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Erkki

Building a home theater...

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This thread has been awesome to readthrough.  I've gone through almost the exact same research process (including staying up until 4 in the morning reading reviews).  I still haven't settled on a projector yet.  I started off dead set on getting the W1070 for the same reasons you did, then I talked myself into upping my budget to $1500-$1800, but now I'm paralized by indecision, since everything below $3K has some tradeoff or another. 

 

I did go the reverse route and put in a nice 5.1 system a few years ago powered by a Marantz SR7005.  I love this thing:

 

111mar.bac.jpg

 

I've felt that the absolute best money someone can spend on their gaming/movie setup is a good set of speakers and a good receiver.  I was blown away by how rich and detailed a lot of game sounds are that I was completely missing out on before.  After I set up this system, my go-to thing to show it off was the opening of Metal Gear Solid 4.  Kojima had his own Foley studio built for sound design on MGS4, and it shows once you've got it running in 5.1.  The detail and direction of it is fantastic.

 

I've spent a ton of time on the AVS forums reading about all the different options.  There is a dedicated thread to building your own DIY screen, with lots of pictures and diagrams on how to build a good frame, material to wrap the frame, etc.  There are also good suggestions for painting the screen to achieve the best blacks or color depending on your environment.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/f/110/diy-screen-section

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gotta love this audio visual porn of showing the backsides of devices :)

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Got blackout curtains installed today! Day-time projection is now more feasible. Also ordered some speakers which have a DAC and digital input, for testing the system before I get a real DAC+amp. I'll replace my old crappy computer speakers with these later. ma-15dbk_cw_angle_gal_tn.jpg

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So I got a projector this week and got it temporarily set up tonight (temp screen for testing, will get something better down the road).

 

This feels decadent.  Have a 137" image going right now, and it's fabulous.  Now it's going to be time to upgrade some curtains and possible repaint the room. 

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Nice! I am sticking with 96" for now, as that fits the hardboard nicely. But if I had a bigger wall I would go for 120"

 

Just got the speakers I ordered and did a bunch of wiring. My plan of sending digital audio through an existing RG6 cable in the wall worked! So happy!

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Nice!  Great when you don't have to mess with running new wires through the wall.

 

I did not intend on originally throwing an image that big.  I just ordered raw material with the intention of building my own fixed screen, and the smallest amount I could get was enough for a 145" screen.  I was going to go with a 106", as I thought anything more would be too big to use.  But, I figured I've got this big chunk of material, I might as well try a huge screen and see what it's like before I cut it up.  Turned out that it's really quite nice and is completely enjoyable, I don't feel like I'm watching a tennis match or anything.  So I think I'm going to stick with that size.  The only reason it's not a few inches bigger is that I have to eat up some of the material for the frame. 

 

When we got the screen hung, my wife was very, very, very skeptical because of how gigantic it is.  Then we fired it up in a pitch black room and she was instantly sold. 

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I also tried sending audio to the bedroom. It played, but seemed to be lesser quality, although it was hard to tell as I only did a half-arsed test. I wonder if I can just plug the coaxial audio output into a 3-way splitter that is already installed... But I bet those splitters are meant for a specific type of signal? The existing cables were for TV antenna or something and says "3-way splitter, 5-1000 MHz"

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Take this with a massive grain of salt, as it's been awhile since I've read about this stuff.  But if I remember, the is a difference between audio coax and standard coax, but it tends to only manifest over long runs.  Cables designed for audio have better shielding, can carry more load and a wider frequency range.  But that's only noticeable past a certain run length.  A short standard cable will be almost indistinguishable from a short "audio" cable.

 

So if you're using standard coax through the walls, the quality could vary greatly depending on how far the run inside the wall/ceiling is. 

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Yeah, that's what I have heard as well. I was told I would be good under 10 meters, and maybe under 20, but it could easily be more than 10m of cable to my bedroom.

