Emergent Gameplay

[Garple]

I want to explore emergent gameplay. What games facilitate this? Please share your stories and let's try and get a definitive list of the best games for emergent experiences. I think it's safe to say Far Cry 2 and STALKER: CoP will be high on the list.

[Roderick]

I think the Red Dead thread proves that game has plenty of potential too. Maybe not as much as a Far Cry 2, but there's stories a-cookin' there.

[Sombre]

Spelunky is often great

[toblix]

Is the RDR stuff emergent gameplay, though? I thought that was more explicitly related to game mechanics (like the Deus Ex example of using explosive barrels to create traps) rather than reading awesome little stories into generic events in the game.

[Murdoc]

Could you be more specific with this definition? I think most games have some for of "emergent gameplay" going on in them, literally every multiplayer game has a form of it.

The ones you have described seem to have an emergent quality about their environment systems in common; so you'd like more fo those kinds of things?

Some of the examples I always think of when I hear emergent are things like Populous, Simcity, and Black & White... though I currently have Molyneux and Wright stuck in my head after this mornings article on gamasutra, lol.

edit: Additionally, if using Toblix's definition; I'll interpret it as dropping a player into a world of systems and rules and letting them run free I'll add GTA 1 and 2 to the list.

Ultima Online(pre-renaissance...as it is the only version I can testify to) while multiplayer and inevitable have that form of "emergence" to it, the actual systems and tools in the game created such a unique combination of things it just produced A LOT of unexpected results and kept producing them despite "fixes" from the developers.

[Forbin]

On a related note, I just realized the Wikipedia article on Emergent Gameplay is a terrible mess.

But I think Molyneux is correct, the more of a simulation a game is, the more potential it has for emergent gameplay.

Personally I find that World of Warcraft is the absolute king. MMOs have to built as a series of systems rather than procedural events. But it's emergence may be more akin to a mutliplayer shooter than a single player sim.

[elmuerte]

Some me "emergent gameplay" is a game that really sucks me into it and have me keep playing it. It doesn't really mean you lose the knowledge that you're playing a game. As most games break that concept by a HUD, user interface elements or loading screens.

To me, Batman: Arkham Asylum was quite emergent. For some games it takes a little while, like Fallout 3. I finished Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project one go without any major breaks (took me about 8 hours in total). Sands of Time was also a game I was quite emergent to me.

edit: stoopid languages

Edited June 7, 2010 by elmuerte

[Murdoc]

Some me "emergent gameplay" is a game that really sucks me into it and have me keep playing it. It doesn't really mean you lose the knowledge that you're playing a game. As most games break that concept by a HUD, user interface elements or loading screens.

To me, Batman: Arkham Asylum was quite emergent. For some games it takes a little while, like Fallout 3. I finished Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project one go without any major breaks (took me about 8 hours in total). Sands of Time was also a game I was quite emergent to me.

Wait, do you mean immersive gameplay?

[Snooglebum]

Far Cry 2 really doesn't have any emergent gameplay to speak of, don't bother.

[elmuerte]

Wait, do you mean immersive gameplay?

Don't confuse me. (-- Sledge Hammer)

but yeah... scrap my previous comment

[Garple]

My favorite emergent experience (though I haven't had many) is in Fallout 3, when I was running around with the female treasure hunter who helps you go after the declaration of independence. I really liked her as a character and was sad when she died, but my kneejerk reaction was to coldly loot her body and take her awesome machine pistol. Then I felt like I'd become disconnected and clinical in regard to human life, since I treated this "friend" of mine like a supply shelf instead of a person whose death was to be mourned.

[elmuerte]

I had a similar feeling recently in Dragon Age. Although the person wasn't killed, I did loot the shit out of his home (it was that scholar that was looking for the ashes). I really felt like a medieval asshole (in contrast to a space asshole).

It really struck me, wtf am I allowed to look people's homes and get away with it. At least in the Bethesda games people got angry when I did that.

[Garple]

It really struck me, wtf am I allowed to look people's homes and get away with it. At least in the Bethesda games people got angry when I did that.

