The Big LucasArts Playthrough

[syntheticgerbil]

Okay, those less fun parts I was anticipating are here now. Jesus Christ I am really struggling with this fighting thing. It sucks so bad.

Yeah, you've just gotta try to talk your way through multiple scenarios or have the correct disguises. You can quick save with Alt 1 at the beginning of a conversation and reload with Crtl 1 in ScummVM. I've been doing that so much because for some reason Last Crusade makes it so I can't save during most of the game, but Scumm enforces it. I swear most Lucasarts games tend to let you save anywhere.

But it is possible to finish the game with never fighting. The mechanics do suck though. I have been completing the fights during my point hoarding by ignoring the blocking, moving back one space and punching a guard in the head or stomach when he walks towards me. Then repeat that. This move pretty much ensures your power meter will be high enough for maximum damage every time you throw a punch and they are open. For harder guards I usually have to try over and over to win by dumb luck, since they block too much. Often when I run out of space to move back with I start mashing buttons and I win through soft hits even though my health will be depleted to some extent.

 

Luckily in the castle there is a first aid kit hidden at some point should you need it.

 

On my playthrough I have made it to the final temple, but I'll probably get back to it in a few days. I did more point hoarding during the plane/airport/zeppelin section for the series score to try to get that 800 at the end. If I did my math right I should be good for a perfect score in all categories (506 max is supposed to be the maximum current game score). The airport chapter was just obnoxious. Trying to get through the zeppelin maze without getting caught for the points at the end was mind numbing because all of the guards are randomized as far as I can tell. So if I restarted the part from the beginning, most of the guards would be in separate places. How stupid. The biplane part is a bunch of no fun, but I got all the points by taking the path of shooting down the 18 nazi planes with quick saves. Never did that as a kid.

 

But for maximum current game score, you skip the zeppelin completely and crash your biplane on purpose so you can tediously go through 7 checkpoints doing one thing or another with every guard. That's no fun at all. I feel like the maximum score in a possible playthrough should reflect the most fun you could have, but I guess not.

 

The checkpoint guards are incredibly boring. I somehow remember Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade as having unique dialogue for each character you must get past, but this is simply not true. All of your dialogue for every gate guard is the same every time until you find the one dialogue path that works for them. For most guards in the castle your dialogue also tends to be the same, but at least you can talk to the drunk guard early on to get a few clues on what might make a certain guard tick. The checkpoint guards are just a matter of picking every dialogue option and hoping a fight doesn't start or knowing who will accept a bribe and who won't. If you fail, reload. I just gave up caring because I don't want to deal with reading all of the same dialogue over and over since the dialogue skip button in this game doesn't speed anything up and you just wait, so I just checked the choices on Thunderpeel's guide.

 

Playing through this game again is just making me realize how little game there actually is in The Last Crusade. It starts out pretty strong but tends to devolve into systematic elements that are copied and pasted over and over throughout the rest of the game. You can skip major sequences by doing certain actions, thus making the game incredibly short. There are two major parts so far that are solved by failing, but it isn't entirely obvious that was what you were supposed to do. I do appreciate the amount of solutions in this game but many are easy to overlook if you did not get the right item much earlier in the game, such as pixel hunting for random books in the library. Also there's very little to click on unlike other LucasArts adventures and often if you look at the 2-3 hotspots in any given room, Indy will just say, "I don't see anything interesting about it." Did someone not have enough time to write? What happened here?

 

Either way, I can see how Last Crusade led LucasArts closer to the philosophy of not being able to get stuck and never putting you in a dead end situation. Udvarnoky, you said there were parts where dead ends were possible, but I am not sure there are any in this game. The only situation I can think of is if you were to have low health and save right before you face with a guard that you can't talk your way through (or give the item to or did not have said item), causing you to be stuck in a fight you can't win.

[Zeusthecat]

Okay, so I finally made it through the castle. That was some frustrating shit but thanks to ThunderPeel's fighting tips I was able to get through all the fights. After talking my way past the first main guard I thought it would be possible to talk my way through most of the other fights but I found that seemingly impossible. I got both the servant and Nazi uniforms but I tried every conversation option with all of the outfits I had and never got past any other guard without having to fight. What the fuck?

