Books, books, books...

[Chris]

I'm currently reading Hilary Mantel's Bring up the Bodies. I loved Wolf Hall, and her follow up to the first Thomas Cromwell book is fantastic (and I'm hard to please because I usually hate historical fiction). I think it's a testament to Mantel's talent as a writer that her novel actually contains suspense, even though all the historical events are already forgone conclusions. There's a scene where Henry VIII has a joust accident and is unconscious for a few hours and all the characters are running around yelling about the king being dead with no male heir, and it made me feel stupid, because for about five seconds I actually thought 'holy shit, he's dead, she's killed him,' even though, historically, I know that Henry lived for much longer. Mantel's writing made me temporarily forget reality and be completely drawn into what was happening on the page. Great book, Mantel deserves all the prizes she's been given for this and Wolf Hall.

Agreed with all of this. My reading time has been challenged recently so I've still got about 20% of it or so left to read, but man, Mantel is something else. The fluid way she plays with perspective and tense, while remaining rigorously within Cromwell's own eyes at all times, is really remarkable to me.

[Chris]

Just one third into Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco, I'm taken aback at just how darn clever it is. This is what happens when a very, very smart person applies his powers to storytelling.

I've come to return to the book every day like an old friend, but I still have no idea what I'm getting into. One chapter it's an unusually literate thriller; the next, a beautiful and intimate journal fragment of a supporting character; the next, a pretentious word game; the next, quick-witted bar conversation worthy of a stage play; the next, a sincere historical lecture; the next, an on-the-nose parody of the lunacy of conspiracy theorists.

Even when Eco halts the narrative momentum for a history lesson, part of my brain (a part only ever exercised by books like this; books that truly make you work for the payoff) finds it gripping stuff.

Wherever this is going, Professor Eco, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Yep. I think for a lot of people, Eco is too clever for his own good as a novelist, and I can totally understand where they're coming from, but he has enough raw and powerful beauty in (most of) his novels that, to me, he earns his acrobatics and digressions.

[Nappi]

Yeah. I think that Foucault's Pendulum would have benefited from (gasp) some editing, but it was still a very impressive novel. The long connect-the-historical-dots sections towards the end, in particular, were very hard for me to follow and eventually reduced to a long list of names and places in my head. I would have preferred to hear more about less. Still, the amount of work that must have gone into that novel is staggering.

The Name of the Rose, on the other hand, is nearly flawless in my opinion.

Which one of Eco's novels should I check out the third?

[Argobot]

Agreed with all of this. My reading time has been challenged recently so I've still got about 20% of it or so left to read, but man, Mantel is something else. The fluid way she plays with perspective and tense, while remaining rigorously within Cromwell's own eyes at all times, is really remarkable to me.

I'd love to hear what you think about the execution scene. That was the only part of the book that I was trepidatious about before reading, because I knew how easy it would be for Mantel to oversensationalize everything. As it's written though, I think that scene is perfect.

[osmosisch]

Yeah. I think that Foucault's Pendulum would have benefited from (gasp) some editing, but it was still a very impressive novel. The long connect-the-historical-dots sections towards the end, in particular, were very hard for me to follow and eventually reduced to a long list of names and places in my head. I would have preferred to hear more about less. Still, the amount of work that must have gone into that novel is staggering.

The Name of the Rose, on the other hand, is nearly flawless in my opinion.

Which one of Eco's novels should I check out the third?

Personally I loved Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum and was indifferent at best to any of his other books I tried. Most recently I read the Prague Cemetery and came away rather disappointed, feeling it was largely a retread of Foucault's Pendulum.

[Alastair]

Personally I loved Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum and was indifferent at best to any of his other books I tried. Most recently I read the Prague Cemetery and came away rather disappointed, feeling it was largely a retread of Foucault's Pendulum.

With this in mind, I'm planning to shake things up by trying his shorter non-fiction, with Six Walks in the Fictional Woods at the top of the stack. (That stack has gotten measurably taller since starting Pendulum. That book alone is a long-term commitment. Why not take it all the way?) It sounds like he infuses his lectures with beautiful prose as much as he infuses his beautiful prose with lectures.

You people have gotten me far, far, far too excited about starting Wolf Hall now. As with Infinite Jest, it's hard not to spend a little time on these forums without feeling pre-emptive exhilaration by proxy.

