Jake

Idle Thumbs 103: A Person-Shaped Thing is a Person

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nintendo is for babies that haven't been playing the same nintendo games for the last 20 years, and finally the game baby market is not nintendo any more, it's the smart phone or tablet and that is why nintendo will either have to finally start to make some hard core games or just die from the oversaturation of baby games on the tablet/smartphone market 

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nintendo is for babies that haven't been playing the same nintendo games for the last 20 years, and finally the game baby market is not nintendo any more, it's the smart phone or tablet and that is why nintendo will either have to finally start to make some hard core games or just die from the oversaturation of baby games on the tablet/smartphone market 

 

Eh, that seems like a bit of an inflammatory statement. While I personally have become disinterested in Nintendo's established franchises I think there are a lot of long time gamers that still find a lot to enjoy from Nintendo, especially on the 3DS. And what do you mean by 'hard core games'? I'm not sure that I really understand what constitutes a hard core game. In my opinion, those puppies in Nintendogs were pretty fucking hard core.

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The Stalking Head is being a troll, maybe for comedy purposes, but it seems a little off in this thread. Anyway, Pikmin 3 is definitely a mature title, but can there be any doubt that this system is just waiting, waiting with baited breath, for the next Mario from Team Galaxy? If they pull off another 'Galaxy', as in, a redefining platform experience, then even with that single game, they've got it. Viability, redemption, worth, the works.

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Also, I'm glad that Nintendo is doing more Nintendo Directs instead of an E3 press conference because Nintendo Directs are hilariously kitschy and awkward.

 

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HE'S WEARING GLOVES FOR THE UNBOXING CEREMONY! Why didn't they just cut out the awkward silences at the start? No reason other than to troll Iwata. Face chop!

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But probably we'll get Geist 2.

I would totally play Geist 2.

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The Stalking Head is being a troll, maybe for comedy purposes, but it seems a little off in this thread. Anyway, Pikmin 3 is definitely a mature title, but can there be any doubt that this system is just waiting, waiting with baited breath, for the next Mario from Team Galaxy? If they pull off another 'Galaxy', as in, a redefining platform experience, then even with that single game, they've got it. Viability, redemption, worth, the works.

 

He's not being a troll, he's just making his point in a way that's a little juvenile (NOT A JOKE ABOUT BABIES). I wouldn't state it the same way, but I don't disagree with him. Nintendo is the game console for families. You, me, Wii, etc. Even those weird WiiU commercials had 7 year olds in them. It's supposed to be wholesome and family friendly, and the games Nintendo makes are by and large rated E or on some occasions T (Skyward Sword is PEGI 12+). I absolutely think Nintendo is trapped somewhere in between making fan service games and making games that aren't "Kids Games" but are for kids. I also agree that daddy's phone and mommy's tablet have way more entertainment hours available in them, for a less expensive price in a multi use device. Games are ubiquitous now. People who don't play games play games, they're everywhere.

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yeah you're right i was being a bit inflammatory but i am just trying to use the native vocabulary, but seriously nintendo haven't really done anything new in years, people say that mario galaxy was brilliant but how long did it take for them to change mario into something with a bit of originality? (i can't be bothered to research that but it is basically rhetorical) to me nintendo is the "my first video game" company they may be polished and well made but they are all basic and child orientated.

 

I am a very budget orientated gamer and nintendo haven't broken they "buy the console" threshold of being worth the money in years and really handheld games are such a compromise most of the time to me that they aren't worth buying, the DS or 3DS have been the most tempting of handheld consoles to me but have never broken the threshold.

 

it is hard to define hard core games but basically nintendo has none (that i can think of), maybe i would say that the more complex and hard to learn it is the more it is a hard core game, perhaps a good approximation would be that snakes and ladders=casual chess=hard core so what i am saying is that nintendo games are like snakes and ladders (or shoots and ladders i think in america) 

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Nintendo games have been by and large 'family friendly' for most of their existence, I don't think that is something that started with the Wii although I do agree that the non-gamer demographic has been a much larger focus since the Wii.

