Dark Souls 2 (Dark Souls successor (Demon's Souls successor))

[Trip Hazard]

Trespassers can summon in help from signs within the tower.

 

Whoa, even in vanilla DS2?

 

Wait, do you mean from player-dropped signs, or NPC signs?

[Bjorn]

Yep, in vanilla regular signs are visible so long as the Gargoyles are alive, and small signs are always (I think) available.  In SotFS they actually added one NPC (Masterless Glencour) who is available, so you can always have at least one companion.

 

It's not common to see signs, because they get used quickly plus the person who dropped the sign may themselves get invaded, thus erasing their sign.  If you really want to help people, you can dash onto the little bridge, drop a sign, and then dash back through the doorway into the Bastille.  You can still get summoned, but can go mess around in the rest of the Bastille without worrying about getting invaded yourself. 

[Gwardinen]

I dunno, if I don't actually have to kill the gargoyles I might just avoid that area. I don't really know any of the meta behind Dark Souls PvP and whenever I win against an invader I always feel like it was more luck than anything else.

 

I've not seen any summoning signs in Huntsman's Copse yet, and having put down my own sign I've only been summoned once.

[Bjorn]

I'd encourage you to go ahead and give the area a shot, just go in after you've spent all your souls, so all you're risking is a humanity.  You'll get a few twinks (low level tryhards) in there, but mostly it's going to be other similar level people playing for fun or for covenant rewards.  I honestly think the Bell Covenant is one of the better ideas that the DS2 team had.

[Bjorn]

I went back to my Pickaxe peasant and took another shot at Elena, finally summoning in Bernhart because I could not deal with her and Velstadt at the same time.  Aaaaaaand, she didn't summon Velstadt at all.  Turns out she's super easy when its just her and some skeletons. 

 

So then I decided to try out the notorious trio.  By the time I got to their bonfire, it was getting a bit late, but I figured I'd take at least one shot at them.  I wasn't doing terrible, but then I botched a roll and Fake Havel backstabbed me   I was pretty sure I could do it though, so I went back and pulled it off the second time.  I really didn't think it was that bad of a fight.  Havel is the only really bullshit part of it, with his infinite stamina and crazy pivot tracking on his swings.  It probably helped that my build is perfect for single high damage hits, which makes hit and runs a bit safer.  I had the archer killed by my third lap kiting the other two around, then it was just some patience of waiting for openings against the Alva clone.  Havel was a pain even by himself though, had to switch to my blacksmith's hammer because it swings faster.  There's just hardly enough time on him to get a safe swing off with how often he can bring that dragon tooth down on you. 

 

Probably the worst part about that fight is the gauntlet you have to run to get there.  The only other place that's comparable to that is going to the Smelter Demon in Iron Keep, where there are so many enemies between you and the boss.  I can see how it would be a hair pulling frustration if you had to fight it more than a couple of times. 

 

I also did a bunch of PvP last night on the Iron Keep bridge.  The Pickaxe is kind of a terrible PvP weapon, but damn is it satisfying to get a good hit in with it.  I scored a 1900+ point hit on a naked dude, one shotting him.  Not having armor against it is a bad fucking idea.  I probably lost 80 percent of my fights though.  The most hilarious series were all against someone named Daenerys, who was running a lightning lance, a medium shield, the invisible armor set and casting miracles.  Great cosplay, asshat.  Anyways, first fight out, Daenerys buffed multiple times, I bowed, and she charged at me with the lance.  I dodged out of it, but ultimately lost, and she spammed all the taunting gestures over me.  Dragons who don't bow piss me off, especially if they take the time to buff multiple times.  Summoned her again, got up within about 10 feet of her spawn point.  She spawned, cast the first buff, went into the animation for the second buff, and I pounced on her with the Pickaxe.  Dead Daenerys.  Summoned her again.  She cast the first buff, went into the animation for the second buff, and I pounded on her with the Pickaxe.  She managed to get away before I could kill her, sprinted off to chug some estus, and I backstabbed her.  Dead Daenerys.  Summoned her a third time.  This time she just charged me as soon as she spawned.  I kept dodging back, and would bow to her each time she exhausted her stamina from using the lance's R2.  She finally tagged me, so I figured I'd better start fighting.  Hit her twice and got her down to about a third of her health and she Alt-F4'd out.  I didn't see her sign on the bridge anymore after that. 