[Argobot]

You people have gotten me far, far, far too excited about starting Wolf Hall now. As with Infinite Jest, it's hard not to spend a little time on these forums without feeling pre-emptive exhilaration by proxy.

I know just what you mean. I already have terrible impulse control when it comes to buying books, and having an outlet like this where people are recommending so many good books only exacerbates that problem.

[dmarlett]

I know just what you mean. I already have terrible impulse control when it comes to buying books, and having an outlet like this where people are recommending so many good books only exacerbates that problem.

Library?

[Orv]

As someone who typically does not go in for biographies, auto, elaborative or otherwise, Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power is fascinating.

[seamus2389]

Just finished volume 1 of Demoracy in American by Alexis De Toq and the man did have a good grasp on the US in the late 1700 and early 1800. The book is kinda famous cause he predicted the civil war but he figured the confederates would won cause the remaining states wouldn't care enough about the Union to die for it. Some of his thoughts on the future of religion in volume 2 also have proven to be false.

However he concluded the first volume with this when comparing the US to Russia :

"Their starting point is different, and their courses are not the same, yet each of them seems to be marked out by the will of Heaven to sway the destinies of half the globe"

Started reading Dicky Moe after reading Evidence of Things Unseen but not much to say

Started the Citadel of the Autrach as well which is the final volume in Gene Wolfes book of the new sun series. The series is one of the most interesting works of SFF I have ever read. I struggle to figure out what it is I like about it beyond the fact that when I read this book it feels like a very different world from the one I live in. The world it takes place is very odd in a way alot of SFF isn't.

Finished reading Blood Meridian and my only strong thought is that the books is almost a catalogue of the various kinds of violence present in the Wild/South West. The Judge reminds me of the Anton from No country as both are invincible beings of evil/violence but the Judge is more sociable than Anton either because he just is or in the time and place of the book that level of violence was more acceptable/present.

The ending of it reminded me of the Half Made world which a fantasy book where the violence/chaos of the west and the progress/order bring brought by the train line at the end of Merdian are actual supernatural forces in the book.Just like Democracy is an interesting about the politics and society of the early US from a French man the Half made world is an interesting view of the "Wild West" by a Brit

Ulyssess is still standing at 28% read on my kindle and after Dicky Moe I'll have another crack at it.

Finally I read the 1890 novella the Great God Pan which is a early work of horror which clearly influenced Lovecraft in the same way the Gods of Pegana and the book of wonder did.

[Codicier]

I've just finished Grant Morrison's Supergods: Our world in the age of the Superhero. If you've read any of Morrison's work you probably know better than to expect a dry "history of superheroes", it's part autobiography, part spiritual journey, part history, part hymn to the superhero meme.

The central conceit seems to be (to grossly simplify it) is that our cultural taste's are in constant flux between optimism and nihilism,(or as he puts it between hippies and punks) and that we can track this oscillation by looking at the heroes who are popular at different times.

The book is a very rambling, very personal lens that Morrison has chosen to look at his theme thorough and so I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but if you can put up with it author's idiosyncrasies then its a interesting journey to take.

[tegan]

I read a couple of Discworld novels a few years ago and enjoyed them, but never decided to seek out the rest of the series for some reason. In the last few weeks I've been trying to read at least one book from the series each week, in no particular order. It's been an interesting experience! Right now I'm on Moving Pictures, which seems like kind of a spiritual predecessor to Soul Music. I just wish that I could find the Sam Vimes books that I'm missing.

Also, reading these books now and knowing what's been happening to Terry Pratchett for the last few years is the most depressing thing.

[SuperHarman]

Really need to keep up with this thread more often just to make sure I'm up to date with what I'm reading myself.

Troublesome Offspring of Cardinal Guzman by Louis de Bernieres was great. I've never really been a big reader of magic realism but this and The Stone Raft have buried me in it pretty deep which has only continued...but more on that soon. It was funny and quite pointed with a variety of interpretations to be taken from it.

As a part of a book club at work I read The Engagement by Chloe Hooper, it was okay but it became a bit obvious to the point where I picked the twist far sooner than I would have liked.

