Real ID on Blizzard Forums

[Moelman]

For anyone who hasn't heard, Blizzard will be using Real ID (real first and last names) for all forum posts from the release of SC2 and Cataclysm going forward. So basically if you post on their forums, you will be posting under your real name. It is not retroactive however. Read more here: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64623 http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/1851-Battle-net-Update-Upcoming-Changes-to-the-Official-Forums

So I'm interested to hear what the thumbs think about this. I'm personally fine with it since my real name is all over the web already, but I know a lot of people are up in arms about it. I can see why someone might not want their name on a WoW forum when a potential employer goes searching for them, or something like that. But I think the more general argument of privacy doesn't make sense, what is someone going to do with just a name, and even if there is private info to be dug up, who is going to go digging unless you are a huge asshole.

[Boris Stoke]

Yeah, at first I didn't think it was that big of a deal. We give our name to random people who ask for it all the time in real life, now it's on an internet forum. Maybe it'll just keep people from being internet jerks.

This would be really bad for the celebrities that play those games though. They're going to find a lot of mysterious friend invites.

[spindrift]

This would be really bad for the celebrities that play those games though. They're going to find a lot of mysterious friend invites.

Only if they choose to display their real name in-game. It is supposed to be opt-in. The only time it's mandatory is if you choose to post on the forums.

Not saying it's a good thing at all. Just that it's not like Blizzard is giving out the real names of every player without their consent.

[Thompson]

The only place on the internet that rivals YouTube is the Blizzard forums in terms of sheer douchebaggery, hopefully using real names will have some slight effect on how horrible people are on the Blizzard forums.

[Xeneth]

I'm for the general concept, as I have... issues with forums. (As a format for human communication) As I've said before, the relatively small size and high quality of these really is the only thing keeping me posting here. I find that threading and making conversations persistent exaggerates a lot of the inherent problems with text-based communication between people, to the point where even minor disagreements are amplified.

For example, when arguing/bantering with people face-to-face, (or even in IM/Chat to a limited degree) all parties hold a sort of "conversation state" in their heads. Unsurprisingly, these states are based on impressions and are usually slightly warped by perspective. By shifting the conversation state tracking into a perfect digital record that never really mentally "scrolls off the top of the mind", you disable some of our inbuilt tools for dulling the fire. Fundamentally, when you argue, you're trying to make each other see the issue from each others perspectives. As they progress, we often back off on certain points or mollify each other by updating our mental model of the argument "landscape" to try to work around various defenses. The perfect static record that keeps getting quoted to the top of "the stack" means it often feels like no one's shifting their stances, even if they really are.

There's a reason Quoting and other non-linear functions are necessary to aid tracking when the conversation takes place over long periods of time between so many people, but if you've ever had a heated text-based conversation in a medium where the entire log wasn't constantly visible, try going back and reading through it again and note how the real-time-ness and ephemera force it to flow differently.

Sorry, weird tangent. As I was saying, I'm interested in any experiment that can be done to the forum format to encourage changes... I just wish it weren't being conducted in THAT community... Female Blizzard gamers I know might as well be banned from posting under those circumstances, they get digitally stalked badly enough as it is.

[elmuerte]

I think it's a serious bad move. There have already been enough examples where nut jobs are bad losers and cause serious harm to the people the lost from. Now it will be easier to find them.

The blizzard forums are not just for discussions, but also the place for support. There isn't really a good reason why the real name should be shown. If they want to remove the anonymity from the forums from the service provider perspective, then link the forum accounts directly to the battle.net accounts.

Alternatively you could change your legal name to John Smith. Then the whole idea of "real name" is instantly useless. It will only hurt people with more or less unique names (or names similar to famous people (no, not sean 'famous' vanaman)).

And as facebook has shown, it won't get rid of internet trolls and assholes.

[Thompson]

Alternatively you could change your legal name to John Smith. Then the whole idea of "real name" is instantly useless. It will only hurt people with more or less unique names (or names similar to famous people (no, not sean 'famous' vanaman)).

I think John Smith is, ironically, probably a pretty rare name.

[Roswell47]

I think Karen from Journeyswithjaye.com makes an excellent argument: http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1731

[Grufff]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm - BBC News article regarding it.

I personally don't really like that idea and it'd stop me from posting on the forums. I'm a bit paranoid though and hate to knowingly post my name on the internet.

I know a few girl gamers that don't like the move either as it means they'll get highlighted as being girls should they post anything, and could ultimately lead to trouble for them.