[Gwardinen]

I just got to the Iron Keep!

 

I think I more or less skittered my way through Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak. I was too scared to go off the beaten path while alone, and didn't want to make phantoms wait when I had any with me. So I killed the bosses but I'm pretty sure I effectively skipped most of the area. Looking at a walkthrough, there are whole sections and NPCs mentioned that I just never met... but it's a blighted poisonous hellzone, so maybe I should just be pleased I got through it?

 

As for the Iron Keep, it's proving pretty hardcore. A lot of invasions, from both NPCs and other players. I'm not sure how well I'm going to do here without some phantom assistance.

[Bjorn]

Take Iron Keep slow, those fucking knights can wreck you in no time. 

 

Going back through Earthen Peak to find Gilligan would be a good idea though, he's a neat NPC and has some value/utility later in the game in a couple of different ways.  If you happen to be flush with souls when you initially find him, buy anything you want from him then, as his prices go up about 20 percent when he moves. 

[Deadpan]

Still not sure how I feel about the belltowers. I get that it's fascinating from a design perspective to mush the divergent player expectations and goals into each other like that, but for me as a player that can get quite annoying. I mostly come to the Soul games to explore the world and slowly rise to their mechanical challenges, and encountering other players is usually just an unwanted disruption of my pilgrimage. It's not just because I'm bad at fighting other players, although I certainly am, but also because I always feel like I don't even get a fair chance anyway. Like, I tend to use really straightforward builds, rely almost exclusively on physical damage and very rarely dodge or parry where just blocking will do. And that serves me perfectly fine for getting through the game! But it doesn't work at all for fighting other players. Either they use some sort of elemental damage I can't block effectively, or they use some sort of magic I've not seen and then I'm dead.

 

It feels like invasions just need an entirely different set of tactics from the rest of the game. Since they're also quite rare, however, it doesn't feel worth it to me to prepare myself for them either in terms of mechanical competence or equipment or skills or whatever. So instead, I just resign to getting my butt kicked by some rando every so often, who then nine times out of ten does that rude "What was that?" gesture. Like what, you're disappointed I didn't put up a good fight? It's not like I was looking for one. Even if that doesn't happen, no amount of bowing to each other beforehand is going to put me on equal footing to the person that's here against my wishes.

 

That's just not intersting to me. And I guess nobody's really looking forward to being invaded in these games, but that's part of the reason why I always liked how Dark Souls 1 allowed you to opt out of all online play by just not going human. That's already out of the window with Dark Souls 2 allowing you to become human anywhere and consequently allowing invasions all the time since people could wait until they've completed the trek from the nearest bonfire to the bossfight that previously acted as the invasion window. But those random invasions were still pretty rare for me, so they're definitely not on the level of saying "This area is just invasion central and you have to go through it to continue."

 

I did manage to ring the bell pretty easily and then just hoofed it to the fog gate on consequent tries since the gargoyles are not that hard to fight even without help, but I don't think I really like the concept of the area.

[Gormongous]

Probably the worst part about that fight is the gauntlet you have to run to get there.  The only other place that's comparable to that is going to the Smelter Demon in Iron Keep, where there are so many enemies between you and the boss.  I can see how it would be a hair pulling frustration if you had to fight it more than a couple of times.

 

Fair warning, the worst part of the Old Iron Crown DLC is fighting another Smelter Demon with an even bigger and more bastardly gauntlet than either of those to traverse. I only beat him after I'd depopulated its entire length with repeat runs.

[Bjorn]

Fair warning, the worst part of the Old Iron Crown DLC is fighting another Smelter Demon with an even bigger and more bastardly gauntlet than either of those to traverse. I only beat him after I'd depopulated its entire length with repeat runs.

 

Well that sounds joyful.  I think I probably found the entrance to that fight with my archer, it had a set of graves similar to the entrance to the trio fight.  And I've already fought the Fume Knight (and lost), and pretty sure I found another boss fight, so that only leaves the alt-smelt fight.  At least I found some spooky armor next to a bonfire that I elected not to touch, because I was about to quit. 