Back to magic realism and I thought I go to one of the big ones with Gabriel Garcia Marquez' One Hundred Years of Solitude. I haven't finished it yet, I have about 80 or so pages to go but unless it somehow becomes an unreadable mess I think it will find a place among the best novels I've read. It makes me want to learn Spanish just so I can read it in its original tongue. Beautifully written and the imagery is among the strongest I've read in fiction. Picked up a copy of Love in the Time of Cholera too which I will get to some time this year.

Next up is Silent House by Orhan Pamuk for another book club. From there, I have a friend who wants me to read Atlas Shrugged so we can compare notes as she also reads it but I'm reluctant to say the least. Maybe Peter Carey's The True History of the Kelly Gang or something by Salman Rushdie, we'll see.

[osmosisch]

100 years is such a strange book to me. I read it, enjoyed the scenes and characters, and on finishing put it down and thought "well that left no lasting impression on me at all." A very weird experience to have after reading such a well-regarded novel. In general I tend to really enjoy books where stuff just happens for no particular reason, but usually there tends to be more of a message or payoff. This book just felt random and confusing.

I blame myself, really.

[seamus2389]

As someone who typically does not go in for biographies, auto, elaborative or otherwise, Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power is fascinating.

I listen to a podcast based around Jefferson (one of the guys pretends to be him, it's a type of educational role-playing called Chautauqua while the other asks "Jefferson" questions about whatever) and they are doing a 2 part discussion on the book.

http://www.jeffersonhour.com/

[Argobot]

I listen to a podcast based around Jefferson (one of the guys pretends to be him, it's a type of educational role-playing called Chautauqua while the other asks "Jefferson" questions about whatever) and they are doing a 2 part discussion on the book.

http://www.jeffersonhour.com/

YES! I went to college in Colonial Williamsburg and our local NPR station used to air that program all the time (even though Jefferson famously left Williamsburg to go found the University of VA, he's still really popular in Williamsburg). For years I thought only people in Williamsburg knew this show existed, glad to hear that's not the case.

[Ben X]

Well we've got music, we've got TV and film... how about we try books?

I'm currently reading Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets by David Simon (the wonderful person behind The Wire). It's a very explicit non-fiction account of a homicide unit in Baltimore in 1988 (not that it feels like anything has changed since then).

Just picked this up from Traid for a quid! First I've just got to read Johannes Cabal The Necromancer, a Douglas Adams-esque novel from one of the Broken Sword writers, of which I've enjoyed the opening couple of chapters.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Just picked this up from Traid for a quid! First I've just got to read Johannes Cabal The Necromancer, a Douglas Adams-esque novel from one of the Broken Sword writers, of which I've enjoyed the opening couple of chapters.

Cool! I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. That Necromancer book sounds very intriguing indeed!

[Thyroid]

I'm reading Skippy Dies, by Paul Murray, which is a wonderful, absorbing, and perhaps even poignant work.

I think it has also become one of my favourite novels; being four hundred pages in and with two hundred pages left, it's hard to be 100% sure yet. Nevertheless, it's hard not to think of it like that, since it's stuffed with characters that all feel real, and are all vastly different: teachers, students, priests, drug dealers, school bullies and that odd girl who likes to project that she's the shit but who suffers from severe self-consciousness issues. You'll know the characters as soon as they start talking because of how well-defined they are. It has some meditation on relationships (there was something on page 85 of my British paperback that actually made me put the book down in realization that I was reading about myself), some stuff about string theory, what it's like to be fourteen, drug use, being in love for the first time, etc.

It's wide, complex, brilliant, funny and sad. Do give it a look.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

After finishing The Crying of Lot 49 for the bookclub, I am just starting Wolf Hall myself. It's kind of embarrasing how little I know about the actual historical events beforehand, but maybe that will just make it an even more exciting read.

I'm reading Skippy Dies, by Paul Murray, which is a wonderful, absorbing, and perhaps even poignant work.

I think it has also become one of my favourite novels; being four hundred pages in and with two hundred pages left, it's hard to be 100% sure yet. Nevertheless, it's hard not to think of it like that, since it's stuffed with characters that all feel real, and are all vastly different: teachers, students, priests, drug dealers, school bullies and that odd girl who likes to project that she's the shit but who suffers from severe self-consciousness issues. You'll know the characters as soon as they start talking because of how well-defined they are. It has some meditation on relationships (there was something on page 85 of my British paperback that actually made me put the book down in realization that I was reading about myself), some stuff about string theory, what it's like to be fourteen, drug use, being in love for the first time, etc.

