toblix

Halo2 WTF?!

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Okay, so the level design is like a continuation of the end of Halo, with corridors and close-quarter battles? Great. Tone down the one thing Halo actually rocked at, which was driving around in the Warthog, Mr. Bungie MAN!

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Um, could you provide some kind of context for this post?

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Hardly. I heard they've focused almost exclusively on close quarters battling and stuff, though, like in Halo 1 in that spaceship with all the corridors. That's pretty stupid. I mean, even if you've never played a proper (PC) first person shooter, you will agree that the only thing above average in Halo was the vehicle physics in general, the Warthog physics in particular. I wonder why they didn't just make an arcadey racing game of it, since that's what it's all about.

Also, even though I've never had a drink in my whole life, I seem totally drunk in that first post, except for the italics tag, which I in no way could've used if I was in fact drunk.

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Even though I hated Halo and I thought it was one of the most disappointing games ever, I'm still getting Halo 2 because of it's x-box live support and even though penny arcade didn't like the first game, they seem to like the 2nd one.

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I agree with LeChimp (oh and I loved CMi unlike alot of other people), but since I don't have an Xbox I won't be getting Halo 2, and to be honest the Chris Remo pandering Halo 2 hype preview is the only one I've looked at so far. So I'm still not sure whats different or what it looks like.

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.... I think he means that in HALO, althought the outdoors battles ruled, the indoors felt cramped, stupid, and were repeated over and over, down to enemy positionins, and he says that in Halo 2 if they do more close quarters levels it's gonna suck, and I agree, unless bungie comes up with a way to, I dunno, NOT repeat every single room 20 times over (cough assault on the control room cough)

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Bungie doesn't have to "come up with a way" to have the levels be less repetitive. Rather, Microsoft has to just not pressure them to lengthen the game artificially this time around. Considering how much money Halo 2 is automatically going to make, it would be pointless for Microsoft not to simply give them complete freedom. Plus, Bungie is well aware of the criticisms some people have of the first game. I'm not sure if certain people remember this, but Bungie has always been a great company who has had great relations with their fans, have hired many talented people from their fan community, have made many great games, and are well aware of how their games are received. They are not "the Halo company" above all else, and are utterly capable of making a game that improves upon its already quality predecessor.

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Wow. This is the first gaming forum I think I've ever been to where someone said something negative about the allmighty H and didn't get flamed. On that note, Halo sucks, but I am holding my reservations about Halo 2. I'll check it out when they port it to the PC.

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Wow. This is the first gaming forum I think I've ever been to where someone said something negative about the allmighty H and didn't get flamed. On that note, Halo sucks, but I am holding my reservations about Halo 2. I'll check it out when they port it to the PC.

Why? Halo PC wasn't nearly as awesome as it was on the Xbox. The only thing that was more appealing was the online multiplayer and the Custom Edition, but nobody played it and Gearbox gave up on it.(And, considering what a flop Halo PC was, I wouldn't hold my breath for a Halo 2 port.) Halo simply isn't a PC FPS, it was tailored for the Xbox and it plays best on it.

I loved Halo. Every bit of it. Tell me it isn't fun plowing into a crowd of grunts in the warthog. Tell me it isn't fun to tango with a Hunter and plant a bullet in it's back. Tell me you didn't jump when a camoflauged elite with a fucking energy sword snuck up behind you. And if you haven't played the whole game on legendary co-op, you haven't played the game. There are so many subtle things about Halo's gameplay that when you add them up, you get a game that's still a blast to play three years later. Add in the great story and you get a pretty solid game.

So why do so many people dislike it so passionately?

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So why do so many people dislike it so passionately?

Boring repetitive levels, you basically fight the same 3 monsters through the game, unoriginal weapons, the story wasn't THAT original (aliens attack), it feels like the most generic fps ever. It's not that it's a horrible game, it's just a very mediocre one that everyone thought was awesome just become it was the only non-crappy fps for a console.

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Boring repetitive levels, you basically fight the same 3 monsters through the game, unoriginal weapons, the story wasn't THAT original (aliens attack), it feels like the most generic fps ever. It's not that it's a horrible game, it's just a very mediocre one that everyone thought was awesome just become it was the only non-crappy fps for a console.

I felt exactly the same way about some of the levels. While playing the Library, the only sentiment in my head wasn't, "Cool!", and it wasn't, "Eeek!", it was "Oh, god! When is this going to end."

