elmuerte Posted January 17, 2009 Hmm.... I actually was expecting an "xbox360 -- ps3 -- wii" branching thingy. video games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gdf Posted January 18, 2009 I find it a little weird how people are obsessed with categorizing themselves. I suppose people seek a sense of community, Great tangent at the end of your post, but my theory is that although a sense of belonging and communal beliefs is a factor, people just like arguing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted January 18, 2009 Hence, forums.And so God made forums Fixed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thyroid Posted January 18, 2009 I'll say this about atheists: although I'm not an atheist myself (laugh at my ignorance), I can respect what they're trying to do. That having been said, the atheists going around trying to get more people to be like them and who plaster posters all over walls, telling people how to live, and are offended by the term "BC", are no better than the religious fanatics who'd kill children to make it to heaven. Stop telling me how to live. If I decide to believe in God but there isn't one, sucks to be me; and vice versa for you. (PS: Also, that having been said, I DO have my doubts, like any human, and I do read a lot of physics/biology/philosophy books in search for an answer. I'm on a Carl Sagan kick.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted January 18, 2009 and vice versa for you. How's that? If there is a god (or more), then why would it suck to be me (i.e. an atheist)? Let's say there is a god, in order for suckage this god would find it important/vital to be worshiped. But what if this god doesn't like to be worshiped? Then it wouldn't suck to be me, but it would suck to be a worshiper. Let's say there are multiple gods, maybe the other gods wouldn't like you worshiping the just one of them. It would probably be worse to them if you worship just one, rather than none at all. This all assuming that the god(s) even give a shit. Nah... I'd rather play games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SignorSuperdouche Posted January 18, 2009 I really hate it when people label those that argue in favour of no gods as being "evangelical atheists". No. They're not. That's a very Christian word and definition and it doesn't apply. I totally disagree. I think that the term perfectly sums up the type of atheist who thinks that these bus adverts are a good idea. They share the same baseless sense of superiority and often use to the same ad hominem arguments that evangelicals of the christian variety are known for. They have the same desire to convert people and look down on those who disagree. They are smug, arrogant pricks that just want a cause to fight for and a group to identify themselves with. The word definitely applies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted January 19, 2009 I'll say this about atheists: although I'm not an atheist myself (laugh at my ignorance), I can respect what they're trying to do. That having been said, the atheists going around trying to get more people to be like them and who plaster posters all over walls, telling people how to live, and are offended by the term "BC", are no better than the religious fanatics who'd kill children to make it to heaven.Stop telling me how to live. If I decide to believe in God but there isn't one, sucks to be me; and vice versa for you. (PS: Also, that having been said, I DO have my doubts, like any human, and I do read a lot of physics/biology/philosophy books in search for an answer. I'm on a Carl Sagan kick.) OK, I agree with you up to a point... but I don't know if child-killing is really on the same level as posters... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gdf Posted January 19, 2009 I do admit that from time to time I, like many atheists I imagine, am guilty of being an arrogant and self-important arsehole with that "I'm better than you" attitude, but I like to think that the fact I recognise it and try to tone it down absolves me slightly. Then again, I'm allowed to say that religion is demonstrably more a divisive force than a unifying one etc. till the cows come home, and if a religious person tries to push their shit on me I'm not going to hold back. Live and let live, and that applies to nonreligious people just as much as religious, however little we'd like to think so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thyroid Posted January 19, 2009 OK, I agree with you up to a point... but I don't know if child-killing is really on the same level as posters... It's not, but having the attitude of "I'm offended by your use of the term BC" is on par with saying "Islam/Christianity/Judaism/whatever is wrong". I just drew a bad analogy. It's not like believing that there is no god will solve anything, mind you. If we all decide we're atheists we're going to find something new to fight about. You know: skin colour, origin, heritage. I may be wrong but didn't the Tutsi and the Hutu essentially slaughter each other over nose-sizes? Fanaticism is the real problem. How's that? If there is a god (or more), then why would it suck to be me (i.e. an atheist)? Let's say there is a god, in order for suckage this god would find it important/vital to be worshiped. But what if this god doesn't like to be worshiped? Then it wouldn't suck to be me, but it would suck to be a worshiper. Let's say there are multiple gods, maybe the other gods wouldn't like you worshiping the just one of them. It would probably be worse to them if you worship just one, rather than none at all. This all assuming that the god(s) even give a shit. Nah... I'd rather play games I agree with you. I was thinking of the God of the three major religions, who wants people to worship him. Hell and all that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted January 19, 2009 btw... I just realized that so far the discussion has mostly been about worshiping god(s)/prophets. And this often also gets the most attention when people talk about religion. But there are also quite a lot of people who "follow" a religion not because of the whole supernatural beings and final gain/loss (e.g. heaven/hell), but simply because of certain life "rules". For example, the bible/qur'an/etc. is a work of fiction, but it contains life lessons or guidelines you can live by (just like many other