It's wide, complex, brilliant, funny and sad. Do give it a look.

Yes! I read it this summer and absolutely loved it as well. Definitely one of my favorites. Even though you know what is going to happen (it's right there in the title) it is absolutely heartbreaking how it all plays out. It's been a long time since I felt such empathy for a fictional character as I did for Skippy. Maybe it's because I saw a bit of myself in him. I also highly recommend this book.

[Thyroid]

He dies on page four, although I think we're going full circle soon and re-arriving at the fateful night at the doughnut shop.

Skippy's one of my best friends, although thankfully he hasn't died. I see a lot of myself in Howard.

Great book.

[Frenetic Pony]

Interesting characters. That's something I've finally realized I've been into lately.

Read the Riyria (just try pronouncing that!) Revelations part 1, and I rather enjoyed it thanks to the two main characters being very well written and somewhat amoral thieves. Part 2 starts off with them immediately having doubts about the whole amoral thief thing, and I immediately put it down. I also recently watched Les Miserables in theaters (out of boredom) and the most interesting character to me was Jevier, the misguided antagonist. The others leads were dull as dirt righteous and upstanding and "do the right thing and fall in love and" etc. sorts. Dull.

So here's my question, what novels feature really great characters that are, perhaps, sort of evil or at least might considered "bad"? Or amoral, or etc. Point is not the average person fixing their conundrum to put the world back the way it was, or a meditation on how relationships work or etc. Something about how they don't work, or someone very very oddball or off their rocker or etc.. E.G. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, A Clockwork Orange (the movie is actually better than the book, thank you Kubrick for cutting the lame, moralist ending off), Fight Club, The Dark Tower (the first book, he goes all "morale" as the series continues) etc.

[Thyroid]

Isn't Alex lying at the end of A Clockwork Orange, though? I remember picking that up. Also, a self-questioning character isn't one lack depth, even if they end-up on the morally "good" side of things.

Anyway, you can't go wrong with noir for that stuff, so try: Jim Thompson (The Grifters,The Killer Inside Me), Raymond Chandler (The Big Sleep), Charles Willeford (Miami Blues, New Hope for the Dead), which I can vouch for. However, there's some authors I haven't tried yet: Chester Himes, David Goodis, Patricia Highsmith, Charles Williams, Dashiell Hammett. Start here and look around. The "Books other customers bought" are all good.

Since you mentioned Dark Tower, try A Song of Ice and Fire, which has its share, especially as it goes on. Lots of gray morality.

Jack Ketchum's novels often have amoral characters in the spotlight. The Lost and Old Flames - a great novella which comes paired with an even better one titled Right to Life - are tight, haunting reads.

[Nappi]

So here's my question, what novels feature really great characters that are, perhaps, sort of evil or at least might considered "bad"? Or amoral, or etc.

Kurt Vonnegut's Mother Night, a fictional memoir of an American Nazi propagandist, is an interesting study in this subject.

[osmosisch]

Interesting characters. That's something I've finally realized I've been into lately.

Read the Riyria (just try pronouncing that!) Revelations part 1, and I rather enjoyed it thanks to the two main characters being very well written and somewhat amoral thieves. Part 2 starts off with them immediately having doubts about the whole amoral thief thing, and I immediately put it down. I also recently watched Les Miserables in theaters (out of boredom) and the most interesting character to me was Jevier, the misguided antagonist. The others leads were dull as dirt righteous and upstanding and "do the right thing and fall in love and" etc. sorts. Dull.

So here's my question, what novels feature really great characters that are, perhaps, sort of evil or at least might considered "bad"? Or amoral, or etc. Point is not the average person fixing their conundrum to put the world back the way it was, or a meditation on how relationships work or etc. Something about how they don't work, or someone very very oddball or off their rocker or etc.. E.G. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, A Clockwork Orange (the movie is actually better than the book, thank you Kubrick for cutting the lame, moralist ending off), Fight Club, The Dark Tower (the first book, he goes all "morale" as the series continues) etc.

The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe is the first thing that came to my mind. The main character is a torturer (though that only figures into things tangentially) and an extremely unreliable narrator.

Probably my favourite works of speculative fiction by far.