miffy495

The great Valve re-play

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Well, if you really want to know, read the combine overwiki. Basically,

the Nihilanth was like the 'central brain' type thing for the vortigaunts, it was seized by the combine to enslave the vortigaunts, and so when you killed it, you freed them. This made them mad, so they came for Earth... cue HL2

Mark Laidlaw has confirmed most of the stuff in the overwiki, but the great thing about the HL world is the little clues and vague poetic allusions in the vortigaunts' dialog pushing you towards this stuff. It's one of the things that makes Valve feel like they're not talking down to you. :tup:

I enjoy it this way. If you want a storyline stuffed down your throat, play, eh, more or less every other game.

Come on, this isn't an argument for wanting to have plot shoved down my throat, I'm just saying I don't think there's really enough in those games for one to realistically be able to draw such conclusions about what are significantly important events in the first game. That this fan speculation was eventually given a shrug and a "why not?" on a fan wiki is immaterial to the point I'm making.

I mean, all those "hints" the Vortigaunts drop can be taken to mean literally almost anything, it's the kind of vague speak you can go back to when you have a solidified story plan and say "See, we knew what we were doing all along, we're awesome!"

I'm not arguing against Valve's story-telling devices, i've been arguing for that in most of my comments. I also just think Valve shouldn't have been so deliberately vague about the things that tie HL1 to HL2, and i've always kind of suspected it came out that way because of how radically HL2 changed over the course of its development.

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So you've played the fan port of Decay, i take it?This is... Wrong, actually.

Ah, that makes a fair bit of sense, actually. Right, right, okay, got that now.

Twig;

Portal doesn't really count for me as part of the Half-Life saga. It's too remote, too disconnected.

I checked the play stats for Ep1,2 and LC. Woops. Misremembered, sorry. They're all still relatively short, but no, I'm not one of those pricks who thinks that less than X hours isn't a game. They're just very short, and my already low opinions of Half-Life don't allow me much lenience for enjoying them.

I should probably look into the HL1 expansions/what-have-you, but to be perfectly honest, I probably won't. I just don't enjoy HL enough to justify the purchase. That said, I don't know how much they are, I'll look.

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Come on, this isn't an argument for wanting to have plot shoved down my throat, I'm just saying I don't think there's really enough in those games for one to realistically be able to draw such conclusions about what are significantly important events in the first game. That this fan speculation was eventually given a shrug and a "why not?" on a fan wiki is immaterial to the point I'm making.

I mean, all those "hints" the Vortigaunts drop can be taken to mean literally almost anything, it's the kind of vague speak you can go back to when you have a solidified story plan and say "See, we knew what we were doing all along, we're awesome!"

I'm not arguing against Valve's story-telling devices, i've been arguing for that in most of my comments. I also just think Valve shouldn't have been so deliberately vague about the things that tie HL1 to HL2, and i've always kind of suspected it came out that way because of how radically HL2 changed over the course of its development.

Having just read the "HL timeline" (which actually goes against what Baconian said and is confusing in itself) I can only agree. I have no doubt that Valve must have some answers for this stuff, but when I played HL2 it wasn't at all clear what was going on, where I was, or who the people I was talking to were, or why I should care. (At least, as I remember it.)

I appreciate being made to "work" to understand something, but there's obtuse and there's obtuse.

As for Half-Life's storyline, I'm surprised no-one has leapt in to flesh it out a bit more, because (to be fair) this is what happens. (Spoilers!)

  • A scientific experiment goes wrong and unleashes aliens into a lab belonging to the Black Mesa corporation.
  • One scientist fights his way out of this, through endless scientists who all look the same.
  • The army turn up and kill everyone, not just the aliens. (Cool twist.)
  • Our scientist hero fights on until he eventually gets transported to the alien homeworld, where he defeats the "head" alien.
  • A shadowy figure in a black suit says "well done" and offers him a job.

That's it. That's every significant twist and plot turn.

I hated Half Life when it first came out, but I look back and know why: The press had one giant collective orgasm. It was nauseating. They all kept going on and on: How you could could interact with everything. How the world was so dense and deep. How it was one endless level, which therefore meant it was better than all other shooters. And most of all: How it had an incredible story that was told in amazing ways.

My expectations were through the roof. After growing up playing Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle, et al., I was about to play a game with an incredible story, told in amazing ways.

None of the magazines claims were true then, any more than they are now.