At the end of the day, it all just depends on what level of anonymity you feel appropriate for forums etc. Blizzard do seem to be heading down the Facebook route with it though which causes me some concern.

[dibs]

The Bliz forums are a cesspool, adding real names is a horrible horrible idea.

On a forum like this one the idea has some merits, but you have to wonder if Bliz have ever actually read their own forums and taken note of the types of people that use it.

[Drath]

Seems like a pretty weird move to make. Maybe there's some hidden motives: real names = less people will use it = less people to moderate?

[mikemariano]

This is an overwhelmingly terrible idea, for all the reasons Grufff, Roswell47, and elmuerte have listed.

How does RealID work for minors? A post elsewhere suggests that right now anyone 13 to 18 just writes a name and clicks a box stating that they are the offspring of the legal card holder.

That means you're either protecting trolls who are (or pretend to be) minors, or you're revealing everything about a minor's parents---and essentially everything about the minor, as well.

Drath: I can't figure out a good motive. Fewer forum users isn't predictable. There's no good marketing/data mining angle. Blizzard has that information already.

It seems like they zealously want to give people the ability to name and shame trolls, but really they're just giving those trolls more ammo.

[Forbin]

The thing that frustrates me is all the confusion and misinformation going around the internet. Mostly from frothing Starcraft "fans" who rage about everything battle.net before they understand anything about the systems.

RealID in-game is an extra feature for players who know each other personally and wish to chat cross-realm, cross-game and cross-characters. There's no reason that anybody would be forced to use it, as the normal friends lists in both SC2 and WoW are perfectly fine for anonymous e-friends. There's an issue where addons can access your RealID, and they could potentially broadcast that to other people, but there are a lot of mallicious things an addon can do and the community is very good at vetting them. I'm sure Blizzard will close that security hole soon, but until then just be careful what addons you install. Basically in-game interactions are no different than before, and people who actually play WoW already know this, it's the paranoid non-players making a stink about it.

In terms of privacy on the forums, the answer is simple don't post if you don't want your information public. Any post you make on any forum will have your real name listed, and optionally you can also list an in-game character. Obviously it's not great that information is out there, but if you're posting on the support or even class forums, nobody really has anything to link your characters to your name. All they know is that somebody named John Smith, has an issue with crashing to desktop after the latest patch. And as long as you don't post like an asshole, you shouldn't have any issues with people wanting to track you down or Google hits showing shameful results. Not great, but Blizzard is basically saying they don't want to host the giant forum community they currently have anymore.

This will effectively kill realm forums, and should remove a great deal of spam and flame bait. It will probably change the forums into something I personally would get more value out of, but it's sad that they've decided to kill the existing experience for so many people. Especially sad for the Roleplaying community, that use their forums for more than just flame wars and justifiably want anonymity.

It could potentially filter out the noise generated by ridiculous suggestions and complaints, leaving only constructive posts people are willing to put their name on. Before posting anything in those forums was like dropping a twig into rapids, it's off the front page before you can say "paladins are imba". Which could in turn lead to better games, as the community team can better process user input.

One serious problem I see with this is extra information given to phishers. If I'm trolling the forums and see someone with a unique enough name, I could do a little research and potentially pull up enough information to convince a billing representative that I was that person. It's lining up targets for predators that Blizzard knows full well exist.

[David]

What's the big deal guys

[Xeneth]

The girl gamer issue seems to be the one I'm most empathizing with- That's a VERY heavy misogynistic and love-starved community in general as it is. For most guys with fairly non-unique names, just posting in a reasonable manner negates most of the concerns... For anyone with an obviously female first name, that's a crapload of random PMs from trolls and people who are desperate to snag an SO that shares their hobby. I'm afraid THAT community really doesn't need anything more than "it's a girl" info-wise to become intolerable.

I'd really like to see this sort of experiment on a news forum/community or something that makes more sense than online gaming, where anonymity is arguably a reason for its success.

[syntheticgerbil]

What's the big deal guys

Yeah, but you're basically famous.

[Luggage]

Real ID changes in a nutshell...

-NgAkWxcPBE

Trolls are going to troll no matter if their name is displayed or not.

The possible and certain negative effects do largely outweight the benefits the Real ID system may have. The forums either won't change at all or become a ghost town. And the "friends of friends" feature (other peole on your "friends" friend list can also see who he's friend with, so they'll have access to your name) of the Real ID friends list makes the whole thing a privacy risk most rational people shouldn't be taking.