 

 

Still not sure how I feel about the belltowers. I get that it's fascinating from a design perspective to mush the divergent player expectations and goals into each other like that, but for me as a player that can get quite annoying. I mostly come to the Soul games to explore the world and slowly rise to their mechanical challenges, and encountering other players is usually just an unwanted disruption of my pilgrimage. It's not just because I'm bad at fighting other players, although I certainly am, but also because I always feel like I don't even get a fair chance anyway. Like, I tend to use really straightforward builds, rely almost exclusively on physical damage and very rarely dodge or parry where just blocking will do. And that serves me perfectly fine for getting through the game! But it doesn't work at all for fighting other players. Either they use some sort of elemental damage I can't block effectively, or they use some sort of magic I've not seen and then I'm dead.

 

It feels like invasions just need an entirely different set of tactics from the rest of the game. Since they're also quite rare, however, it doesn't feel worth it to me to prepare myself for them either in terms of mechanical competence or equipment or skills or whatever. So instead, I just resign to getting my butt kicked by some rando every so often, who then nine times out of ten does that rude "What was that?" gesture. Like what, you're disappointed I didn't put up a good fight? It's not like I was looking for one. Even if that doesn't happen, no amount of bowing to each other beforehand is going to put me on equal footing to the person that's here against my wishes.

 

That's just not intersting to me. And I guess nobody's really looking forward to being invaded in these games, but that's part of the reason why I always liked how Dark Souls 1 allowed you to opt out of all online play by just not going human. That's already out of the window with Dark Souls 2 allowing you to become human anywhere and consequently allowing invasions all the time since people could wait until they've completed the trek from the nearest bonfire to the bossfight that previously acted as the invasion window. But those random invasions were still pretty rare for me, so they're definitely not on the level of saying "This area is just invasion central and you have to go through it to continue."

 

I did manage to ring the bell pretty easily and then just hoofed it to the fog gate on consequent tries since the gargoyles are not that hard to fight even without help, but I don't think I really like the concept of the area.

 

I get that being invaded is not fun for quite a few players, but there are those of us who are looking forward to being invaded.  I get a thrill when that notification pops up.  It's only annoying if it happens in a particularly brutal area to go back through.  You can also always elect to go offline for the bell towers, allowing you to explore those areas without worrying about invasions. 

 

As for that sense of it not even being fair, that's why I generally don't invade other players, focusing on duels, fight clubs or the dedicated PvP areas.  I've done it occasionally, and it always just leaves me feeling kind of dirty if I demolish someone.  If someone uses the prostration or no gesture on me when I've invaded, I'll usually just leave.  Oh, and the asshats who spam gestures do it whether you give them a good fight or not.  You could fight them for  a couple of minutes, bringing them down to their last hitpoint before you lost, and they would spell spam those gestures.  Because they are asshats.

 

 

Speaking of invasions, I had a 5+ minute fight against a dude in Bela Luna this evening, during which two other Bellbros were killed, two people I summoned were killed and a red invader appeared who mostly just cheered us on and kept casting Warmth so that we could heal.  I ultimately lost, but damn was it a hell of a fight.  And I got a compliment from a different fight too!  Someone took the time to friend me to send me a nice message on the match. 

[Gwardinen]

I had a fun time bumbling around Harvest Valley and Earthen Peak with Bjorn last night. He helped me find a bunch of items and crap I'd missed because they were tucked away in weird places, covered in poisonous fog or protected by a dozen huge scythe wielding nutters. Sometimes all of the above!

After that I was just going to try dropping down the pit in Majula a bit to grab some items, when I discovered an entirely new area, with an entirely new boss. After that I discovered yet another new area, which was almost exclusively filled with rotting wooden structures in a seemingly infinite darkness. Made it through that. There's another area! At this point I realised I'd basically stumbled into the entire underworld, and when I found another bonfire I went to bed. Souls games are bizarre at times.

[Bjorn]

That was a lot of fun running around together!  We even played pin the lance on the invader.  I don't think I've ever just played with someone who wasn't a random person before. 