It was innovative in some ways, yes. But it wasn't the massive leap forward that everyone claimed it was. Duke Nukem 3D was more interactive. System Shock and Unreal had more involved storylines. Games like Blood had better atmosphere. Doom and Doom II were more fun to play.

Half-Life just took a bunch of these things and did something slightly different than before. It was slightly more "real world" (although Duke Nukem had flushable toilets and a "city" several years prior), and it was slightly more cinematic. If you bought into the world (and really only playing Portal 2 has really made me feel like diving into that world) I'm sure it was cool from the outset, but it was lacking in so much personality. (Half Life had as much personality as Gordon Freeman.)

That said, because of Portal 2 (and this thread), I feel like giving that world another go. Although, to be honest, I think I'll start with HL2.

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Sno, I'm playing Source because I've beaten Vanilla several times and had still never spent more than a couple of hours with this cool-sounding thing that came with my special edition of HL2 back in the day. Hadn't heard about all the problems before, but still want to go through it this way. If something horrible comes up, I'm sure I can "PC gaming" my way through it (read: console command my ass off).

As for the story stuff that Orvidos brought up, I totally agree that Half Life at large has a horrible story. As I think was brought up on the podcast a long time ago, it's basically just Doom. What gets me about the series is the way that the world is constructed and presented. You always feel like you're in some kind of danger, like you're only a small part of what's going on, and that you're improvising every step of the way. A very large part of what's amazing about Valve's games is that even though there's really only one way to get through them, they always manage to construct everything in a way that makes you feel like you're discovering it and playing it by ear. This has been particularly apparent to me playing Half Life 1 and going through things like Office Complex. I see all these vents, doors, hallways, rooms, etc and just pick the one that feels right. Invariably, I've gone the right way. The game has never once slowed to a "Alright, now what?" crawl, but I've also never felt like I'm just being shepherded along. That's a great achievement for a linear game.

As for the expansions, I've never played Blue Shift, but I did play through Opposing Force when I borrowed it from a friend in Junior High. I have them on Steam because apparently the CD key on my copy of Half Life 1 unlocked the complete pack when I entered it in back in the day. Worth a play then?

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I never played through HL1 when it was new. I had played parts at friends places, but I never sat through the whole thing. I had started playing it like a month ago since I realize it's kinda important. I also never finished 2 when I started it a couple years back, because my computer broke and I lost the saves just before cloud saving came out.

Since I did the golden potato thing, I actually have every single Valve game, so I'll join you on this HL journey.

Edit: Everyone should check out the Super 8 interactive trailer in the Portal 2 extras. Seeing all that tech in a more natural single player game environment made me super psyched to play another more traditional Valve game.

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I was a massive FPS fan around the time Half-Life came out. Played probably most of them, or at least demos for ones I couldn't get my hands on. Half-Life was definitely an eye opener. It was the first game that I felt genuinely scared in an FPS because it's so damn immersive. It's not just the "always first person" thing either - there was a degree of authenticity to the game world that was lacking in other games prior. I think it had to do with unpredictability of it all. Before Half-Life, I knew what to expect from a shooter. They all had patterns that you learn quickly. Static world. Separated by levels. Keycards. Monster closets. Etc. I guess Half-Life carried some of them over, but arranged them so naturally that it didn't feel like a *game*

So yeah, it may have aged horribly, but I'll always remember it fondly as the first shooter to scare the crap out of me.

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Sno, I'm playing Source because I've beaten Vanilla several times and had still never spent more than a couple of hours with this cool-sounding thing that came with my special edition of HL2 back in the day. Hadn't heard about all the problems before, but still want to go through it this way. If something horrible comes up, I'm sure I can "PC gaming" my way through it (read: console command my ass off).

As long as you're aware of it, at least. It's not that it's outright broken, you can usually play it start to finish without incident, but it kind of carelessly breaks and changes a lot of small little things. I'm mostly just advocating that you be aware of this, so as not to conflate your experience on Half-Life Source with that of the original game.

As for the expansions, I've never played Blue Shift, but I did play through Opposing Force when I borrowed it from a friend in Junior High. I have them on Steam because apparently the CD key on my copy of Half Life 1 unlocked the complete pack when I entered it in back in the day. Worth a play then?

Blue Shift is pretty flimsy, but it's also short, not a huge investment. (Of time, i mean.)

Opposing Force is genuinely really, really great though.

