Thrik Posted June 21, 2007 I don't think it's really much of a stretch to assume that the game's ended up being significantly more obscene an experience overall than than its predecessor. Especially when you factor in the Wiimote being used. Guess none of us know except the raters, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n0wak Posted June 21, 2007 Especially when you factor in the Wiimote being used. The PS2 version is rated equally and it's been said that the controls had nothing to do with the rating, it was strictly content. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted June 21, 2007 http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2005/05/31/film050531.htmlWhat is there in Manhunt 2 that is that much more offensive? I have a hard time thinking that the "casual sadism" has been scaled up that much from the first game. From what the BBFC have said here, it seems that in the first game you were essentially fighting for your life. In this game a large amount of the violence is less justified being there simply for the sake of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n0wak Posted June 21, 2007 From what the BBFC have said here, it seems that in the first game you were essentially fighting for your life. In this game a large amount of the violence is less justified being there simply for the sake of it. Totally like those banned movies "Saw" and "Hostel" and "Touristas" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrik Posted June 21, 2007 I didn't really mean in the sense of it having a bearing on the rating n0wak, I just meant I think it's perfectly likely that Manhunt 2 as a general package is a lot more disturbing than its predecessor (in response to you not thinking the casual sadism has been scaled up). I still think it probably has been, and the Wiimote actions would just add to that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BooJaka Posted June 21, 2007 Totally like those banned movies "Saw" and "Hostel" and "Touristas" I would imagine their main point with that is the fact that it's more interactive than watching it done in a film Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted June 21, 2007 Well, no. It is an age limiter, and the law backs that definition up. I completely appreciate your assertion that people could be suitable for an 18-rated film or game earlier than actually being aged 18, but it's unlikely to be too much earlier or too much later. I know it's treated like a hard age limit. But the idea behind it is actually for maturity, but that's sort of difficult o test. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsps Posted June 22, 2007 http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2005/05/31/film050531.htmlIt's a touchy issue. Obviously, Canada is less ban-hammer-happy than places like the UK and Australia and Germany, but being AO puts it into murky waters. If the game was rated M, I think that legally it could NOT be banned. But being AO puts it into another category so the jury's still out. One thing I'm wondering and I haven't seen addressed anywhere. The first Manhunt game was rated M. What is there in Manhunt 2 that is that much more offensive? I have a hard time thinking that the "casual sadism" has been scaled up that much from the first game. It comes across to me as a rating based more on reputation and history than the content of the game, as if the ESRB is saying "we don't want to go through that again." I've found no clear answer to this. Thanks for the link. One more thing in regards to SiN's question about Canada being more lenient than the US, and it actually applies to a lot of the European countries as well: Very few films in the US are rated NC-17, whereas films rated for 18 and up are quite common in other countries. So children under 17 can see an R-rated movie if accompanied by an adult. NC-17 has an unfair stigma (porn makers don't submit their films for rating, yet many uninformed people assume that NC-17 is porn). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BooJaka Posted June 24, 2007 So what is actually happening with this game? Is it condemned and delayed worldwide because of America's AO rating or is it still getting a release in Europe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted June 24, 2007 Apparently Take Two have postponed its release indefinitely. So it may reappear at some point in the future, or it may not. For now it is effectively banned everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BooJaka Posted June 24, 2007 Pretty lame. I heard that was the case in America but, surprise surprise, no one ever mentions Europe... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrik Posted June 24, 2007 Well, it was kind of Europe that started the whole thing. Unless you don't count the UK as part of Europe. No ability to sell in those two huge markets = retail suicide, thus inevitable delay to sort the game out. I can't see them releasing an uncut version early and then delaying the other markets for ages while they censor it to pieces (and go through the QA and god knows what else to get it fit for release). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiN Posted June 24, 2007 It's not a matter of "can they sell it in North America" or "can they sell it in Europe" ... it's a matter of "can they publish it on the Wii and PS2". And the answer is no. The Big Three have a policy stating that they won't approve AO games for release on their respective consoles. That's that. The only thing Take2 can do with the game in it's current form is port it to the PC and sell it online. SiN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrik Posted June 24, 2007 Okay, but surely that'd be country specific? It'd be madness to not sell a game on the console worldwide just because one of the countries in its domain gave it a high rating. Just because it's the US shouldn't mean it implicates Japan, Europe, Australia and everywhere else. I don't really know how Nintendo/Sony and their decisions on a country-by-country basis generally go, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BooJaka Posted June 25, 2007 Yeah see, that's where I was getting confused. While I understand that it would be more than a little pointless to release two versions of the game with the delay and all that, just because they don't want to release it with the American AO rating surely doesn't mean everyone suffers. But I guess it does Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twmac Posted June 25, 2007 Okay, cool you guys started talkilng about distrubution. The reality is that, in most cases, a company will change the raing of a game by cutting the points of contention. Fuck all of that, if the game is good and is rated in proportion with what is happening. What does it matter? I'm fucking sick of parents pointing the finger when thye allow their kids to watch ' Hell's Kitchen, 'Survivor# and all those other shitty realiy programs. Fuck that, educate your child and they will uncerdstand the difference between right and wrong. Ban shit and all it will do is encourage children to track down these banned subjects Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n0wak Posted June 25, 2007 The only thing Take2 can do with the game in it's current form is port it to the PC and sell it online. Or they can be the new Tengen and release it on consoles anyway... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted June 25, 2007 Well, it was kind of Europe that started the whole thing. Unless you don't count the UK as part of Europe. In this case it's the UK not Europe. The BBFC banned it, and the BBFC has no influence in the PEGI rating system (well, soundn't anyway). There hasn't been any information from the PEGI about Manhunt, and there probably never will be now that it has been punt down. As for germany, I can't find any details if the USK (=rating institution) or BPjM (=Banned list) even reviewed the game. Manhunt 1 was banned, so Manhunt 2 will probably be banned too. Fun thing to note is that submission to USK is not required, not doing will automatically result in an 18+ rating. And 18+ games may not be put on shelves, but they can still be sold. But BPjM listed games may not be sold at all. But the ban by the BBFC was probably what resulted in the AO ESRB instead of M. Simply because the ESRB is playing safe because of the Hot Coffee heat they were given. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted June 27, 2007 looks like they're on a role, what with the bannings Burnout billboard banned, balefully Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted June 27, 2007 So all it takes is 37 complaints? And it was offensive? To whom?! To people that died in a burning car? And "encourage violence, dangerous driving or vandalism." Vandalism.. maybe. Violence? because of the text? Well.. it can be true, you can get inner peace in jail or in a coffin. But dangerous driving!? I seriously doubt that because they show what can happen in case of dangerous driving. So.. posters will also have to be rated now? I could name a few movie posters I would consider "offensive" or "encourage violence, dangerous driving or vandalism." Actually... I can even name a few good will posters or PSA posters that I find offensive or could consider as encouraging violence, dangerous driving or vandalism. PS, http://www.kahrashin.com/, actually quite funny if you ask me. PPS, took some digging, but this is the offending poster: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrik Posted June 27, 2007 Heh, kind of mental. I think I read somewhere a while ago though that it takes relatively few complaints in television circles to initiate an investigation and often measures, as not that many people do actually complain for the most part. The same possibly applies to games. Which is shit, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noyb Posted June 27, 2007 Chris Kohler over at Wired found some analysis from Newsweek from journalists who actually played the game, as well as some comparisons to the original Manhunt and other forms of violent media. Worth a read, especially with all of this speculation going on. http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/newsweek-mtv-pl.html Also, I seem to remember reading around the time of the Hot Coffee incident that the ESRB does not actually play the games that it rates, just views developer-submitted scenes of representative gameplay and edge-pushing content. Was this true? Is it still true? There's something to be said about rapid-fire viewing of decontextualized violence shaping someone's perception of the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BooJaka Posted June 27, 2007 IGN has a fairly good article up about how classifications and censorship works which fits in quite well with this topic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestlevania Posted June 27, 2007 looks like they're on a role, what with the banningsBurnout billboard banned, balefully "Calm down, dear!" This happens in the advertising industry at least once a month. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites