Double Shock

[toblix]

So, I read here that the game won't end when you die, but that you regenerate in a "nearby pod" and continue right away. Now that sounds awesome.

[Oath]

I wasn't going to buy Bioshock, but a couple of weeks ago, when the marketing push started, my opinion began changing. Give it the week that's left until release and I'll probably have to get it, even though it looks much too scary for me.

[Redwall]

Is this really a surprise? Didn't the same thing happen in both System Shocks?

[toblix]

What, the regeneration? I honestly don't remember.

[manny_c44]

Yeah regeneration is from System Shock...and the turrets and the hacking and the vending machine upgrades and the audio logs etc. It seems like it is pretty much System Shock 2 lite from the little I've read.

I have to admit I was hoping the game would focus around exploring and interacting with the environments and characters in a non-shooter fashion, but it seems like it's primarily an FPS. Strange that SS2 was released 9 years ago and the game design crept back towards run-and-gun in the interim. But who knows it could be really good; maybe the developers did make steps forward in other areas that just haven't been mentioned in preview coverage.

I have to give it a shot at least, Art Deco fan that I am.

[ysbreker]

Yeah regeneration is from System Shock...and the turrets and the hacking and the vending machine upgrades and the audio logs etc. It seems like it is pretty much System Shock 2 lite from the little I've read.

Well except for the fact that this one is getting rave reviews just about everywhere and that this one is actually going to sell well (I think).

The PC version is pre-ordered here. I can't wait to dive into rapture

[DanJW]

Strange Manny, I've got the opposite impression from the reviews - all those System Shock 2 features haven't been watered down at all, and in some cases have been expanded on. At one point in the Eurogamer review it was sounding like hardly an FPS at all. The clarified that it is later on, but well, it is an FPS. But from what I can tell you could well get through most of the game being sneaky and not fighting much head-on at all.

[manny_c44]

I agree it's strange, I've read the same reviews and they do give the impression of an open-ended game. But then gameplay videos focus mostly around firefights, interviews focus on how the game feels like a tight FPS and a recent interview with Ken Levine discusses how the game eschews the RPG stat-building of the original into something more palpable:

The key difference [between Bioshock and System Shock 2's character development] is that our goal was to make everything immediate to the player, who would instantly understand the cause and effects of these dozens of powers. RPGs are somewhat abstract and "stat-based." We wanted the player to feel the effects of his character growth directly by his interaction with the world.

Which means what? Maybe that each new "power" lends new and interesting depth to gameplay...or maybe it just means you get a fancy new spell in the traditional action-game sense. An example: freezing the enemy and then shattering him with your gun strikes me as devolution rather than an extension of Systems Shock's attempt at complex world interaction.

I'm sure it will be an innovative FPS in some respects, but I was hoping the team would continue to shed the genre baggage. Maybe they do, I'll just have to see.

[LOPcagney]

I agree it's strange, I've read the same reviews and they do give the impression of an open-ended game. But then gameplay videos focus mostly around firefights, interviews focus on how the game feels like a tight FPS and a recent interview with Ken Levine discusses how the game eschews the RPG stat-building of the original into something more palpable:

Which means what? Maybe that each new "power" lends new and interesting depth to gameplay...or maybe it just means you get a fancy new spell in the traditional action-game sense. An example: freezing the enemy and then shattering him with your gun strikes me as devolution rather than an extension of Systems Shock's attempt at complex world interaction.

I'm sure it will be an innovative FPS in some respects, but I was hoping the team would continue to shed the genre baggage. Maybe they do, I'll just have to see.

From my understanding from the developer interviews and gameplay videos, I think they mean that the upgrades you equip take effect instantly and you can switch your powers out instantly to experiment with various combinations.

[toblix]

Wasn't there something about the Bioshock! marketing being targeted towards the FPS crowd more than the game itself?

[Marek]

I played the demo, and I was impressed, but I still don't know what kind of game this really is. I think, in order for it to actually sell, the marketing message may have been focused on the FPS parts. But who knows.