 

Got the projector mounted to the wall today. Thing is taking shape. Tomorrow I'll fine tune the image position and measure the screen for cutting. Also strangely I noticed that while the audio coming from the projector isn't any good by itself, it can actually enhance the sound in the room if it also plays in addition to the speakers (but I'm using the near-field speakers temporarily and they are not that well positioned so it might be only in this case). The projector is pretty much hanging above my head when I'm sitting on the couch.

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So with all these new consoles coming out with their fancy HDMI and lack of analog sound output, I thought maybe I'd replace my stereo receiver with an A/V-receiver, so I could have just the one HDMI cable to my television. Then I started thinking about input lag, and did some googling, and apparently everyone recommends hooking consoles directly to the TV because HDMI receivers add so much delay to the video. Is this common knowledge, or no longer a problem or what? If I get a new HDMI receiver, how much of an input lag can I expect?

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I'm guessing you would have to look up the specific lag for a specific receiver... I actually forgot to do that with my HDMI switch, but I haven't noticed any lag so far.

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So with all these new consoles coming out with their fancy HDMI and lack of analog sound output, I thought maybe I'd replace my stereo receiver with an A/V-receiver, so I could have just the one HDMI cable to my television. Then I started thinking about input lag, and did some googling, and apparently everyone recommends hooking consoles directly to the TV because HDMI receivers add so much delay to the video. Is this common knowledge, or no longer a problem or what? If I get a new HDMI receiver, how much of an input lag can I expect?

 

I would say there is a massive amount of variance based on each AV receiver, and how much it does to the video feed.  If it's a receiver that actually tries to improve or uprez a signal, you'll definitely pick up some latency.  But if it's just passing the feed along, it shouldn't.  And it may not be dependent on the cost/quality of receiver.  It seems like some of the less expensive AV stuff actually handle gaming better, as they aren't trying to do as much to the signal. 

 

I've also noticed that more and more AV reviews are making it a point to talk about input latency, so it shouldn't be too hard to find one that works for you. 

 

FWIW, I've been using a Marantz SR7005 for years with a 360, PS3 and htpc, and have never noticed any input latency at all. 

 

And an update on my projector project.  The last of my parts were ordered this weekend.  Got a Chief ceiling mount for cheap off eBay (they are usually on the expensive side) and ended up needing to order a retractable screen because I changed my mind on how the room is going to be organized.  My wife made blackout curtains out of some spare material she had for the only problematic windows, and those are up.  And we're going to repaint the room, as it's just a boring white right now.  We've wanted to repaint for a bit, figured as long as we're going to all this trouble to move all the furniture around, might as well paint now.  Hopefully by late next week the room will be completely finished! 

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You are certainly moving faster than me, but I don't have a wife to push me so I took it really slow building this, with various in-progress stuff and garbage lying around on the floors :)

 

I just finished applying the last coat of paint to the screen, and hopefully will hang it up in a few days or so. I still haven't got any material for the black borders, but I'm thinking that I'll try it on without any permanent damage to the wall, and if it looks really ugly I may just stick with projecting on the brown wall for a while.

 

On another note, I've been noticing that whenever there are really highly saturated blues on screen, they really stand out awkwardly. I wonder if projector calibration is something I could handle myself (being somewhat red-green colorblind) or if I should get someone professional to do it (not sure anyone even does that here)... I once tried messing with the color settings while looking at BioShock (lots of blue and other colors as well), but I could only improve the situation marginally.

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I'm moving fast because I have a deadline :P  My inlaws are coming up for an early Christmas around the 19th, and my wife is very, very insistent that this project be done before they arrive.  My current screen is just suspended from the ceiling at the end of the room, with the screen sandwiched between a couple of boards to keep it tight, another board screwed to the bottom for weight and some hooks and metal wire suspending it all.  It works, but isn't particularly attractive with the lights on.  I could have saved some money on the retractable screen if I was patient and went bargain hunting, but I really didn't have that kind of time. 