I like it in games where you can get away with anything as long as no one knows you did it. That's the way of the world, so it feels super contrived when games penalize you for something without your getting caught.

[LOPcagney]

Not that I ever got into it myself, but isn't Dwarf Fortress the very definition of emergent gameplay? The entire system is built on volumes of complex rules and associations and virtually everything that comes out of the game is emergent.

Garry's Mod is another great example. Using only the physics of the Source engine and a couple basic mechanics, people have built some pretty incredible, emergent scenarios.

[Thompson]

The Grand Theft Autos allow for infinite numbers of interactions. (Probably not actually INFINITE)

I've got some good immersive gameplay moments but not really any emergant gameplay moments.

Would the following qualify as emergant?

I was driving my sweet truck with the 50. cal on the back that I got in the Fortune's Pack for Far Cry 2 and I parked up just outside an outpost on the main road that runs through it. I got on the 50. cal and I was beautifully positioned behind a small mound that provided cover while still allowing me to mow down the guards. I opened fire and took them by surprise, guards scattered all over the post, some running for cover, others running for vehicles. 1 guard jumped into an assault truck and started coming towards me so I took him out, I continued firing until I was happy that everyone was dead. It was at this point that I heard a car engine revving, like when they try to run you over, I was perplexed and trying to figure out where it could be coming from when suddenly an assault truck burst through the bushes and did a massive barrel roll over the top of my car (All while the guy on top was shooting at me) off the mound that I had turned into cover. I tracked the car as it flew and it managed to land on it's wheels at which point it rolled over before slamming into a tree and exploding. All I could do was laugh hysterically.

[Orv]

Would the following qualify as emergant?

I'd qualify that as the game mechanics allowing you to do something unexpected/insane. I have to agree with Snoogle that everything in Far Cry 2 is a result of a trillion guards spawning like space rabbits of roving death. Sure, things unexpectedly happen as a result, but if you play Far Cry 2 enough, something will happen again. I'd say it isn't emergent.

Though, honestly, on that theory, I have trouble thinking of anything emergent. Hmmmmm. I smell plot holes.

(It's also entirely possible I'm an imbecile.)

[miffy495]

If we're talking about player-created narrative as emergent (this would be an emergent narrative, not emergent gameplay, but I think that may be what most people mean when they talk about this anyway), please see my posts in the Red Dead Redemption thread for the ongoing story of my quest to avenge my beloved horse, G Money, who was killed in an ill-advised rescue attempt of an NPC who'd been taken hostage by some bandits.

[LOPcagney]

I would classify emergent gameplay as any activities allowed by the rules of the game but not specifically programmed. It is gameplay which arises inadvertently from the rules of the game. So, for example, if you set an oil slick in Bioshock on fire, that is not emergent because that interaction was programmed by the developers ("oil slicks are flammable"). However, if that oil slick then lights the splicer standing in it on fire as a result, that is an emergent interaction, since the player is creatively joining two individual rules of the game universe ("oil slicks are flammable" and "splicers are flammable").

[toblix]

I guess that satisfies a formal definition, if one were to exist, but I would say it's not really emergent because setting oil slicks on fire is only possible so you can set splicers on fire also. Couldn't you say the same thing about throwing grenades?

[miffy495]

Also, while that technically is emergent gameplay, it's far less entertaining in most cases to talk about ways one used a game's systems in unintended ways than to talk about the stories and events that unfolded as a result. This is why I believe emergent narrative to be the more suited for this sort of topic. As an example from the podcast, Remo's sneaking around that sleeping thing in the cave in Call of Pripyat. None of those mechanics were not planned for. Enemies could sleep, enemies can hear you rummage in your inventory, and they can't see in the dark. The way that these mechanics converged may count as an emergent interaction to you, but the fact that they converged is missing the point. It is the surprise of coming upon a sleeping monster, the panic as he realized he had woken it, the fear of being stalked in the dark, the frustration of a missed kill shot, and finally the triumph of killing it after all of the above that make the story worth telling. This hinges on the gameplay of course, but if we are not talking about an emergent narrative, all we have are dry interactions. Kind of cool if we want to talk about a spectacular crash in Just Cause or something, but not very useful for any real stories.