Blue Shift also has that "HD model pack" which Valve actually does support in Steam. It doesn't work with Half-Life source, but it does work with the add-ons and vanilla Half-Life. I don't remember how you force Steam to download and install it though, you used to have to do some silly stuff with to make it work, but it's actually built into those Steam versions. At least that was how it was when i last tried, i don't know if it's still like that.

Mostly just saying that if you want to use that model pack, it's out there, and you can probably find out how to install it pretty easily. The model pack isn't necessarily even an improvement, just a matter of taste. If you want a slightly higher-poly version of Half-Life, there's an actual official option for it.

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As long as you're aware of it, at least. It's not that it's outright broken, you can usually play it start to finish without incident, but it kind of carelessly breaks and changes a lot of small little things. I'm mostly just advocating that you be aware of this, so as not to conflate your experience on Half-Life Source with that of the original game.

What are these changes? I'm intrigued now.

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What are these changes? I'm intrigued now.

Shit, it's been a long time since i played it, but i know i was really, really upset about it. Heh.

There were just lots of little scripting bugs that seemed to crop up only in that version of the game, the physics are all kinds of wrong. (The gauss rifle's secondary attack has recoil, and in the Source port, that recoil kills you.)

It just seemed really, really lazy and haphazard. Not unplayable, just... Kind of a worse version of a great game.

Maybe some of those things were eventually patched? Though i remember reading something to the effect that Valve had no plans of doing so, since HL:Source was conceived as mostly just a tech demo and a bonus for fans.

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Blue Shift also has that "HD model pack" which Valve actually does support in Steam. It doesn't work with Half-Life source, but it does work with the add-ons and vanilla Half-Life. I don't remember how you force Steam to download and install it though, you used to have to do some silly stuff with to make it work, but it's actually built into those Steam versions. At least that was how it was when i last tried, i don't know if it's still like that.

Mostly just saying that if you want to use that model pack, it's out there, and you can probably find out how to install it pretty easily. The model pack isn't necessarily even an improvement, just a matter of taste. If you want a slightly higher-poly version of Half-Life, there's an actual official option for it.

I linked the steampowered thread in my previous message, there is the link that downloads the high res pack, for me it downloaded it and installed it, but I don't know where and how as I only have the Source version and there the models look really low res still. Randy Pitchford and Gearbox made the high res models for Blue Shift and Valve enabled those for the normal HL also. Shame that Opposing Forces don't have high res pack, but it's still a sweet game. I like that actually more than HL1.

I should've bought the original HL when they had sales, $9.99 as regular price is just too high for just HL1.

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The high definition models only work on the original Half-Life and Blue Shift. Also, unless i remember wrong, it will also work on Opposing Force for the specific relevant models not original to that game, like the Barneys. I might totally be making that up though.

It very specifically does not work for Half-Life Source though. (If i remember correctly, it's because none of those "HD" Blue Shift models were rigged for rag dolls, which is something Valve had to do to all the original models when porting HL1 to Source.)

If you've got that all accounted for and they still weren't showing up... Uh... God, i don't know, it's been so long since i played those. I think i had to setup the game to launch with a command line through Steam. According to the link you provided, you don't seem to need to do that anymore though.

I actually haven't really used Steam in a long time, heh.

Edit: Oh, hey, but yeah. You say you only have HL: Source, the model pack won't work then, yeah.

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Played through to halfway through "Apprehension" (Chapter 9 of 18) last night, the part where the ninjas start showing up. I'd forgotten how little sense that made, but whatever. I guess they needed better humans for you to fight and fuck it, 1998 video game story. That said, still greatly enjoying myself. The "Blast Pit" (blow up the giant plant monster) and section with that huge blue thing were exactly as terrifying as I remembered them, and I've felt the entire way through that I've been clinging to just enough health and energy to get me to the next system. I've gotta say, I'm super impressed with how well placed the health and energy pickups are. It feels almost survival-horror like the way I have this massive rush of relief every time I see a charging station. Really cool. Halfway through the game now, and no signs of slowing down. I also installed Opposing Force. I've only played it once and that was 10 years ago, so why the hell not? I'll keep on going through after Half Life is done, as long as it'll still run on my machine.

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Where the hell is the Black Mesa mod, that's what I'm waiting for (plus a new computer to play it on, obv).

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wehn its done lol

Me too, actually... What's going to happen is, I get impatient and buy HL1 again, play it all the way through and then the moment I finish it... BAM! Black Mesa: Source comes out.

Soooo basically, if you want Black Mesa: Source to come out, you're gonna have to buy me HL1 + all expansions.