 

 

After that, I finally took on the last boss of the Sunken King, Sinh.  I actually liked that fight a lot.  Took me three tries.  The first one I got him two-thirds of the way down before running out of Estus, and decided I didn't want to burn a bunch of consumables to try and finish him off.  Second fight I died within 30 seconds, because he could 2 shot me. Third time I gave up my peasant clothes and actually put some armor on so I could at least take 3 hits.  I liked him because so many of the big creature fights tend to teach you to superglue your nose into their asscrack.  With Sinh, keep medium distance with hit and run attacks seemed like the best strategy.  I broke my fucking pickaxe before I could kill him though.  That durability patch can't come fast enough. 

 

Then I braved the wintery cold of the Ivory King.  That first fog gate was hilarious.  "Oh wow, a boss fog, right off the bat, that's cool.  WTF?!"  The lady commented that it looked like something was playing with me.  So then I co-oped it and learned that it's really a

 

giant fucking snow kitty.  And it was probably playing with me like a cat would.  Awesome! 

 

I haven't even fought it in my own world, and it's already jumped to the top of my favorite bosses in all the Souls games. 

[Deadpan]

It's worth acknowleding anyway that Belfry Luna is clearly designed to be managable without really engaging invading players. Ringing the bell is a little tricky, but after that you can basically make it to the fog gate before anybody even shows up.

 

It's complicated. The random invasions aren't the thing I like about the game, but they do add to the sense of braving hostlie environments that is. So as a way of keeping me on my toes while I'm learning about the threats in a new environment, they definitely have the intended effect. I just don't like the idea of making them the central threat rather than a looming presence. Although, to a degree even that complaint is pointless since the games probably benefit overall from having areas that people hate and then get to complain to each other about or feel so great for finally being out of. Like Blighttown.

 

I definitely prefer the cooperative side of things though, and fortunately the random acts of kindness do outweigh the random asshattery for me. I think thematically, the Souls games are really about that perseverance and camraderie opposite a cruel world, like a Video game adaption of Camus' The Plague. The Undead Plague, I guess.

[Bjorn]

I created a lighting/pyro caster last night, because that's the only kind of caster I've enjoyed in the Souls games (sorcery and hexing is BORING).  I knew they had nerfed the hell out of lightning at some point after I quit running a similar character in vanilla, but holy hell did they nerf it.  Base of 3 casts on Lightning Spear, 2 casts on Great LS, and the regular spear is just tickling bosses at 22 Faith with a +3 Witchtree.  I'm not expecting it to murder bosses at that point, but I would expect better damage than I was getting.  If they're going to limit casts that much, they should at least hit harder than my +3 mace with my 11 Str.

 

I did rush Straid for the Agape ring, then rush Harvest Valley to praise the sun.  It's fun just being able to camp outside the Pursuer and engage in jolly murdering people with ballista oops omg why did you step right in front of it you're the host cooperation as much as I want.

[Dewar]

That's disappointing, my first character was a lightning character.

[Bjorn]

Apparently the long tail of lightning spears is still pretty good, they get more additional casts from Attunement than any other spell, but unless you fully commit to only ATT/FTH early on, you're not going to get much out of Lightning until well past the halfway point of the game. 

[Bjorn]

Patch is out!  Woo!  The two biggies in this are:

 

• Fixed issue whereby weapon durability was decreased drastically when used on enemy corpses, friendly characters, etc. (Especially apparent for users running the game at 60 fps as the durability decrease rate was linked to the frame rate).
• Fixed issue whereby actions requiring both button and stick controller input (Jump Attack, Guard Break) were not properly registering in-game.

 

The durability fix should be a godsend, it's silly how quickly certain weapons degrade.  And hopefully Jump Attacks will be more consistent now. I only execute them about half the time as it is right now. 

 

 

I finally started figuring out how to use Pickaxe Pete in PvP last night.  The key seemed to be to not use the Pickaxe   Well, I do use it, but more as a sucker play.  Start with it, do some jumping attacks (if they work) and rolling attacks.  Maybe get a hit or two in.  Once they're good and comfortable with me just using the Pick and do something stupid, switch to the Butcher's Knife and stunlock them to death.  I'm still trying to keep all his weapons restricted to working class type items, figured the Butcher's Knife is in that category.  I just had to have something with some real horizontal movement. 