We've had people invested in online gaming being harassed, slandered, beaten up, stabbed or killed despite the anonymity the net provides. It doesn't take a pessimist to imagine what disclosed real names will do.

And just to answer a question from above: this feature is mandatory without any way to opt-out. Although somebody suggested activating the parental control feature because it should hide your identity, but would also prevent you from posting on the forums or having any Real ID friends. So no cross-game chatting for you.

[Chris]

What's the big deal guys

Holy shit are you etc.

[DanJW]

I have mixed feelings.

On general principles I think it's a privacy risk and anonymity is almost an internet tradition. Plus all the unforeseen consequences that have been, uh, foreseen above.

On the other hand the WoW forums are so hideous that I feel a certain degree of Shadenfreude in seeing bad things happen to them and think that 75% of the users deserve to be severely inconvenienced, preferably in a medical manner.

It's not like I've ever been crazy enough to get involved in those forums anyway, even when I was playing lots of WoW. So I guess I'm filing this in Not My Problem Thank Gods.

[Grippage]

Most popular names in 2011: SoulReaper, Kratos and Leeroy Jenkins

[DanJW]

Hahahah!

Popular names for girls in 2011: Bayonetta, Onyxia, Bellavamp.

[Coldkill]

There was that Blizzard employee who had all his data leaked after he posted his real name on the Blizzard forum, pictures from school, Facebook account, pretty much everything that was available. The thread had to be pulled because this person's life was just out there on the Blizzard forums.

If you've ever seen the darker side of the internet you will know that a name is all anyone needs to get your information. People have had their home addresses found, they've been stalked, threatened and had their property damaged or destroyed. In fact, there have been cases of just photos being used to identify people and then get all that information.

If I choose to give my name to someone in real life, and I have refused in some cases, I've already gotten a feeling about that person, who they are and what their intentions are. You know what they look like, you know what to expect. If someone tracks you down that's anonymous, you could have no idea it's happened until they've beaten down your door with a crusty old french baguette and are throwing bottles of wine at your head.

[Forbin]

The problem is we've basically got a 3-part causal relationship.

If Real ID is implemented on the forums -> people's personal information will be revealed when they make forum posts -> most people will stop posting on the forums.

Nobody seems to get passed the first relationship, acting as if everyone everywhere will be exposed. They've suspended the logical conclusion from debate, living in some fantasy world where women are sexually harassed and young boys are stalked and killed for corpse camping someone of the opposite faction.

Sure there will be some outlier scenarios where people continue to troll with their name exposed, and associated to their in-game character. And where parents maybe don't use the settings to prevent their children from posting on the forums. But I think any debate that focuses on those nightmare scenarios is missing the forest for the trees. Also, it's a bit of an imaginary security blanket, as real information has not been required for related incidents in the past.

It's a bit like the facebook privacy debates, where people argue about their private pictures are being exposed on the internet by facebook. I agree it sucks, but in general you have to take ownership yourself as anything you put out there on the internet has a high risk of becoming public. The way that these companies exchange information, and what a private detective or marketing company can look up about you based off limited information is crazy. We've all left a trail of bread crumbs that can lead back to us with minimal effort. There's a certain arrogance of teenagers these days that makes them think they're anonymous, and nobody really thinks about what kind of information they've supplied to the world.

I don't want to sound like an old fart, I'm only 27, but when the internet was young there was a great deal of paranoia about what information you chose to share. The idea of uploading a picture online of someone else was an invasion of privacy, and everyone was skeptical of even giving their address to a noteworthy online retailer. Now you're giving web sites your mother's maiden name, and place of birth as a security questions so you can post on a forum.

And I think we slid in that trust, we created a green zone of trusted uses of our personal information. Yeah my bank can have my information, and reputable retailers like amazon. But I believe there's a segregation of information we give for use in billing and shipping, and that we put out there for public consumption. I gave Blizzard my name, my address and my credit card so that they could bill me, not so that it could show up beside my avatar in a forum.

Penny-Arcade has a well thought out opinion as usual.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Forbin

[syntheticgerbil]

I think it's a serious bad move. There have already been enough examples where nut jobs are bad losers and cause serious harm to the people the lost from. Now it will be easier to find them.

I've read some of these articles before on the matter, I'm just wondering if there's a compendium of news articles with people getting too "serious" in real life finding other online gamers and causing physical harm.

[Inphidel]

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-wow-realid.html

ahaha there you go.