That much said, the game had its redeeming qualities - things that made it one of the best games I've ever played - namely, the story and general gameplay. One of the few reasons keeping me going through the game was my desire to find out more.

That said, I won't be getting Halo 2 because I don't own, nor do I intend on getting, an Xbox. But my roommate's getting it, so most likely I'll play it sometime. :)

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...the story wasn't THAT original (aliens attack).

I beg to differ. The amount of work Bungie has put into Halo's story is amazing . There's tons of symbolsim in the game (I'd give you a link to some examples, but the site doesn't seem to be working now). It really isn't just "aliens attack". You seem to be forgetting about the forerunner, the flood, the deep religious hatred the covenant have for mankind, and the mysteries of the Halos. The Spartan program, Sgt. Johnson's immunity to the flood...the list goes on. Many of the answers are not answered in the first game, and several of the questions are hidden (pay careful attention in particular to what 343 Guilty Spark has to say and you might find a few) which is why Halo 2 is going to be huge, at least for me. The #1 reason I'm buying Halo 2 is the continuation of the story. The sweet gameplay is just an added bonus.

EDIT: This isn't the site I wanted to link to, but it does show just how much the Halo universe has been fleshed out: The Library

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There's tons of symbolsim in the game (I'd give you a link to some examples, but the site doesn't seem to be working now). It really isn't just "aliens attack". You seem to be forgetting about the forerunner, the flood, the deep religious hatred the covenant have for mankind, and the mysteries of the Halos. The Spartan program, Sgt. Johnson's immunity to the flood...the list goes on. Many of the answers are not answered in the first game, and several of the questions are hidden (pay careful attention in particular to what 343 Guilty Spark has to say and you might find a few) which is why Halo 2 is going to be huge, at least for me. The #1 reason I'm buying Halo 2 is the continuation of the story. The sweet gameplay is just an added bonus.

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The Forerunners were basically excuses for why Halo exists, the religious hatred the covenant have for mankind is more of an explanation for why it's kille veryone, the spartan program, Johnson's immunity aren't even in the game, just in the books, and in Halo 2 so that's null.

Also: The flood sucked because it wasn't scary, it was annoying. I mean I didn't feel like I felt when I was walking through the ship in System Shock 2, or when I was walking in the colony as a marine in AVP2, I felt annoyed. I liked the story, but people are exaggerating it a bit, it really isn't that great without the books.

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So why do so many people dislike it so passionately?

I don't dislike it passionately. In fact, I am totally impassionate about the game. I just feel that if it was released originally on the PC, it would have been mediocre, and the XBox versions controls drag it down to being crappy. Since I make a point to not hold the controls against the game, I stick with calling it very mediocre. I did nothing new, nothing innovative, and has nothing that I couldn't find in a dozen better titles. As to Halo 2 not coming out on the PC, well thats just not Microsofts style. I realize it bombed. But I also realize that MS cannot hold on to an exclusive title for the life of them. I'd give it a year at most.

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The secret is, most FPS games are actually really generic, and Halo less so than most. How many straight FPS games (that is, not hybrids like Deus Ex) actually deliver as deep an experience as Halo? Half-Life is one, no question. System Shock 2 fits the bill from what I've heard, but that was out five years ago. More recently than that? Far Cry? Maybe, but that game is just as repetitive and definitely has fewer enemies than Halo. Doom 3? Yeah, right. Any of the Unreal games? None of them have a REAL campaign, except Unreal 2, and I hardly think that's the best candidate. Anything like Call of Duty or Medal of Honor? WW2 games are so different they can't even be compared, as they operate on wildly different mechanics. Anything I'm failing to mention is not deliberate, so please correct me. I don't want to claim Halo is unique, but I firmly believe it's not nearly as "generic" as everyone claims. It is DEFINITELY not the best there is, but when people start claiming they know of a "dozen" better comparable FPS games, I start to get suspicious. I mean, being the 13th best isn't actually all that bad, but I'm still not really convinced...

Criticising the "story" is ridiculous. What FPS has a good story? Half-Life? No, pretty much it has the same story as all the over FPS games. Aliens find a way through a portal, they attack. Halo's is no better, no worse. Aliens declare holy war on humans, you have to stop destruction of life. The story isn't the point, it's how it's told. Half-Life was almost superhumanly successful at telling its story; it still blows me away to this day. Halo is not quite such a brilliant storyteller but anyone who has completed the game will attest that they were very much drawn into the world and the events. You actually do get the feeling that you're waging a war against an alien race, and it's very convincing. Not to mention, no matter how you feel about the game's religious undertones and backstory lurking under the surface, it's there. It's not there at all in most FPS games.