 

I guess I just take issue with the statement that Nintendo doesn't make hardcore games. I think it is kind of a meaningless term. In my opinion there are some very simple games that many people would consider very hardcore and some fairly complex games that many people would consider baby games. Plus, I don't think 'hardcore' and 'family friendly' are mutually exclusive. I do agree with the overall tone of your statement though and I feel the same way when I think about purchasing the WiiU.

 

Also, sorry if I come off as a little bullish over the 'hardcore' thing, it is a term that I find very interesting and I think it's fun to debate.

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don't apologise it's cool, i was in a make a statement and wait for a response mood, so my bad :) plus i play loads of casual games so it isn't actually the existence of "casual" games on the nintendo that made me lose interest in it, it is just that it is the only type of game they make and if they have any "hardcore games" (actually i totally want monster hunter and that may qualify as hardcore) they would be better on any other console or PC

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if they have any "hardcore games" (actually i totally want monster hunter and that may qualify as hardcore) they would be better on any other console or PC

 

That is exactly how I feel and brings me back full circle to why I am so disappointed that they made such an underpowered console. Even if processing power doesn't matter to some people I imagine most people would choose to play a version of a game with better graphics and controls if they had the choice.

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That is exactly how I feel and brings me back full circle to why I am so disappointed that they made such an underpowered console. Even if processing power doesn't matter to some people I imagine most people would choose to play a version of a game with better graphics and controls if they had the choice.

yeah that is weird, they could have basically re-released the XBOX 360 with a nintendo box and it would have been better and that thing is 8 years old (i realise that is technically wrong but not by much)

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That is exactly how I feel and brings me back full circle to why I am so disappointed that they made such an underpowered console. Even if processing power doesn't matter to some people I imagine most people would choose to play a version of a game with better graphics and controls if they had the choice.

Well, i could point out that PC versions of cross-platform games have pretty consistently been vastly superior to their console counterparts, but that doesn't stop 360 versions from just as consistently being the best selling versions of those games. (It is my understanding that even something like Battlefield 3 actually sold best on the 360, and there is a shocking discrepancy between the console and PC versions of that game.)

I mean, and this whole argument only matters if Nintendo has third party support to begin with, which they probably don't. That new CoD game that was just announced? It's looking like it's probably not going to come out on the Wii U. (That's probably really bad for Nintendo, that might be as big as EA bailing on the Dreamcast, to further those parallels. I mean, it's not like people weren't playing CoD games on Nintendo consoles, allegedly those horrible Wii ports of CoD games were big business.)

 

As for Stalkinghead's comments, I don't really want to get too into this angle on the conversation, because i'm afraid it's going to end up being me doing a lot of "YOUR OPINION IS WROOOOONG" like an asshole fanboy.

To keep it short though, i'll disagree primarily about how "hardcore" is being used in this discussion. I don't think Nintendo sets out to make "casual" games or "hardcore" games, they deal primarily in games that have something to offer to players of all ages and skill levels, and they've always been that way.

I'd also just advise just giving up on Nintendo's big franchises if you don't think they're doing anything interesting. (Agh! It kills me!) Mario is a big part of what Nintendo does, but that doesn't mean there's nothing else to look to in its absence. They're always doing a lot of cool things that tend to end up barely getting any attention outside of their most dedicated fans. They're kind of terrible at throwing support behind anything that hasn't already proven itself, it's a horrible bit of self-sabotage.

I think people should play Fire Emblem: Awakening, it's the best thing i've played this year.

I think people should have played Xenoblade, it was the best thing i played last year. (US copies are selling for like three hundred fucking dollars now, it's insane.)