 

After making my way through all of the hallways and beating up guards I got to Biff. I tried to fight him several times and realized there was no way I was going to beat him. At this point the fighting had me so frustrated that I just decided to look up tips for beating him. As soon as I typed it into Google I saw something about getting him drunk and thought I knew what I had to do. So I went back down to the drunk guard and knocked him out to get his stein. I filled that up and brought it to Biff but it had no effect on him. As soon as I saw that I knew I needed to use the trophy that the dog was guarding to get enough beer to get Biff drunk. It seemed pretty obvious at this point that I needed the meat downstairs to distract the dog. So I went back down to the kitchen to try to get the meat and saw that it was too hot. I immediately poured the beer on the coals (seemed obvious enough) which put the fire out and enabled me to get the meat.

 

The rest lined up nicely and I was able to get past Biff and rescue my dad. When I was approached by the Nazis after breaking my dad out I gave them the old book instead of the Grail Diary and ended up tied up in the room with the secret exit in the fireplace. After scooting over to the statue and using it to cut the ropes I escaped from the castle and went to the airport. From here I tried and failed to fly the biplane and then stopped playing once I got into the zeppelin, which apparently just turned around to head back to Germany.

 

I never did end up finding the combination to the vault in the castle so after I stopped playing I looked that up and saw that I was supposed to give the painting to the guard outside of that room. I guess that wasn't necessary to beat the game anyways so oh well. I'm also curious about the biplane thing. I might reload a save to try that some more since I would imagine using that is in some way advantageous to taking the zeppelin but I have yet to read any hints related to the biplane/zeppelin or anything past that. At this point my opinion of this game has lowered quite a bit. The fighting is fucking stupid and the controls suck really bad. It is really unfortunate that the puzzles were downplayed so much in the castle in favor of the fighting. The little bit of puzzle solving here was okay but it was completely overshadowed by the awful fighitng. Ugh.

 

Edit: And syntheticgerbil, I'm also skipping over most of your post(s) regarding your progress for now in case there are spoilers so I apologize if I sound stupid repeating anything you've already said. I'll go back and read them later.

[Tanukitsune]

Hmm, I think you have to fight more on the zeppelin? I do have a vague memory of fighting guards there. 

[syntheticgerbil]

After talking my way past the first main guard I thought it would be possible to talk my way through most of the other fights but I found that seemingly impossible. I got both the servant and Nazi uniforms but I tried every conversation option with all of the outfits I had and never got past any other guard without having to fight. What the fuck?

 

The problem I ran in to is if you ended up fighting even just one guard before hand, suddenly they would no longer believe your story even if you chose the right dialogue. Pretty ridiculous set up.

 

 

I never did end up finding the combination to the vault in the castle so after I stopped playing I looked that up and saw that I was supposed to give the painting to the guard outside of that room. I guess that wasn't necessary to beat the game anyways so oh well. I'm also curious about the biplane thing. I might reload a save to try that some more since I would imagine using that is in some way advantageous to taking the zeppelin but I have yet to read any hints related to the biplane/zeppelin or anything past that.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how important getting in to the vault is really. I did it for the first time in this playthrough but didn't see any real advantage outside of the points. You did end up skipping Berlin which is basically a one note fun section by giving the old book, but nothing major is missed outside of the opportunity to punch hitler.

 

The biplane is another similar possibility to skip the whole zeppelin sequence and later a bunch of checkpoint guards if you fly right. Personally, I think the game flows better by getting on the zeppelin.

[Zeusthecat]

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade completed! Total play time was about 5.5 hours.

I ended up trying the biplane some more when I got back on today and managed to randomly get it to work by flipping all the switches and then mashing buttons until the gauges went up; then I hit the red button. I got past about 3 or 4 planes before I was shot down and then made my way through all of the roadblocks/fights until I got to the grail temple. I had gotten much better at fighting by this point so it was fairly easy to get through all of the roadblocks but it was still a pretty lame segment.