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When a mod takes more than a year to come out, let alone release a demo, I stop giving a shit. And it's been how many years now?

That's not what mod development should be like. Awful.

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That's what most mod development is like, in my experience. :mock: Especially the total conversions.

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Yeah, now. Didn't used to be that way. Mod development was much more open, and better, in the past. Demos out the wazoo.

Sure, a good deal of them didn't finish, but at least they got something out. Black Mesa has, quite literally, nothing to show for all the work they've done except some screenshots, and I think there's a video? Until it's released to us, it might as well be an artist's rendering of what the game COULD look like.

And I'm aware that certain Lucky Individuals have been alpha or beta or whatever testing the game for some time, but this is just getting sad. I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone is excited about Black Mesa: Source at this point.

Like I said: this isn't how mod development should be.

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Oh, yeeeaaa, I guess that is kind of true. They used to release version 0.005 so to speak. Then the only thing that is the same is that mod development is slow. :grin:

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Got about halfway through "Forget About Freeman" tonight. Still amazed at how well this is all holding up. Always about to die, never dead. It's riding the line of difficulty perfectly. It's been kind of interesting to see other people's Steam ID's popping up every now and then saying that "X is playing Half Life" or "Y is playing Blue Shift." Looks like at least a few other people are going for the old Valve games. I'm a little worried that I'm so close to Xen now, as all I really remember about it is that it was really out of place. I can't remember specifics, and I'm worried it will ruin the experience. Still, I'll keep plugging away at it. It's still really good.

Sno, I can now confirm that (at least for me) the Gauss cannon's secondary mode does NOT kill me in HL:Source, so maybe they did end up improving it?

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I'm pretty sure the Gauss kills you (in both) if you charge it up too long, right?

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Got about halfway through "Forget About Freeman" tonight. Still amazed at how well this is all holding up. Always about to die, never dead. It's riding the line of difficulty perfectly.

I remember this, Half-Life seemed like such a splendidly balanced game. It always really bothered me that HL2 seemed so much less careful about balance, simply giving your weapons extremely low carry limits for ammo instead of carefully restricting what it was giving you.

I'm a little worried that I'm so close to Xen now, as all I really remember about it is that it was really out of place. I can't remember specifics, and I'm worried it will ruin the experience. Still, I'll keep plugging away at it. It's still really good.

XEEEEEEN. I couldn't understand it at the time, how a game could go from being one of the best things i had ever played, to just... becoming completely unrecognizable and awful in the span of like a few minutes. I played through Half-Life many times, and often would just stop at the big teleporter chamber. Whenever i tried to play Xen, i felt like i was breaking the game just constantly, working myself into positions where i kept thinking that it couldn't possibly be what the designers had actually intended for me to do. Nnnnngh... I guess the best advice i would have for Xen is to take it slow, think about your actions several moves in advance, and try to appreciate the atmosphere more than the game design. (Because really, Xen looks and sounds amazing.)

Sno, I can now confirm that (at least for me) the Gauss cannon's secondary mode does NOT kill me in HL:Source, so maybe they did end up improving it?

Great, that's awesome, i'm glad to hear that was at least fixed. It seemed so glaring, like they just didn't care. I remember playing HL: Source several times over the course of a few years and being increasingly frustrated about that bug never being dealt with. (I'm certain it wasn't just my PC, or a specific install of the game, those runs were all on different rigs.)

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I'm pretty sure the Gauss kills you (in both) if you charge it up too long, right?

Yeah it does, if you over charge. The issue was that in HL: Source, the recoil specifically would kill you, not the overcharge. It was a really annoying bug that rendered the weapon kind of unusable.

Edit: Man, am i crazy? Did nobody else have any problems with HL: Source?

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Well, with your warnings in mind specifically, I saved before firing it for the first time just to be sure. The first shot knocked me back into a wall and hurt me a bit, but only about 15 health points. After that, I didn't get hurt again.

I will likely be playing Xen on Saturday afternoon or Sunday night, so if I'm going to be exploding with rage at it, I'll come here and vent then.

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I will likely be playing Xen on Saturday afternoon or Sunday night, so if I'm going to be exploding with rage at it, I'll come here and vent then.

I never remember being filled with rage at Xen. It just made me feel very apathetic, as I recall.

All this talk of HL1... Maybe I should give it another go, for old time's sake. I might really like it now. Hmm! Miffy, how long does a HL playthrough take, roughly?

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