Similarly, my experience in Red Dead Redemption is based on emergent gameplay in the way you seem to want to define it. The game has NPCs who will occasionally get kidnapped. You may rescue them. There is a gang which does that in Pike's basin. The game also allows your horse to get caught in the crossfire. It also makes breaking a horse and earning its trust rather important. All of these things came together and resulted in a single emergent gameplay experience. That being: dead horse. What made me feel that the story bore relating was not the dead horse, however. It was the bond I had developed with it, the anguish at losing it, and my desire to avenge it setting me on a vendetta against a gang which plays an incredibly minor role in the actual story of the game. This is not emergent gameplay, it is emergent narrative.

At any rate, I think neither term covers enough if we are going to be relating stories of this sort of thing to one another. I prefer to go with "emergent event" myself. Sorry to go on a stupid semantic rant here, but pride requires me to hit the "submit reply" button now and await the (justified) responses which call me a pompous jackass.

[toblix]

Oops, it looks like I misunderstood the thread. Obviously emergent experiences or whatever is more interesting, and what this thread is for. Sorry, carry on.

[Forbin]

I think these strings of state modifiers are prettymuch what makes up emergent gameplay, but the question of whether they're forseen or not is interesting. Though players may see through the obvious links, (oil = flammable, splicer = flamable...) the not-so-obvious links can still be predicted by the developers.

I used to subscribe to a lot more gaming podcasts, and one thing that led to me trimming the fat that was they became repetitive. Not just in the news coverage, but in their insights into games they were reviewing. Without fail, at least 2 journalists would talk about some amazing experience they had that seemed amazing and emergent. Eg: Red Dead Redemption has a point where a prostitute is being attacked by a man with a knife. If you kill the guy after he's killed her, then YOU get chased by the law.

There are more complex examples, but a lot of these interactions are common.

[DanJW]

Science writers Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen have talked about the difference between complication and complexity (for instance in the excellent Science of Discworld books - hint: they're actually about real science).

Lots of rules acting together can create complication. It takes a while to work out but is ultimately predictable.

Complexity however is what life runs on. While the components of a complex system can be analysed and modelled and predicted in general terms, the system as a whole cannot be predicted with 100% accuracy. Not without building an exact copy, and even then the copy will run at the same speed, so there is no real point. A complex system modifies itself and its own rules even as it runs. The rules at any one time are never broken though.

Emergent gameplay, as I see it, comes out of games that manage to produce (small) complex systems, not just complicated ones. Their mechanics tend to have a number of analogue or scaling measures, rather than simple binary states.

[Nachimir]

My favorite piece of gameplay that not even the developers were expecting was Manta camping in UT2K4. It was outrageous enough to be hilarious for a little while, but just boring enough to do for more than a minute that it never became such a common problem.

Basically, there was a hovercraft called the Manta which had two special abilities: Descend slightly to gib players on foot, and jump short distances. In this map, you could work your way up the side of the heightmap and jump onto the top of that sniper tower you see in the screenshot. At the top of it was a telelport pad, the only way up on foot, and if you hovered above it, anyone coming through would be instantly gibbed. Scores of budding snipers turned to mince

The developers didn't forsee it, but thought it was hilarious. It could be countered fairly easily by anyone in a flying vehicle, but often the team in that base would take a long time to notice it was happening and get enough shit together to send a flyer up there.

[DanJW]

Ah yes, examples.

EVE might well be the epitome of emergent gameplay. So much if that has been created by the players.

Spaff and I used to play Lemmings 2 as a kind of RTS: we would play 2 player co-op, divide the lemmings between us using blockers, then each build a base using the various builder types. Then we would use the diggers, bazookers and exploders to try and destroy each others lemmings, usually undermind the base and sending them into the water below.

It played quite similar to Worms or Scorched Tanks, which came along a bit later.

I guess that's a possible definition of emergent gameplay: mechanics that can be re-purposed to play a game of the player's own devising.