 

I also used the Chameleon item to play hide and seek with an invader in Aldia's Keep, which was a blast!  I never really committed to messing with an invader like that, it's stupid fun to watch them run past you multiple times.  I ultimately whiffed my surprise attack, but still managed to kill him.

 

Edited to Add:  I got to the Dragon Aerie last night as well.  Fuck the fuckity fuckwit who decided they needed to remix enemies there. 

 

There's a bunch more exploding hollows now, including half hidden fire ones and a group of 4 equipment destroying ones that charge you after killing the first drake.  They broke all my rings and I rage quit because I had kept Pete's Souls Memory capped just shy of 2 million, and had to cross that to fix everything.  But since I did that, I just started leveling him up again. 

[Dewar]

Yay, durability patch, might be time to play this again and make a Pyro.

[Yasawas]

Nice, is the patch out on everything do you know? I'm playing on PS4.

 

 I never really committed to messing with an invader like that, it's stupid fun to watch them run past you multiple times.  I ultimately whiffed my surprise attack, but still managed to kill him.

 

Yeah! Invasions are fun when they're done right, the way the developer intended - two people fucking with one another. Some of the best fun I've had in the Souls series was halfway through my SL1 run when I had some fully upgraded weapons and a load of good equipment I would never get the stats for, so I used to invade in starting areas and wave to people. If they waved back they got a gift and I crystalled out, if they didn't wave or tried to attack they got one-shotted with a +15 pyro glove that did about 500 damage even if they blocked it.

[Bjorn]

It went live on PC yesterday, but it looks like it hasn't yet for consoles?  I'm not sure when it will.

 

 

So I discovered Dark Souls 2 version of the bonewheels last night (Ivory King spoilers).

 

The ice rabbit sonic the hedgehog fuckers in the Ivory King.  Holy shit are they mean.  The very first three just destroyed me within seconds of aggroing them.  Immediately went back to town and upgraded my Heavy Crossbow to +10.  Eat Heavy Bold sonic.  They did result in one of the funnier moments in the game for me though.  You find a Covetous Demon in a huge cavern.  I saw it, and just charged in, because Jabba needs dead.  Then I turned a corner into a little hallway out of the cavern, and saw two of the rabbit bastards, and proceeded to run away screaming. 

 

Giant Demon Worm - Not scary

Ice rabbits - terrifying

 

Also, I don't think it looks very useful, but the snowball shortcut that fills in the bridge in the Ivory King might be the coolest shortcut unlock in any of the games. 

[Gormongous]

It went live on PC yesterday, but it looks like it hasn't yet for consoles?  I'm not sure when it will.

 

I haven't really been able to notice the effects of the patch. Without the knuckle ring, my greatsword seems to wear out at roughly the same rate (ie, it's almost gone after a run from one bonfire to another in the DLC).

[Bjorn]

The one thing I definitely noticed is that dead bodies no longer cause any degradation at all.  That will matter more for some weapons than others, as some weapons are a lot more prone to score another hit or two right after an enemy has died.  I was able to go from the starting bonfire of the Ivory King through to freeing the Loyce knight on the other side of the broken bridge, with 2 failed co-op sessions (I died once and the host died the other time).  I was swapping between 3 weapons, and ultimately had to use one repair powder.  I'm sure that wouldn't have been possible before the patch. 

[Gormongous]

I was about to come in here and praise the Ivory King DLC for having the best level design, in terms of tight and interwoven corridors that give you a great sense of scale through vistas and drops... but then I decided to duck into the Frigid Outskirts and, seriously, fuck the person who was in charge of designing that part of the DLC. All the Crowns have one boss that's usually a co-op focused remix that you have to pass something of a gauntlet to reach, on which I'm solidly neutral, but whoever thought that the logical culmination of that idea was a literally blinding blizzard full of infinitely-respawning demon horses, each with twenty five-hundred hitpoints and the moveset of the Chimera from the first Dark Souls DLC, can fuck right off.

 

I never really bought into some people's arguments that Dark Souls 2 was ruined by From Software buying into its own "prepare to die" marketing, but then I play these DLCs, which are all better designs than virtually anything in the base game, and yet the density of little dev-sent "fuck you" bits is higher, not lower, so I can't help but feel like they're core to designer intent and that intent is sometimes to make me eat shit until I find a way to thwart or just bypass said intent.