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i had a look at a few videos of Xenoblade and it does look awesome, like someone made a good final fantasy game again and i guess i could probably get a wii for cheap but why would i pay 300 dollars for a game?

as i said i am budget orientated i just can afford every console and when one is clearly the worst it is obviously the one i would buy last, i am probably going a bit over the top with my criticism of nintendo to emphasize my point, and i basically only bought an XBOX 360 because of the dire situation PC gaming was in a the time, but now none of the next get appeal to me because they are either just PC's without any possibility of an upgrade (XBOX/PS) or some weird gimmicky toy that from a company that advertises themselves by thinking it was a good idea to proclaim the people that use their product aren't "gamers" and therefore insulting their core audience and adding fuel to my fire

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i had a look at a few videos of Xenoblade and it does look awesome, like someone made a good final fantasy game again and i guess i could probably get a wii for cheap but why would i pay 300 dollars for a game?

 

Well, it obviously wasn't selling at 300 dollars when it was available in stores. It shipped in stupidly small quantities while simultaneously being a critical darling, and so things kind of spun out of control on the resale market. It actually makes me a bit crazy, because i wish it was a game i could reasonably tell people to go check out. (Looking into it again, it looks like things have settled down, but people are still asking pretty crazy prices for US copies.)

The point i was making is just that Nintendo is, and always has been, doing a lot of cool and unexpected things off on the side. You just kind of have to be paying attention to notice it, because those games tend to come and go via pretty limited production runs without much notice.

Yeah, it kind of sucks.

At least with Nintendo embracing a digital business, there isn't going to be this crazy scarcity anymore. (FE:A also shipped in really limited quantities, but because it was on the eShop same day as its retail release, people still got to play it.)

as i said i am budget orientated i just can afford every console and when one is clearly the worst it is obviously the one i would buy last, i am probably going a bit over the top with my criticism of nintendo to emphasize my point, and i basically only bought an XBOX 360 because of the dire situation PC gaming was in a the time, but now none of the next get appeal to me because they are either just PC's without any possibility of an upgrade (XBOX/PS) or some weird gimmicky toy that from a company that advertises themselves by thinking it was a good idea to proclaim the people that use their product aren't "gamers" and therefore insulting their core audience and adding fuel to my fire

Definitely heard and understood, i was just trying to make my point in that prior post. What you're saying, it's a totally fair place to be coming from, and honestly, if you are limited by budget to choosing one platform? I wouldn't go with one of Nintendo's platforms. My feeling is that their consoles and handhelds are good secondary systems. You want them because Nintendo's games are awesome and because there's always going to be the random neat exclusive thing, but the inevitably slow drip-feed of new stuff is always going to be an insane bummer if it's all you're looking to.

As to Nintendo "insulting" its audience, Nintendo definitely has some major message problems to work out.

A lot of the things i see happening around the Wii U, the games they're announcing, the begrudging acceptance of an online ecosystem, their responsiveness to criticisms regarding the Wii U OS, the indie support they're trying to foster, these are mostly good moves. I think i see a company that is trying really hard to rebuild its relationship with core gamers.

The marketing message is wildly inconsistent with that, it depicts a Nintendo that is hopelessly out of touch and fruitlessly trying to hang onto a broader audience that they've already lost because they weren't responsive to the disruption posed by smart devices. Combined with a cursory glance of their sales figures, it can seem real dire.

Even so, allow them that shitty first year, i say. I think we'll have a clear picture of the Wii U's future after these holidays.

I have no idea if it will be a successful system, i'm probably going to lean towards no on that question, but i do believe it will probably end up being a worthwhile system. On that front, i'm pretty hopeful.

The 3DS kicks ass though, they're golden with that thing, i'm amazed that it's doing as well as it is.

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Well, i could point out that PC versions of cross-platform games have pretty consistently been vastly superior to their console counterparts, but that doesn't stop 360 versions from just as consistently being the best selling versions of those games. (It is my understanding that even something like Battlefield 3 actually sold best on the 360, and there is a shocking discrepancy between the console and PC versions of that game.