 

I'm very hesitant to pay for a professional calibration.  They tend to cost a fair amount, and I have so much doubt that it will be worth it.  Yet everyone who is really into home theater raves about how much it's worth it.  I did buy a calibration Blu-Ray, the Disney World of Wonder.  I got it off eBay a few bucks cheaper than that Amazon link, don't know how easy it would be to find for you.  There are also some homebrew calibration discs you can burn yourself at the AVS forums.  I tried them, but it was kind of intimidating.  I don't know much about calibrating a projector or display, and from what I read, the Disney one does a really good job of explaining what each test does and what you should be looking for, so it doubles as an education in basic calibration.

 

If you're a little colorblind, you could still find a calibration disc, and then just ask a friend to come over and help.  The little bit of messing around with both video and audio calibration I've done, I had my wife making the decisions about what looked and sounded good, as I trust her eyes and ears more than mine. 

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Just tried MotorStorm with the new screen. Feels like a resolution upgrade from the brown wall I projected on until now!

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My monitor is connected to a Marantz receiver. I would definitely notice input lag when using the mouse etc. but it's non-existent. AFAIK my receiver doesn't do anything to the image apart from passing it through.

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Ok, marked the first holes for mounting the screen. No going back now, will drill some holes into my wall tomorrow morning.

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So, I've been spending the last few days working on my HTPC library. I've got XBMC totally running with a great skin and a handful of nice addons, plus I'm ripping my entire DVD and Blu-Ray collection from scratch to support subtitles and maximum resolution and acceptable bitrate for any available content. I've been using MakeMKV, which turns out to be an amazing piece of software for dumping the files from physical media and stripping it of copy protection. Best of all, MakeMKV is free in the beta period, which is awesome. Next step is encoding it using Handbrake so each movie doesn't take 30GB/6GB a pop (Blu-Ray/DVD), which is sure to take forever. Even still, I've already enjoyed the benefits of a fully digital library. Most importantly, I can neatly put away all my stuff on a shelf and have it be a big display piece, while my HTPC does all the lifting. My HTPC acts as a server, so I can watch my stuff from anywhere in the house (which is great, because my girlfriend hasn't watched much of my really good stuff so now it's all readily available).

 

Anyways, that's my only "building a home theater" thing lately. Can't afford a nice new receiver or projector, so I'm making the most out of what I already have.

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Ok, marked the first holes for mounting the screen. No going back now, will drill some holes into my wall tomorrow morning.

 

How did the screen mounting end up going?

 

My living room is almost done.  We repainted it this weekend, went from white to a reddish/purplish/brown color.  It's a lot more attractive in person than that sounds.  I don't know if it made a difference in blacks/contrast the way some guys insist.  I was too tired after everything else to make a real judgement.  The projector is ceiling mounted, power run to ceiling, hdmi cables run through the ceiling/wall, so it's all nice and clean looking.  The retractable screen is supposed to be in on Tuesday, will probably get it installed on Wednesday after work. 

 

Feels like I need a vacation from my hobby though, all we did this weekend was work on that room.  My wife is a badass though.  She did all the work in the attic running wires, as it's a bit of a nightmare up there moving around and she's a lot lighter and more nimble than I am.  It would have taken me twice as long to do it, as I'm always terrified of plummeting through the ceiling, and so move super slow and careful when I do have to go up there.

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I got it mounted using 4 mirror mounts (the kind of clips that hold it from below and above). I saw it wasn't straight enough so I thought a while about how to make it straighter and ended up doing my first idea with magnets (and tiny metal plates glued to wall). Worked out great I think but I may need to add a few more magnets - currently have 4 in corners and 2 near center. In the end I could probably have used just magnets, but seems safer to let the couple of mirror mounts bear the weight. Today started adding the black velvet border and that is a pain in the ass to do, plus the velvet somehow produces unbelievable amounts of lint (if that's the right word) and gives some black color to everything it touches. The first border is done, looks ok.

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The magnets are actually a rather brilliant idea!