works of fiction contain them). I think the latter is much better, because in that case you are living for yourself, rather than for those supernatural beings. Going back to the whole in-your-face interfacing which is commonly associated with Religion. There are also other religions (note the lowercase 'r') with similar attitudes. For example vegetarians/vegans, PETA, Greenpeace, ... Members of those groups can be just as terrible (and often even worse) as people following a Religion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SignorSuperdouche Posted January 19, 2009 That's a great point elmuerte. I am an atheist but I have no interest in promoting atheism. What I want to see promoted is an understanding of the scientific method and critical evaluation skills so that people spot bullshit of any kind. I want people to question authority and be able to spot rhetoric and logical fallacies a mile off. These tools led me to becoming an atheist, and are far more important and useful than atheism itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted January 19, 2009 How's that? If there is a god (or more), then why would it suck to be me (i.e. an atheist)?Let's say there is a god, in order for suckage this god would find it important/vital to be worshiped. But what if this god doesn't like to be worshiped? Then it wouldn't suck to be me, but it would suck to be a worshiper. Let's say there are multiple gods, maybe the other gods wouldn't like you worshiping the just one of them. It would probably be worse to them if you worship just one, rather than none at all. This all assuming that the god(s) even give a shit. Hah! So what you are saying is that Pascal's Wager logically recommends joining a polytheistic religion - they have more gods, so statistically they are more likely to have a god that exists. It's like betting on red rather than number 12. Hinduism here I come! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted January 19, 2009 Let's not get vegetarians/vegans confused with animal rights activists ¬¬ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syntheticgerbil Posted January 19, 2009 Wrong thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted January 19, 2009 No I was referring to this: Going back to the whole in-your-face interfacing which is commonly associated with Religion. There are also other religions (note the lowercase 'r') with similar attitudes. For example vegetarians/vegans, PETA, Greenpeace, ... Members of those groups can be just as terrible (and often even worse) as people following a Religion. I don't think those things can be referred to as religions correctly, I mean "vegetarians/vegans"? You may have met one or two who were a bit vocal about what they do, but I've met FAR more meat eaters who have been hideously anti-vegetarian or come out with retarded statements like "but that's terrible, you'll never taste a mcdonalds hamburger!" So if you say that vegetarianism is/can be a "religion" then so can eating meat, and so can anything else, which makes the word "religion" pointless and is completely NO. I REFUSE TO GET DRAWN INTO AN INTERNET DISCUSSION ABOUT RELIGION. BYE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted January 19, 2009 Hah! So what you are saying is that Pascal's Wager logically recommends joining a polytheistic religion - they have more gods, so statistically they are more likely to have a god that exists. It's like betting on red rather than number 12. It depends on how you distribute the odds. If you start with the 0.5 = there is a god; 0.5 there is no god. Then from the 0.5 of there is a god part you have 0.5 there is 1 god, and 0.5 there are more gods. therefor in absolute 0.25 there is 1 god, and 0.25 there are more gods. From the 0.25 there is 1 god, there is a 0.5 it wants to be worshiped, and 0.5 it doesn't want to be worshiped. In that case you would have a 0.125 chance that worshiping a single god is favorable to you. In that case you would be much better of not worshiping a single god. There are too many uncertainties to create a proper model. Pascal's model doesn't account possibility that the god doesn't want to be worshiped. Or that you are worshiping incorrectly (i.e. golden calf thingy). Anyway... interesting read about Pascal's Wager. And I think I should read Dawkin's The God Delusion. Let's not get vegetarians/vegans confused with animal rights activists ¬¬ I wasn't, but vegetarians/vegans are sometimes also very aggressive in pushing their ideas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted January 19, 2009 Yes vegetarians can sometimes be aggressive pushing their ideas, so can anyone. You're being aggressive pushing your ideas. I was aggressive pushing this idea. I was aggressive yesterday pushing a certain type of food on my cat. Why is a vegetarian getting special attention here, why on earth are you saying that vegetarianism is in any way like a religion? Why is this important to any conversation at all ever? Because by that logic I could say that eating meat is a religion, because I've met people who are forceful about that. Or liking cats is a religion, because I've met some people who like cats more than dogs and are very opinionated about it. Hey liking dogs is a religion too. So is liking rats. So is liking Red Stripe more than Stella. So is liking white wine more than red wine - I'm very opinionated about that, and if someone would like to disagree and say that red wine is better then maybe that's a religion too. All with a lowercase r of course. NO THIS ISN'T HAPPENING. BYE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted January 19, 2009 Hahaha worst refusal to participate in a discussion ever. You know it really doesn't work if you keep coming back for a 'one more thing'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted January 19, 2009 "Science is like a religion". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SignorSuperdouche Posted January 19, 2009 video games are a religion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marek Posted January 19, 2009 HITLER IS A RELIGION. /thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted January 19, 2009 God wins, law! (you see what I did there? neat isn't it? ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHoatzin Posted January 20, 2009 I only read vegan bibles myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