 

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with this piece of the argument because I don't think it's really an apples to apples comparison. It is absolutely true that those games are vastly superior on the PC but a decent gaming PC is much more cost prohibitive than any console. I would have loved to have originally had a gaming PC instead of a 360 but at the time that just wasn't an option due to the cost. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to assume that a lot of people were in a similar situation and bought one of the consoles because a gaming PC wasn't even an option.

 

So I really think that these games sold better on the 360 simply because it had a much larger install base. It's hard to say how different it would have been had the costs of entry been equal but I think you can get a fairly accurate picture by comparing the sales of a game like COD on the 360 vs the Wii. Despite the fact that the Wii has a larger install base than the 360 it still sold a whole hell of a lot more on the 360. Now there may be other factors at play but I am going to conclude that those facts support my argument that people will generally buy the version of a game that plays better and has better graphics. I probably should have been a little more clear that my argument only stands when comparing hardware that is priced similarly.

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Fair enough, i can't really argue against what you're saying. (In fact, i ended up predominantly as a 360 gamer this generation with your argued point as one of the reasons for it. My PC is a piece of shit.)

I feel the second part of the quoted response, the paragraph you didn't include, is still valid.

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As for how the tablet pertains to local same-system multiplayer, it's not really that interesting to me personally, i simply don't play games in that way anymore. (I strongly suspect I'm in the majority on this.)

 

I think this aspect of the wii u (same system multiplayer with the wii u tablet) was nintendo trying to replicate the mass appeal of the original wii in a new way (while simultaneously not alienating gamers) . The majority of the population is now intimately familiar with tablets and touch screens. So while you're not interested in same system multiplayer (and you're probably right, most gamers probably aren't) it could've been a cool, accessible thing to get non-gamers to buy another nintendo console, like they did with the wii. Local multiplayer is exactly the situation my non-gamer friends used their wiis. People would come over and we'd play wii bowling or mario party or something along those lines before we'd go out for the night. 

 

Nintendo just has no clue how to communicate what the hell the wii u is, so people don't know what it is or how it's used either. 

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The weird cyclical logic that's cropped up in recent years of "I want this Nintendo-exclusive game, but I don't want to buy a Nintendo console, because they don't have any games I want" is staggering to me.

 

 

(on the other hand I kind of do it myself with the Vita)

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despite being out for a while now, I've heard more than a few people exclaim surprise when someone mentions the wii-u. As in "wait when did a new wii come out?"

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I'm glad that Nintendo at least realizes that they have to start marketing the thing better. The other day all online Wiis got a post on their message boards that was basically an ad for the Wii U. That's pretty clever, and likely didn't even cost them anything to do.

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The weird cyclical logic that's cropped up in recent years of "I want this Nintendo-exclusive game, but I don't want to buy a Nintendo console, because they don't have any games I want" is staggering to me.

 

 

(on the other hand I kind of do it myself with the Vita)

one or two games does not make an entire console worth it, if there were only one or two games on the market worth playing it may be worth it, but there are literally thousands of games that are just as good as any exclusive nintendo may have.

 

to me buying a games system is an investment, meaning that the initial cost of that system should mean nothing compared to the amount of entertainment/use you will eventually get out of it, so buying just one or two games for that system makes the initial cost a large barrier, that is why the PC always wins, there are thousand of good free games for the PC let alone one you have to buy, and no only that i am using my PC right now to type this and i use it to browse the internet, to draw pictures, to make videos and basically everything else that isn't a physical activity, so that is what consoles have to compete with to get me interested in them, my life isn't any worse for not playing Xenoblade but spending money on something that isn't worth it does make my life worse (seriously i hate the idea of wasting money) so it isn't cynical to make a cost/benefit judgement it is just sensible

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Pretty much, and while you used to see a lot of platform exclusives, these days that seems to be largely limited to first-party titles and I can't say as I'm all that in love with most of those.

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