 

My retractable screen showed up this afternoon, and the whole evening was spent getting it hung up and wired in.  Rolled it down for the first time, which was awesome, and my wife says, "Something about it doesn't look right."  I try to be an optimist, and insisted it was just because it was different than the other screen we had up.  NOPE!  The screen is too short.  It's the right width, but it's 4.5 inches too short, which means that the aspect ratio is off.

 

I went with this company in part because they are supposed to have legendary customer service.  I guess I get to find out in the morning. 

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That sucks, I hope they'll replace it.

My screen is finally done (mostly, maybe only some small adjustments needed)! some of the magnets tore off (I had them superglued to screen), but thankfully none have come off after regluing.post-6047-0-96626700-1386801032_thumb.jpg

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That looks awesome.  It honestly looks as nice as most of the fixed frame screens you can go out and buy.  Nice job!

 

Great news on my screen, within an hour of contacting the company they got back to me and said they were in the process of building me a new screen and would have it shipped out tomorrow, so I should have the replacement by Monday.  I had a custom size made, as the size I wanted was between two of their standard sizes, and the next size up was literally too big for the room.  It's probably some of the best customer service I've ever seen in a company.  It's a Da-Lite screen that I bought through AV Science.  It's the first time I've bought anything from AVS.  I've used their forums for years and always read good things about their customer service, and they have totally lived up to their reputation.

 

Here are a couple of pics of the screen.  The first one is the temp screen I had hung up, and the walls that were textured but not painted yet.  Second picture is with the new retractable screen and painted walls.  I'd pull back and show the whole room, but behind me it's an absolute disaster from all the tools and supplies laying around from mounting the projector, mounting the screen and painting. 

 

Edit: I spoilered the pictures as they are showing up HUGE.

 

post-33601-0-56870500-1386817596_thumb.jpg

 

post-33601-0-55536500-1386817622_thumb.jpg

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So, after more than a year, I was mostly happy with my projector setup, even though it ended up being a bit more noisy than I expected. Also I ended up leaving the projector on for more time than was probably sensible, even having it turned on days when I was mostly listening music through the computer for which the projector was the only screen.

 

So the lamp exploded more than a month ago (maybe because of my abuse, maybe because of power fluctuations, maybe because of a defect, who knows). I ordered a new one and it arrived broken. Yesterday I found out I'll at least get the money back. I ordered another one from AliExpress, which arrived two days ago, but required some more tinkering to get it installed. Turned out there was more broken than the lamp. I gave up hope and ordered a new projector -- the exact same model, since the newer model has a higher input lag of ~50ms (up from ~25ms) and I need to keep it mostly the same to keep physical stuff in place.

 

Then I discovered that the cause of error on the old projector may be the lamp driver -- it had some burnt components. It's now being fixed and tomorrow I'll get to see whether the new lamp and the lamp driver work. I hope I didn't screw anything up while messing about with the insides of the projector. Also today I got the new projector I ordered. Took only 1.5 days compared to the two weeks it took me to get the first broken lamp and the month it took to get the second lamp -- next time I'm going to have some back-up lamps nearby, just in case.

 

So tomorrow morning/noonish I'm going to have a test -- if I get the fixed lamp driver and it works, I'll probably return the unopened replacement projector. If not, I'll "write off" the original and keep the new one (while also having a back-up lamp from the old one).

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Maybe I'll write up some more thoughts on my first year of home theater after having a picture again. But so far it has been awesome for me to be able to watch movies on a relatively big screen. I don't have 5.1 sound or anything, which I never cared about in movies, even though I really liked 3D sound in games in the Aureal days.

 

The projector is a bit noisy but you get used to it. I even got used to using the computer from couch using the big screen, but I think I skipped doing some things (like programming cool stuff at home) because I wasn't really comfortable. So for the future I'm looking into keeping the main computer in the office room and streaming games to a smaller box connected to the big screen.

 

For the last month and a half I've really missed being able to see movies at home (I don't want to see them on small screens any more) and I've went to the cinema a lot more (there was one week when I went every day).

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