I'm going to buy it though. I really like the atmosphere and mise-en-scene (thank you Ken Levine ) and the reviews have all been amazing so far.

Also Shack just reviewed it:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48499

[Nick]

I'm sad that I have to wait till pay day before I can get this. In my opinion it looks fucking awesome and I can't wait to play it.

:tup: :tup:

[brkl]

I'm sad that I don't have a damn 360 to play this with :/ Maybe I'll buy it and caress the box for hours and hours.

[miffy495]

I'm sad that I'm camping when it's released. On the plus side, I can start playing next weekend if my local EB still has copies when I return.

[Nick]

Why not combine the two and camp outside the shop ¬¬

[lobotomy42]

Hmm...this game seems to be getting an awful lot of good press, but I still don't want it. Am I crazy? Am I missing something? It looks like Deus Ex underwater? I mean, I love the art style and the story and stuff, but as mentioned above, every preview just talks about "all the different ways to kill stuff" which, as far as I can tell, is the same bunch of ways you've always been able to kill stuff in an RPG/Shooter hybrid - stealth, guns, or magics. This doesn't seem that new? Or new at all?

Can someone on the Thumbs staff write a scathing review of it once its out to justify my completely arbitrary prejudices?

[lobotomy42]

The duality of an ocean-floor Xanadu in complete disrepair serves as a prelude to the duplicity of Rapture's inhabitants

This, by the way, is an awesome beginning of a sentence.

[LOPcagney]

It looks like Deus Ex underwater?

I can't find anything wrong with that...

[Noyb]

It looks like Deus Ex underwater?

I can't find anything wrong with that...

Well, you can if you try to describe aloud it to friends that way. I'm not sure if I was failing to enunciate properly, or they have some Freudian issues, but they heard it as "gay sex underwater."

Yes, I'm aware that Deus has two syllables. And that Thumbs doesn't need any more questionable google hits.

[elmuerte]

every preview just talks about "all the different ways to kill stuff" which, as far as I can tell, is the same bunch of ways you've always been able to kill stuff in an RPG/Shooter hybrid - stealth, guns, or magics. This doesn't seem that new? Or new at all?

For example:

You can light someone on fire and they'll run to water to extinguish the fire, when they are in the water you can electrocute them. Or, they might simply continue running to you and set you on fire.

Or you can use a big daddy to get rid of some people. You can made the big daddy think (can be done in several ways) one of the other people tried to hurt the little sister and the big daddy will attack them.

And there is of course the head on option where you kill them yourself.

So,,, it comes down to killing people through environment hazards (either existing or created by yourself), using NPCs or doing it yourself.

That sounds like a way that is quite new for games. Usually when you can do things like that it's strictly scripted. OR very limited.

[DanJW]

Or you can hack into the security and get that to kill them for you - which falls under "NPCs" I guess.

Or you combine all these any any way you see it.

Yes, the game is an FPS. Some people seem to be dissapointed with that for some reason. However, it sounds like posibly the best single player FPS ever made and a true step forward for the medium.

[toblix]

I'm not satisfied until I can devise clever, unscripted traps based only on the environment and whatever simulation engines there are. Like placing a rug over a hole, and because the enemy doesn't see it, it doesn't think it's there and falls into it, not because it's an instance of RugCoveredPitTrap.

[brkl]

Welcome back in 50 years.

[toblix]

My friend, in 50 years I'll be dead.

[elmuerte]

I'm not satisfied until I can devise clever, unscripted traps based only on the environment and whatever simulation engines there are. Like placing a rug over a hole, and because the enemy doesn't see it, it doesn't think it's there and falls into it, not because it's an instance of RugCoveredPitTrap.

Give it 3 to 9 months before someone will announce that idea.

That trick is already possible (well at least in UE3 using PhysX and ai-implant or Kynapse).

PhysX includes cloth simulation, of course you could also use very thin plywood that would simply break.

ai-implant and Kynapse can dynamically adjust waypoints and reach specs according to changes in the environment. Usually used to create obstructions. But you can also introduce new paths (all dynamically).

The more interesting point, how long until we can actually be macgyver in a game.