Zunless Zee (Sunless Sea)

[kaputt]

Played a couple of hours of it Sunday. I totally suck at this game. I appreciate any advise on how to get echoes to make things possible in this game. I only went to some places near Fallen London that haven't got me enough money to spend on fuel and supplies.

[Dewar]

Every time you go out, plan a loop to hit as many places as possible and get port reports. Obviously, you can deviate from that route to explore, but having an idea of where you want to go helps a bunch. Turning in port reports gets you one fuel a piece as well as a few echos, and can generally keep you in business at the start.

 

Abuse friendly ports like Hunters Keep. There are a few places on the map that will give you free supplies every time you stop by. Make sure to swing by them both heading out and coming back in (as long as you have the Something Awaits You lantern.)

 

Get good at the combat. It's fairly easy to get in behind most of the beginner enemies and plink away at them, regardless of your gun power. Taking out the sea life can get you enough supplies to keep on going without having to buy any.

[Twig]

So I finally ended a 30+ hour campaign

????

 

I don't know how I feel about wanting this game, now... That's really long.

[Dewar]

My first play was around 10 hours, my second is up to that as well. It is certainly a time sink.

[Gottfrid]

My first play lasted for about 20 minutes. Guess I suck at this kind of game.

 

I didn't understand how to dock, so my crew was starving and then a huge ship appeared and crushed me in like two shots.

[Ninety-Three]

I didn't understand how to dock, so my crew was starving and then a huge ship appeared and crushed me in like two shots.

 

There's a little circle of light in each port, pull your ship into that circle and press E to dock. You can see the circle in London's dock as you pull out of it for the first time.

 

This means that you have to find the specific port location to dock, you can't just pull up at any random spot on an island and go ashore.

[Gottfrid]

There's a little circle of light in each port, pull your ship into that circle and press E to dock. You can see the circle in London's dock as you pull out of it for the first time.

 

This means that you have to find the specific port location to dock, you can't just pull up at any random spot on an island and go ashore.

 

I got that during my (ongoing) second play. I don't understand how I could have missed it the first time...

[Deadpan]

My first play lasted for about 20 minutes. Guess I suck at this kind of game.

 

My first attempt also consisted of running headlong into rocks until I was killed by pirates. Makes it all the weirder though that the game then asks what kind of relationship my next captain should have to this one (rival, shipmate, etc). None at all, hopefully?

[Dewar]

Yeah, that's a weird way to frame the legacy stuff. but what you're really passing on is a trait and maybe a crew member or piece of equipment.

[Gottfrid]

My first attempt also consisted of running headlong into rocks until I was killed by pirates. Makes it all the weirder though that the game then asks what kind of relationship my next captain should have to this one (rival, shipmate, etc). None at all, hopefully?

 

Haha!

 

It's a nice feature though and I like that you play as different characters in the same universe, rather than that the world "resets" with each new captain.

[Ninety-Three]

It's a nice feature though and I like that you play as different characters in the same universe, rather than that the world "resets" with each new captain.

 

Well the world does completely reset. You can get up to some world-altering shenanigans, and while your next captain has a narrative tie to the previous one, everything other than your inheritance will be wiped clean. It would be interesting to have a game where those sorts of things persisted, but in this game a lot of what that would mean is just locking out a bunch of quests because they've already been played through previously.

[Gottfrid]

It would be interesting to have a game where those sorts of things persisted, but in this game a lot of what that would mean is just locking out a bunch of quests because they've already been played through previously.

 

Hmm, I noticed that the map was altered but I thought the lore and story was consistent.

[Ninety-Three]

Hmm, I noticed that the map was altered but I thought the lore and story was consistent.

 

No, if you for instance, raise a particular faction to Supremacy, that has some wide-reaching effects, and those will go away on reset, as will permanent world-changes, like the death of specific characters.

 

To be clear, the lore and story are not randomly generated, they're prewritten and the same each time, it's just that your progress through them resets with each new character.

[Gottfrid]

To be clear, the lore and story are not randomly generated, they're prewritten and the same each time, it's just that your progress through them resets with each new character.

 

Oh, that's a bit disappointing.

 

But whatever, it's a great game!

[Dewar]

It's actually good as it would be really hard to start out a new character without having the earlier quests to get some early cash. Also, it's possible to completely lock yourself out of a quest line, so at least this way you get a second shot at it.

[Gottfrid]

It's actually good as it would be really hard to start out a new character without having the earlier quests to get some early cash. Also, it's possible to completely lock yourself out of a quest line, so at least this way you get a second shot at it.

 

Now that I've sinked a few more hours into the game, I'd say that's probably true, yes

[Jordan A]

I was trying to describe this to some friends last night and I started off pretty well with "London fell into the ground" and "it has a boat" but then I got into the weeds rambling about "collecting colours" and "memory honey."

 

I don't know if I sold it to them or not. I certainly wanted to go home and play it though.

[Ninety-Three]

I was trying to describe this to some friends last night and I started off pretty well with "London fell into the ground" and "it has a boat" but then I got into the weeds rambling about "collecting colours" and "memory honey."

 

I don't know if I sold it to them or not. I certainly wanted to go home and play it though.

 

Well it didn't quite fall. The Bazaar stole London three decades ago. Of course, only revolutionaries say "stole" any more.

 

 

 

I am so in love with the game's weird lore.

[Deadpan]

It is pretty cool, but also a blog I write for has picked Sunless Sea as their next item of discussion, and even as the only guy around who spent a lot of time with Fallen London I'm sort of unsure what can be said about it, generally, except that it spreads puns and solid writing across a very broad and very varied slice of bread. There's a lasting facination with the secret life of mundane objects (screams sealed in jars with wax, letters in a secret language that can burn your skin if you read them) and it generally places itself near the idea of natural philosophy (so a time when natural sciences and humanities were not a seperate things yet) but other than that?