"The same 3 enemies?" Unlike some of the level design, this is one area Halo pretty much shines in terms of quality over quantity. There are four main kinds of Covenant aliens, and each one must be dealt with in a different way. Unlike almost any other FPS game, you actually have to manage your weapons. This is actually important, since again unlike most FPS games you can only carry two. For example, jackals have shields that cannot be penetrated with projectile based weapons. If that's what you have you have to sneak around them and get them behind their shield. Or you take our their shield with energy weapons. Other enemies have actual body shields like Master Chief, rather than a physical shield they hold. Just within those four Covenent enemies, there are a huge amount of tactics that must be exercised. To quickly recycle enemies and bring in new ones would absolutely make the game less rewarding, since by the time you get good it's a great feeling to be able to actually dispatch each of those guys in your own personal way, since you've been learning to deal with it the whole time. And then on top of that there are the Flood, who have a bunch of different enemies, and that's not even taking into account all the different kind of Covenant vehicles and turrets which you have to deal with when you're outside. Anyway, let's be honest, here. Why would an alien force have a myriad different "types" of enemies? Where would these types come from? Again, this just makes the war all the more convincing, since you feel like you're fighting a cohesive force rather than some bizarre hodgepodge of almost randomly-generated demons or monsters. And in most games that do have such wacky forces, it's spoiled by having the enemies pretty much all take damage the same way. Sure, it's sometimes better to use a certain gun, but it's much less tactical. In Halo, every single gun in the game (including the "shitty" plasma pistol and the needler) is almost necessary at certain points throughout. You'll never stop needing them if you're really trying to play the game. The game's design is extraordinarily solid.

And speaking of weapons, "unoriginal weapons"?! How do you figure this?? I mean, it has a pistol and an asssault rifle and a rocket launcher, sure, but how many FPS games don't?? Plasma pistol with its charge-up shield-removal technique (a crucial part of taking out Elites) and rapid-fire technique (which can basically slow enemies to a crawl if you're fast enough with the trigger); needler which shoots tiny little combustive tracking explosives; ability to melee with any weapon, a crucial ability rather than a last resort, and every gun melees differently... Etc. How many games actually have a whole set of original weapons, and why would you even need that? When the weapons are as balanced, nuanced, and across-the-board useful as Halo's, how much more outrageous do they need to be?

Levels repetitive? Yes, and it's really frustrating. It's too bad that Bungie was rushed, but believe it or not the game is not actually unplayable. The gameplay is so ridiculously balanced and solid that it's not nearly as painful as it would be in a game where you simply run around with the same most-powerful-gun blasting everything. It's still annoying, but it doesn't make the game bad. If it's too much for you to deal with, then play it on cooperative mode and suddenly it's a lot more fun to be churning through these levels with a friend (speaking of features other FPS games don't have these days...). If it's still not fun enough or if you don't have any FPSing friends, then try out the multiplayer, which is still better than most of what's out there. Everything I said about weapon management is just as true in multiplayer, perhaps moreso because your opponents are doing it too. Add to that the gajillion built-in gametypes, almost all of which are a blast, and you have ludicrous replay value. By the way, for those ragging on the single-player compaign, don't forget that the thing that keeps most of us coming back to the game is its multiplayer, which still holds up. If you STILL don't enjoy it, Halo is not for you, too bad, but like it or not, it is not a bad or mediocre game. I don't really enjoy Counter-Strike (for example) much at all but I don't mind at all saying that it's a great game. I completely understand why so many people think it's excellent and play it so much, it's just not for me. Nothing wrong with that, I think.

I think a lot of the people who really don't like Halo are PC gamers who honestly haven't given it the time and effort it deserves to see how deep and complete a game it is. I can relate because I was once one of those gamers (I've only really started playing console games in the last few years). It was only due to the persistence of my Halo-playing friends that I played the game enough to realize how brilliantly-designed it is (and that's one thing that even many "good" FPS games are occasionally not).

I don't know why I'm going to so out of my way to defend Halo, since it doesn't really need to be defended. I'd do it for any game I think is this great, though, no matter how succesful it is.

EDIT: Don't forget the rechargable shield. That sounds lame, but it adds a LOT to the gameplay, especially in multiplayer.

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If your going to give a guy a bunch of wepons and tell him to run around and shoot an incredable number of enimes whose only meaning is to kill you, the number of really good stories you can tell isn't nessesarly huge. I think that Halo did a pritty good job in this respect, and with a new focus on this in the sequel it could turn out pritty good in that respect.