 

The one thing I definitely noticed is that dead bodies no longer cause any degradation at all.  That will matter more for some weapons than others, as some weapons are a lot more prone to score another hit or two right after an enemy has died.  I was able to go from the starting bonfire of the Ivory King through to freeing the Loyce knight on the other side of the broken bridge, with 2 failed co-op sessions (I died once and the host died the other time).  I was swapping between 3 weapons, and ultimately had to use one repair powder.  I'm sure that wouldn't have been possible before the patch. 

 

Yeah, I've also realized that the ice-type enemies are just a lot harder on certain types of weapons. I've started diversifying my melee arsenal quite a bit and the difference was, er... striking.

[Bjorn]

Yeah, I've also realized that the ice-type enemies are just a lot harder on certain types of weapons. I've started diversifying my melee arsenal quite a bit and the difference was, er... striking.

 

I noticed that some weapons are still getting shredded anyways as well.  Great Hammer's 2HR2 still just destroys durability, lost 8 points killing a single Heide Knight with 3 pancake swings. 

 

 

I was about to come in here and praise the Ivory King DLC for having the best level design, in terms of tight and interwoven corridors that give you a great sense of scale through vistas and drops... but then I decided to duck into the Frigid Outskirts and, seriously, fuck the person who was in charge of designing that part of the DLC. All the Crowns have one boss that's usually a co-op focused remix that you have to pass something of a gauntlet to reach, on which I'm solidly neutral, but whoever thought that the logical culmination of that idea was a literally blinding blizzard full of infinitely-respawning demon horses, each with twenty five-hundred hitpoints and the moveset of the Chimera from the first Dark Souls DLC, can fuck right off.

 

I never really bought into some people's arguments that Dark Souls 2 was ruined by From Software buying into its own "prepare to die" marketing, but then I play these DLCs, which are all better designs than virtually anything in the base game, and yet the density of little dev-sent "fuck you" bits is higher, not lower, so I can't help but feel like they're core to designer intent and that intent is sometimes to make me eat shit until I find a way to thwart or just bypass said intent.

 

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK the Frigid Outskirts.  I'd rather go skinny dipping in Blighttown again.  I've tried it 5 times now, twice by myself and three times with NPC help (haven't seen any people to summon).  Either way I can get to the boss, but it's time consuming.  But also either way, even once I'm at the boss, I just get destroyed.  I may need to look up some strategies for it.  Apparently you can also de-spawn the horses if you kill them enough.  If I'm bored and just want to zone out, I might just summon the NPCs and camp the spawn points for awhile. 

 

The Ivory King himself is an interesting fight. I had assumed rescuing the Loyce Knights was kind of optional, but if you're soloing him, not so much.  You need at least 3 of them.  He was one of those weird fights where I died 5 times in a row (twice without even seeing him spawn), then the 6th time it was just a perfect fight and I destroyed him like he weren't nothing at all. 

 

 

 

 

The Old Knight Ultra Greatsword is my my favorite UGS.  It's 2HR2 is a thrust that knocks enemies on their ass, which I did not know.  That's just something that doesn't get old in PvP.  And since it's an incredibly rare weapon in PvP (I have never seen it used, nor have I seen it show up in any PvP videos), people are not prepared at all for that R2.  I was intending on cosplaying an Old Knight and doing low level invades at Heides...but I'm just a terrible invader.  I feel awful when I run across some poor schmuck who clearly doesn't know how to PvP at all.  I invaded once, and this dude took off running from me, aggroed an Old Knight and  Heide Knight, ran into the dragon's firebreath, barely lived, ran away from that, and ended up impaled on the Heide Knight's spear.  I just watched.  I just watched, stoically, as he did my job for me.  

 

 

 

I've got a couple of screenshots I should upload later from some co-op and PvP sessions.  Found some interesting character names last night.

[Trip Hazard]

A shame that the durability issue hasn't completely been resolved, but all this discussion of DS2 is making me very eager to get back into it. I love Dark Souls, but I'd really like to try out a new build without having to start it from scratch!

 

Off topic, but can you respec in Bloodborne?