the best weapons to have in a multiplayer party.

 

The bowguns are basically dual-analog if you play with a circle pad pro or on an N3DS, they're incredibly easy to use. The bow, on the other hand, has a very strange control scheme that will likely take some getting used to. Given how many people prefer blademaster, being able to play as a gunner in a multiplayer group is highly valued, especially for support shots or status-effect inflicting shots.

 

The expeditions are weird.

With the exception of a few scripted scenarios, they're essentially rogue-lite stages, they're randomized areas constructed out of a toybox of forest arenas and any monsters you've faced in the solo game progression. There is no time limit when you go into them, but monsters, which will shuffle between areas of the randomly generated stage as normal, will eventually also actually just leave the area if you take too long. (There will be an onscreen notice when you're close to one of these time limits.)

 

You can actually skip fighting monsters though, aside from those scripted expeditions. There are items you seem to only be able to obtain during expeditions, and you could just go into one, make a mad dash for those drops, and run to the end of the area to complete it.

 

Anyways, like a lot of things, the expeditions are essentially re-rolled after every tick of world time. (You must have realized by this point how every mission you do advances or randomizes certain elements of the overworld areas.) You can check the info screen for the expedition every once in a while and see if it looks like there's anything interesting going on. (If it says there's a poogie in the area, for example, you can obtain a new costume for your poogie.)

[Dewar]

I'm glad I'm training up on the bow

[Sno]

The bow probably has the best DPS of the ranged weapons, and it definitely has the most versatile moveset, it's just... It's so damn strange. Also keep in mind that its damage falls off over distance, something that isn't true for the bowguns.

Speaking of the bowguns, it's the light bowgun gets the majority of the support/status effect stuff, while the heavy bowgun essentially sets you up to be a sniper.

 

I... I only play ranged when i have to, so i don't have lots of advice to give on them.

[Pepyri]

From the start I've been spending the majority of my time with the Insect Glaive, but I can't quite tell if I enjoy it or not.

 

I genuinely dislike the setup phase. It feels haphazard, how my bug rarely actually goes to the color I want. And in a game as exact as this, that feels crappy.

 

I've been contemplating switching to Longsword, as I got a Rusted one cleaned up and it has even higher damage than my Glaive I upgraded. Thoughts?