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Halo was a game I tracked for 2-3 years when it was being developed as a PC game (or so we thought) and at the time, the graphics, the fact there were actually vehicles in the game, the wide open environments (or so we thought) were all unique at the time. In a period when the best multiplayer FPS was TFC for Half Life these were truly groundbreaking features.

Then the horror news... the ebil Microsoft bought them up and it was only going to be released on the xbox....... THATS NO. 1 reason I resent HALO.

Anyway time passed, the screenshots kept me salivating, and I cracked... I bought an Xbox on their UK release and picked up Halo too. And for the 1st 4-5 levels I really enjoyed it. Yes the graphics had been surpassed mostly on the PC, but on a console I had never seen anything like it. But then the console's limitations started to show as the repetitive textures, levels and even fookin worse - actually doing the same levels backwards!! How fookin shit can you get? Getting lost because everywhere looked the same added insult to injury. If this was a PC game there would be no way this would happen! So after tiring of the game it became a coaster and a permanent reminder why console's suck. What should have been a legendary PC multiplayer game became another dumbed down dvd of dross thanks to Mr Gates and his quest to conquer our living rooms.

Thats why I resent it - thats why I wont be buying Halo 2 (Added to the fact I gave my xbox to my 6 year old cousin who tired of it after 2 months due to its games being for "Stupid people")

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Halo was a game I tracked for 2-3 years when it was being developed as a PC game (or so we thought) and at the time, the graphics, the fact there were actually vehicles in the game, the wide open environments (or so we thought) were all unique at the time. In a period when the best multiplayer FPS was TFC for Half Life these were truly groundbreaking features.

Then the horror news... the ebil Microsoft bought them up and it was only going to be released on the xbox....... THATS NO. 1 reason I resent HALO.

Anyway time passed, the screenshots kept me salivating, and I cracked... I bought an Xbox on their UK release and picked up Halo too. And for the 1st 4-5 levels I really enjoyed it. Yes the graphics had been surpassed mostly on the PC, but on a console I had never seen anything like it. But then the console's limitations started to show as the repetitive textures, levels and even fookin worse - actually doing the same levels backwards!! How fookin shit can you get? Getting lost because everywhere looked the same added insult to injury. If this was a PC game there would be no way this would happen! So after tiring of the game it became a coaster and a permanent reminder why console's suck. What should have been a legendary PC multiplayer game became another dumbed down dvd of dross thanks to Mr Gates and his quest to conquer our living rooms.

Thats why I resent it - thats why I wont be buying Halo 2 (Added to the fact I gave my xbox to my 6 year old cousin who tired of it after 2 months due to its games being for "Stupid people")

But it's out for PC now. :yep: And you probably know that.

Personally, I don't like any of the consoles (yes, I've tried them). So Halo 2 or not, I probably won't be getting an Xbox. Hopefully (maybe) Halo 2 will come out for the PC sometime soon. I can wait 2 years. Really, I can.

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Halo was a game I tracked for 2-3 years when it was being developed as a PC game (or so we thought) and at the time, the graphics, the fact there were actually vehicles in the game, the wide open environments (or so we thought) were all unique at the time. In a period when the best multiplayer FPS was TFC for Half Life these were truly groundbreaking features.

Then the horror news... the ebil Microsoft bought them up and it was only going to be released on the xbox....... THATS NO. 1 reason I resent HALO.

Thats why I resent it - thats why I wont be buying Halo 2 (Added to the fact I gave my xbox to my 6 year old cousin who tired of it after 2 months due to its games being for "Stupid people")

Ah, one of those people. I actually sympathise with you (although you don't deserve to be as frustrated as the Mac people), but I think that four years later it's time to get over the grudge. I know I did long ago.

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There' s a difference between Halo being developed for PC and Mac (as it was supposed to be) to Halo being crappily ported to PC and Mac (as it was). Plus, I wanna play Halo online for FREE, download new weapons, maps and mods for FREE, not pay 70 bucks/year for a subscription. PLUS 5 bucks per download.

EDIT: Apparently the collector's edition comes w/ 2 months free. Sweet.

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I tried Halo PC and it managed to run very slow while looking incredibly washed-out and low-detailed and ugly. So the gameplay couldn't have seemed good. I couldn't even play for 10 minutes.

But I should try it again someday now that I have a better PC (at least, I hope I tried it on my old PC. Can't remember)

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