 

I'm just sort of overwhelmed with trying to interpret something so broad right now. I mean, it contains about a million words by their own account.

[Merus]

In the deepest matters of the Bazaar, always look to love.

 

The Bazaar stole London three decades ago. Of course, only revolutionaries say "stole" any more.

 

The actual circumstances around the fall of London are, I think, my favourite storyline in Fallen London, because it's told almost entirely through the aftermath.

 

When you arrive at Court, you find out that the nominal ruler of London is The Traitor Empress, who very strongly resembles Queen Victoria and cannot take light or large noises. Her husband, Albert, is a boisterous fellow.

 

In another storyline, you find out how the Third City fell - that the Masters approached the ruler of that city, and offered to spare her husband's life in exchange for the city. But it came with a cost: she withered, and the poison in his veins consumed him, so that now he is a bloated monster that drips venom - but he lives.

 

Queen Victoria's husband, Albert, died of pneumonia. The Masters approached Victoria, and offered to return him to life in exchange for the city. She agreed, betraying London for her husband - but in return, she is confined to the palace, unable to leave.

 

[kaputt]

Every time you go out, plan a loop to hit as many places as possible and get port reports. Obviously, you can deviate from that route to explore, but having an idea of where you want to go helps a bunch. Turning in port reports gets you one fuel a piece as well as a few echos, and can generally keep you in business at the start.

Abuse friendly ports like Hunters Keep. There are a few places on the map that will give you free supplies every time you stop by. Make sure to swing by them both heading out and coming back in (as long as you have the Something Awaits You lantern.)

Get good at the combat. It's fairly easy to get in behind most of the beginner enemies and plink away at them, regardless of your gun power. Taking out the sea life can get you enough supplies to keep on going without having to buy any.

Thanks for the tips. I want to try this out again after finishing some games of my backlog. Your discussions about the game are interesting, must be a good game, I just need to learn how to play it.

[Ninety-Three]

I ended up pursuing a romance with one of my officers, and I realized that this game handles romance in an interesting and perhaps unique way. Pretty much every game I can think of has what I'd call an affection model of relationships: You do things that make the person like you, and eventually they like you enough that romance ensues. Sunless Sea instead looks at romance as a matter of compatibility. One of your officers is a wild rogue with no interest in "tiresomely sincere" lovers, to romance them you must have a Veils stat (stealth and skullduggery) at least 20 points higher than your Hearts. The doctor respects insight and has no patience for crassness, your Mirrors (perception) stat must be at least 20 points higher than Iron (the "combat" stat). Is your character a 150 Iron badass war hero? The doctor's not interested, and you'll never get to pursue her.

 

It's very interesting, both from a mechanical implementation perspective, and just because it made me realize that seemingly everyone else handles romance essentially the same way. I suppose it comes down to the fact that beyond a "Light side points vs dark side points" system, most games don't really let you define a personality for your character (sure you can roleplay, but the game doesn't recognize that your roleplaying adds up to, say, "I'm a loose cannon cop who doesn't play by the rules"). Then again, Sunless Sea managed to take character stats and build them into personality, so maybe all those other games are just slouches.

[Cbirdsong]

I'm really liking all the writing and world building in this game, but the upgrades and economy feel really poorly tuned? It doesn't seem like the first few boats are worth upgrading to from the starter one, but I haven't really had enough money to consider it anyway, despite having explored a good 2/3 of the map. It seems like the best way to not die is to just avoid combat, so gun upgrades aren't really worth much. Engine upgrades seem to consume a ton of fuel without a commensurate increase in speed, so the most efficient one is the one you start with. It seems like there are so many trap options. Is that the point? It does make zailing the zee feel rather inhospitable, I guess.

[Ninety-Three]

I'm really liking all the writing and world building in this game, but the upgrades and economy feel really poorly tuned? It doesn't seem like the first few boats are worth upgrading to from the starter one, but I haven't really had enough money to consider it anyway, despite having explored a good 2/3 of the map. It seems like the best way to not die is to just avoid combat, so gun upgrades aren't really worth much. Engine upgrades seem to consume a ton of fuel without a commensurate increase in speed, so the most efficient one is the one you start with. It seems like there are so many trap options. Is that the point? It does make zailing the zee feel rather inhospitable, I guess.

 

They all have their uses. The Lampad is very fast (with it and the best engine, you can outspeed the game's biggest enemies, backwards), and the Phorcyd is the cheapest and lightest ship to get a Forward weapon slot which essentially doubles your firepower. Combat is something you generally want to avoid (until you set out with the goal of killing a particular thing), but I've found the gun upgrades to be useful for the ability to easily blow away random crabs or jellyfish without having to dodge around them or risk hull damage in combat. Similarly, engine speed is a luxury you pay for in worse fuel economy, and it lets you outrun enemies (useful for either blazing past and avoiding combat, or outmaneuvering in combat).

 

I think the core problem you're seeing is that it's pretty easy to avoid combat once you've figured things out, and there's not much incentive to fight unless you want a specific kill. Having played the game a ton, that's definitely there, and it's not great.

[Gormongous]

I think the core problem you're seeing is that it's pretty easy to avoid combat once you've figured things out, and there's not much incentive to fight unless you want a specific kill. Having played the game a ton, that's definitely there, and it's not great.

 

Yeah, that's something that's a little confusing. When I played the game a long time ago, I remember being able to capture and sell vessels for a profit that made combat usually worth it. With the release version, the fuel cost and hull damage means that combat is broadly unprofitable, and since you can't capture vessels anymore unless you have a flensing weapon, which are only mountable on sufficiently expensive vessels that I doubt it'd be good money at that point in your career, I assume the intent is just to make it something you avoid entirely.