After seeing my dad get shot I proceeded to the first trial. I saw nothing to interact with in the saw blade room and tried over and over to get through thinking that I would be able to duck somehow but I kept getting massacred. I finally resorted to using a hint and saw that I needed to click on a specific lighter spot on the ground to get through, kind of a stupid solution if you ask me. The next trial was much easier and there was no hint needed. Just had to step only on letters that made up "GEHOVA". The third trial pissed me off. I went up and down that goddamn ledge and clicked all over the ledge on the opposite side and kept falling in. Even after looking up the location I was supposed to click in ThunderPeel's guide I still kept falling. After a lot of trial and error, it turned out that I needed to come straight out of the previous room without moving at all and click in the exact right spot on the opposite side. This finally got me through and left me feeling quite irritated. It's too bad 2 out of the 3 trials were so shitty, I came into it thinking there would be a decent puzzle here.

With the third trial complete, I finally made my way to the grail room. I remembered from the movie that the real grail was supposed to be a shitty, old, unassuming wooden chalice of some sort but from the descriptions of the grails in the room there were several that looked like probable candidates. So I saved right before making the selection and watched in enjoyment as Indy drank from one and got so old he exploded. I chose poorly. After a few more attempts I got the right one and finished off the game.

I have very mixed feelings about this game. On one hand there were some good puzzles up until the castle. On the other hand, nothing from the castle on really offered much in the way of puzzles. It was all just fighting and shallow stuff.

Edit: Just went back and read the other posts now that I'm done. It seems I took kind of a lame route and maybe missed some more interesting stuff. Oh well. I'm glad to have played this game. If nothing else it will at least make me appreciate the improvements in the following games.

[syntheticgerbil]

Yeah, you definitely will feel very different about Fate of Atlantis.

 

Choosing the right grail is part of a copy protection scheme that requires you to write down the names given to you from the wall etchings in the catacombs and then reference the description given in the grail diary printed with the game. The grail diary is lengthy and rather hard to read because of the sloppy handwriting, so I would actually be curious if anyone who played the game when it initially came out even understood when to reference the printed diary.

 

Maybe the painting in the safe is a part of this but I have no clue as all Indy said is that it is glowing. Maybe it's a randomized element where sometimes the game will show a grail painting that is not glowing.

[Roderick]

MI2:

 

I'm in a chapter 2 lull now, flinging about between Scabb, Booty and Phatt island, trying to find the map pieces. I've gotten some progress here and there, but there's an overall sense that I'm not hitting upon the right thing yet. Here's the thing I've got currently in my head:

I think I need to get the cook out of Elaine's kitchen to get the fish, to get the fishing pole, to get the map piece from the cliff on Booty island. No idea how. I also haven't figured out how to open Rapp's filthy oven door. I think if I just bang my head against the wall enough, the solution will present itself.

[syntheticgerbil]

You've got it but you need to try goofing around some more.

[Zeusthecat]

MI2:

 

I'm in a chapter 2 lull now, flinging about between Scabb, Booty and Phatt island, trying to find the map pieces. I've gotten some progress here and there, but there's an overall sense that I'm not hitting upon the right thing yet.

 

Best of luck to you on figuring these out. I definitely struggled for awhile on a few of the pieces but when I did stumble across the solutions they ended up seeming pretty reasonable.

[Udvarnoky]

Choosing the right grail is part of a copy protection scheme that requires you to write down the names given to you from the wall etchings in the catacombs and then reference the description given in the grail diary printed with the game. The grail diary is lengthy and rather hard to read because of the sloppy handwriting, so I would actually be curious if anyone who played the game when it initially came out even understood when to reference the printed diary.

 

Maybe the painting in the safe is a part of this but I have no clue as all Indy said is that it is glowing. Maybe it's a randomized element where sometimes the game will show a grail painting that is not glowing.

 

Actually, Last Crusade originally came with a real copy-protection where you had to key in values upfront a la Monkey Island.  If you entered in the incorrect code the game would proceed but during the cutscene where Indy meets Donovan, Indy will fail to translate the grail tablet, effectively condemning you to a demo mode of sorts.

 

The Grail Diary only functions as copy-protection incidentally.  Like you said, you're supposed to reference it for the wall etchings in the catacombs (a description of the material, I believe) as well as the painting in the castle vault (this tells you whether or not the grail glows).  With those two pieces of information and the physical diary you will know the correct grail to select at the end.  Zeusthecat was able to accomplish it through trial-and-error, but in the original game, with its original interpreter, saved games are barred once you reach the grail temple.  (Similarly, you couldn't save in Maniac Mansion once you reached the inner lab because "the meteor is now in control of your computer" or something.)

