vimes

Does the Wii nead *real games* ?

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From Gamespot

February 14--Wii Play with Wii Remote--Nintendo

March 27--Disney's Meet the Robinsons--Buena Vista

March--Bust-A-Move Bash--Majesco

March--Prince of Persia Rival Swords--Ubisoft

March--TMNT (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)--Ubisoft

March--Bionicle Heroes--Eidos

March--Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII--Ubisoft

Q1--Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07--EA

Q1--SSX Blur--EA

Q1--The Godfather: Blackhand Edition--EA

Q1--Medal of Honor: Vanguard--EA

Q1--Sonic and the Secret Rings--Sega

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Also, personally, I'm glad that I don't have to do a forward jab, vertical swing, etc etc gestures with my hand to get Link to do that move. The small flick of the wrist is a nice representational iconic gesture, but it's good that that's as far as you have to go, and can modify it on top of that with buttons. I want to know that my sword swings are doing what I want, and not leave it up to chance that when I really want to do a forward stab motion, the game might misinterpret my contorted wrist as a vertical slice or spin attack. Like in Wii Sports Baseball, I'm really glad you don't have to start from some crazy twisted wrist position and uncurl your hand to throw a curve. If that was the case, I don't think I'd ever throw a successful curveball.

Maybe this is just me, but how is "Lock on with Z...now move forward with the joystick...now swing" any more reliable a method of doing a forward stab than just doing a forward stab? I find myself screwing it up more often than I get it right, since half my brain is thinking "motion sensor to swing!" while my other half is thinking "but, um, use the buttons and control stick to alter the type of swing!" The whole process gets even weirder when I'm a wolf, because at that point there's no godly reason why swinging the remote should make the wolf lunge forward and bite.

*sigh*

And what's with all these games using small iconic gestures? I don't want small iconic gestures. That's just swapping out button presses for...well, iconic gestures. Wasn't the whole point of this thing to find new ways to play and make gaming easier and all that good stuff? I thought moving the remote could actually translate directly into moving stuff onscreen?

Grrrr. I'm just whining at this point. I know that in a year, some real games will come out and it'll all be good. But in the meantime, I'm frustrated that I spent $400 on a Wii, games and accessories only to find myself doing nothing but using "Everybody Votes Channel" all the time. So rant I shall.

Zelda's Wii controls suck (a little bit), and I'm sticking by that.

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Although I personally like the Zelda controls, I agree with you that they are tacked on since there are definitely no new kind of control mechanisms whatsoever here but indeed just button precess replaced with iconic gestures. Or actually, the fishing thing is an exception (somewhat), but that's such a small part of it that it doesn't really count.

But honestly, I never expected anything different -- after all this game is also on the cube and noone expected them to make two completely different versions.

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Ok, I used the wrong word. I mean there is nothing in the controls that couldn't be done without the Wiimote, everything would work just as well with a regular controller.

Compare it to the tennis game. You could also say that it could be done by pressing buttons instead of imitating real tennis, but it seems fundamentally different to me. I think that's exactly because in the tennis game your hand mimics what happens in the game, while in Zelda the movements only correlate somewhat. And it's not cohesive because you do some things with buttons but some with gestures.

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Well the aiming mechanic and the fishing mechanic are both fundamentally different.

The swordplay I feel very ambivalent about. On the one hand when I went to play Wind Waker afterwards I found myself wanting to swing the GC controller around

On the other hand I dislike the slight delay and uncertainty inherent in the motion based controls, it's not as guaranteed as a button press and additional gestures (for stabbing and thrusting or whatever) would only have made this worse....

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Ok, I used the wrong word. I mean there is nothing in the controls that couldn't be done without the Wiimote, everything would work just as well with a regular controller.

How is that a bad thing? The Zelda controls aren't broke. Does the Wii need real "traditional" games? Yes, and Nintendo delivered a huge one at launch. Now the thread about whether or not there will be traditional games on the Wii is lamenting the fact that Zelda is a traditional game on the Wii.

Wait until you play Mario Galaxy. It's ... classic 3D Mario to its very core. The Wii remote is used pretty frequently, but almost never to actually control Mario. Is that bad? No, it's awesome. With the Wii you can have it both ways.

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How is that a bad thing? The Zelda controls aren't broke.

Yes, I agree. It's not bad at all, and in fact I said I liked the controls. The only point I was arguing was wether the controls are "tacked on" or not. Maybe the language barrier is at work again, but I see "tacked on" as meaning they are not an essential part of the experience.

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I can understand people being disappointed with the Wii's hybrid motion/traditional controls for Zelda*. But even Nintendo couldn't be expected to get something as revolutionary as motion control "right" with a first-generation title surely?

I don't think this point leaves Nintendo with egg on their face, but I thin what it does say is people have high expectations for motion control--which is surprising, given how young a consumer technology it is.

* I still haven't even seen a Wii yet, so I've no opinion on the subject.

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I'm with Erkki on this one. I've said earlier that the Zelda controls feel tacked on. I stand by this. The only thing that enhanced the experience was the aiming mechanic. Aiming was never a problem before though, so it wasn't a big deal. That's not to say I didn't love the game, or its controls. The fact that there was no learning curve for someone who's played all the previous Zeldas shows just how smooth the transition to the new method was. Still, there is a big difference between enjoyable and necessary, and in this regard the controls were, as we've been putting it, "tacked on."

Again, love the game. Love the controls. Looking forward to more "traditional" (whatever the hell that means) games on the Wii. But "tacked on" seems to be a valid description to me nonetheless.

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IAiming was never a problem before though, so it wasn't a big deal.

Look, I just played TP on the GameCube. I don't know how I'd fare with the Wii version, but aiming is a huge fucking problem sometimes. It's just too slow.

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Slow, perhaps. I've never run into any puzzle that required overly-fast aiming though. The game has always allowed a decent amount of time to aim, making the slow aiming acceptable. It's nice that it could be done quicker on the Wii, but not something that needed to be done.

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Just a couple of recommendations, in case anyone believes the Wii to be a wasteland of "proper" games.

I've played both Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam, Excite Truck and Kororinpa extensively. Tony Hawk is a bit less precise than the best arcade racers, but still an absolute blast. Excite Truck, on the other hand, is better than almost all arcade racers I've tried, and a real treat. Kororinpa arrived today, and has so far been one-more-go heaven. None of these are particularly suited for parties, even though they all feature competitive two-player.

Of course, then there's Zelda, but you obviously know that one already. Call of Duty 3 is decent, but lacks originality and could be more tactically varied. Red Steel is fun, but cheap in every respect, and Super Monkey Ball looks fabulous, but lacks the gameplay substance to back up the graphics. Madden 07 is extremely hard to get into (I've tried) when you don't know the sport (or more importantly, the names, pros and cons of different tactical combinations) -- while Far Cry Vengeance is fun but also feels a bit cheap (and features awful AI). I think Wii Sports is capable of delivering satisfying single player goodness as well, but I guess that's disputable.

Yeah, it's not overly impressive, but with at least four excellent single player, traditional games at my disposal (zelda, tony, excite, kororinpa), of which I've yet to finish a single one, I'm not feeling the fear of software drought anymore.

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Madden 07 is extremely hard to get into (I've tried) when you don't know the sport (or more importantly, the names, pros and cons of different tactical combinations)

In every Madden game I've played there has been an ask Madden option for which play to select, it is not always right but will get a beginner through the game.

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