[Patrick R]

Only just realized that, for some reason, the version of Dark Forces I downloaded from Steam has me on God Mode on default. So part of the reason it felt so primitive and boring was that I literally could not be damaged. Lasers even bounce off me, so if I run up to a Stormtrooper his blasts will only kill himself.

[syntheticgerbil]

Actually, Last Crusade originally came with a real copy-protection where you had to key in values upfront a la Monkey Island.  If you entered in the incorrect code the game would proceed but during the cutscene where Indy meets Donovan, Indy will fail to translate the grail tablet, effectively condemning you to a demo mode of sorts.

Oh was it a code wheel? I have a cheapo published version from Paradise with the diary and manual, I didn't realize it may be different.

 

The Grail Diary only functions as copy-protection incidentally.  Like you said, you're supposed to reference it for the wall etchings in the catacombs (a description of the material, I believe) as well as the painting in the castle vault (this tells you whether or not the grail glows).  With those two pieces of information and the physical diary you will know the correct grail to select at the end.  Zeusthecat was able to accomplish it through trial-and-error, but in the original game, with its original interpreter, saved games are barred once you reach the grail temple.  (Similarly, you couldn't save in Maniac Mansion once you reached the inner lab because "the meteor is now in control of your computer" or something.)

I must have brute forced my way through finding the right grail when I was young, because our Last Crusade copy was pirated. I don't vividly remember reloading a save at the very beginning of the trials every time, but I do remember choosing a bunch of cups at random until I won the game. That sounds annoying, I'm glad I don't remember that.

[Udvarnoky]

Oh was it a code wheel? I have a cheapo published version from Paradise with the diary and manual, I didn't realize it may be different.

 

I don't think it was a code wheel, I'm sure Monkey Island pioneered that one.  I'd have to go consult my boxed EGA copy.  I know the copy-protection got dropped for the Classic Adventures version as did Loom and Monkey Island 1's, so it's likely re-releases do not have it.  Unlike the first two SCUMM games, those copy-protections came right at boot and presumably were trivial for a programmer to make get bypassed.  (I guess they didn't think to do with Maniac Mansion what they did when they included the game in DOTT, which is simply keep the security door open.)

[Roderick]

I still have those wheels at home... glad I don't need them anymore to play a video game.

 

Well, goofing around sure paid off in MI2! I got a ton of things done and two map pieces to boot. I like this part of the game (who am I kidding, I like everything so far), because there's so much to do and no matter what, you always feel like you're accomplishing at least something. I found a crazy pump at the top of the waterfall! Curious what it'll do, hopefully to get me across the river to the closed-off part of the island.

[toblix]

Okay, guess I might as well ask for Sam & Max hints, since the UHS thing isn't available on the web, and I hate walkthroughs...

Max is stuck in the «Dunk the Beast» tank at Gator Golf, and since I'm able to leave him and travel around, the solution may involve other locations. I've discovered the fishing place, where I'll have to loosen the fish thing with something to get up on the twine ball(but after freeing Max,) and the twine ball itself, including a museum where there's nothing of interest, unless I've forgotten something I found there ... I've gotten various items from Snuckey's, such as a bunch of minigames which I'm assuming are not critical to the game itself, a cup and a rasp. I've also built a extendable hand magnet thing, which I'll be able to use to reach remote magnetic items. Also a stiltwalker's costume, golf score card and the bucket of golf balls. Currently I'm going from location to location, seeing if I missed something. At least when Max is gone he won't be blocking all the hot spots.

 

Wait, what.

I was at the twine museum when a memory flashed before my eyes, and I retrieved a ring from the twine using the magnet arm ... did I just skip the part where I found out about that, or did I miss it?

[thorn]

Okay, guess I might as well ask for Sam & Max hints, since the UHS thing isn't available on the web, and I hate walkthroughs...

Max is stuck in the «Dunk the Beast» tank at Gator Golf, and since I'm able to leave him and travel around, the solution may involve other locations. I've discovered the fishing place, where I'll have to loosen the fish thing with something to get up on the twine ball(but after freeing Max,) and the twine ball itself, including a museum where there's nothing of interest, unless I've forgotten something I found there ... I've gotten various items from Snuckey's, such as a bunch of minigames which I'm assuming are not critical to the game itself, a cup and a rasp. I've also built a extendable hand magnet thing, which I'll be able to use to reach remote magnetic items. Also a stiltwalker's costume, golf score card and the bucket of golf balls. Currently I'm going from location to location, seeing if I missed something. At least when Max is gone he won't be blocking all the hot spots.

 

Wait, what.

I was at the twine museum when a memory flashed before my eyes, and I retrieved a ring from the twine using the magnet arm ... did I just skip the part where I found out about that, or did I miss it?

I never know whether spoiler tags are needed or not. I've written up some very vague hints below.

 

Gator Golf: You need an item that you've likely already picked up, then you need to think laterally about the setting.

Mood Ring: I think it's possible to find the ring before you realise why you need it. That part of the game can be played in any order, so it's impossible for me to say whether you've met the character who asks for it.

 

 

And here are some slightly less vague hints, but still not solutions:

Gator Golf: You need the bucket of fish from World of Fish.

Mood Ring: It belongs to Shuv-Oohl, the Mole Man. If you don't know who that is, you need to do some more exploration.

 

 

And here are the solutions, if you're really stuck:

Gator Golf: Swap the fish with the golf balls. Pick up the golf club and hit fish in front of the gators until they line up and form a path across the water. Think

.

Mood Ring: First you should meet Doug Moleman in the Tunnel of Love (do I need to explain that puzzle too?). Then go to the Mystery Vortex and walk through the big mirror. Turn the switches on the magnets so that the light is the same colour as one of the doors in the main room of the Vortex. Try walking through the door; if you don't find Shuv-Oohl, change the colours to a different door.

 

 

Meanwhile, hurrah that someone in this thread is playing a game that I've actually played and remember!

[Ben X]

And here are the solutions, if you're really stuck:

 

Gator Golf: Swap the fish with the golf balls. Pick up the golf club and hit fish in front of the gators until they line up and form a path across the water. Think

.

 

Wrong movie!

[Udvarnoky]

I still have those wheels at home... glad I don't need them anymore to play a video game.

 

And even if you did, there are awesome people.

[toblix]

Thanks, thorn. I looked at the first hint, but didn't really get any further...

When I look at Max, he's angry. Pushing the button repeatedly does nothing, though. Am I supposed to piss him off, or is that just a red herring? There's a door in the glass cage, but I can't even look at it ... what a weird puzzle. Am I supposed to (get Max to) break the glass instead of just climbing out? Oh, I discovered I could make an extendable cup thing as well.

[syntheticgerbil]

Well, goofing around sure paid off in MI2! I got a ton of things done and two map pieces to boot. I like this part of the game (who am I kidding, I like everything so far), because there's so much to do and no matter what, you always feel like you're accomplishing at least something.

Yeah when I replayed that whole section when doing the SE I realized the same thing. It's definitely some of the best non-linear adventure design ever. You're just in this huge overworld of puzzles and many of the things you interact with are important in some way or another.

[thorn]

Wrong movie!

 

Wow. That was a total brain fart on my part.

 

And yet a Youtube search for 'Man With The Golden Gun alligators' gave me that result. Goes to show that Google is smarter than I am.

[toblix]

Ooooooooh. So in Sam & Max, apparently a thing can exist in the game that you can't look at. For some reason I thought all hotspots would trigger a cursor change, and have been using the eye for pixel hunting. The glass cage door, though, can be clicked with the PICK UP or USE cursors, but not with the EYE. So, weird.

[syntheticgerbil]

Hmm, is that so? That seems broken, but maybe I am wrong. Are you using ScummVM? If so maybe there's a bug with their emulation.

[toblix]

Yeah, I'm on ScummVM. When using the eye icon on the door, there's no hover effect, and clicking does nothing. The walk, pick up and use pointers both hover and click as intended, though. Could be a ScummVM bug, a game bug, or just a missing hilarious description for the door.

[Ben X]

Wow. That was a total brain fart on my part.

 

And yet a Youtube search [REDACTED] gave me that result. Goes to show that Google is smarter than I am.

 

Ahem, spoiler.

 

Toblix, vague directional hint:

 

You don't need to use or interact with Max to rescue him, just get Sam over there