Twin Peaks Rewatch 42: The Return, Part 8

[MarkHoog]

All I know is that this is the most expensive Windows screen saver I've ever seen.

[Gamebeast23456]

14 minutes ago, Crunchnoisy said:

The more I think about this episode, I realize that I liked pretty much everything...

 

... except the pervasive evidence that Twin Peaks is being reduced to Good-vs-Evil.  Everybody on this thread saying "it's too early to judge if it's going that way" are behaving like Star Wars Prequel apologists... you KNOW what you're looking at.  Stop trying to wiggle around it.

 

 The Frost Giant has turned into a Palmer Orb of Golden Goodness!

 

Sigh.

 

Yeah, this is the first time I've been told I know what I'm looking at. 

 

Anyway, here's a gallery of high-quality Episode Eight screengrabs from the Twin Peaks subreddit. I'm a decided screengrab fan. 

 

My biggest interest going for is Lynch keeping up a steady supply of interesting imagery and design, and worry about the implications of the lore much later. 

[Jhinton]

15 minutes ago, Crunchnoisy said:

The more I think about this episode, I realize that I liked pretty much everything...

 

... except the pervasive evidence that Twin Peaks is being reduced to Good-vs-Evil.  Everybody on this thread saying "it's too early to judge if it's going that way" are behaving like Star Wars Prequel apologists... you KNOW what you're looking at.  Stop trying to wiggle around it.

 

 The Frost Giant has turned into a Palmer Orb of Golden Goodness!

 

Sigh.

 

I don't know that is that. I think it's making that whole sequence a little too literal. It might not seem like there's a difference, but I think it's more Goodness V Badness being unleashed into the world, or rather a specific type of evil. There's a direct lineage from the atomic bomb to the evil that men do, which is Bob manifest. 

 

I took the image of him being 'born' as riding a wave of Garmanbozia, which as we know is pain and suffering. It's a difficult distinction to make, but it doesn't read to me like a white hat/black hat situation. 

[bowisneski]

After a second watch, I can say with certainty I loved the episode.  It felt like Episode 29 all over again and had that feeling that the Lodge stuff has been missing this season.  Like Episode 29, the basic story being told is fairly easy to follow, but there's a lot of room to bring your own feelings, thoughts, and interpretations to it.  Contrast this with the earlier Lodge stuff this season which all felt a little too straight forward and normal to me, though that might just be the color grading and being shot digitally.  Or living with Episode 29 for ten years.  It just didn't look or feel "right".

 

The possibility of the "good" vs "evil" mythology doesn't bother me because all the characters seem to have had their own agency and made their own choices and it doesn't seem like being "good" or "evil" stopped them from living in the gray space that all humans live in.  Because of that, I'm not sure, at this point in time, I'd even classify it as "good" vs "evil", it's more, for lack of better phrasing in my head, human vs BOB, an evil of our own making.  Fighting to be good in a not so good world.

 

This didn't even cross my mind on first watch, but on second watch I thought a really interesting thing was the sort of parallel between Mr. C being shot and Cooper being shot at the end of season one/his visit from the Giant in the season two premier.  They are both shot in roughly the same place and have two bullet wounds and they're both visited by Lodge denizens.  While Mr. C has a black BOB orb removed from his being, Coop has a golden orb inserted in to him by the Giant/??????? which could be related to the Laura orb he creates.  Maybe because Laura was murdered?  Not really sure.

[Gailbraithe]

6 hours ago, Nordelnob said:

Do you mind if I ask you why you feel that way? Just curious. I've heard a similar sentiment expressed by others including by the hosts of the Idle Thumbs Twin Peaks Rewatch, and I'm not sure I understand.

I mean, I definitely understand the desire to not see bad things happen to beloved characters. But I also recognize that the show is inherently about that.

 

Well, my comment was more about the speculation than anything else.  I don't think it's very productive, and I feel like it all comes down to how you feel about Twin Peaks.  Personally, I think the "Bad Coop raped Diane/Audrey" theory does a poor job of explaining the facts that have been presented, but I don't really want to get into arguments with people over it.  Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right.  I'd like the show to say, not argue about it endlessly.

[5minutesaway]

This isn't a super relevant note but I thought it was interesting and haven't seen it mentioned. 

 

Girl (1956) picks up a heads-up penny, touches Lincoln's face, and says that it's good luck. 

 

The Woodsman who hypnotizes her with his poem is played by Robert Broski. Robert Broski is a Lincoln impersonator and has primarily been cast as Lincoln in his acting career. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3716858/

[Crunchnoisy]

1 hour ago, brandons said:

 

I know what I'm looking at? This is Twin Peaks, man.

 

You're right on one hand.  On the other hand, even though it's Twin Peaks, there are boundaries that the show itself sets.  I'll explain myself with an example, which i will then refute:

 

Imagine that the whole thing in Black & White Sequence is actually in Bad Coop's mind!

That would account for the presence of Bob and Laura, even as it also dreams of a nuclear explosion and frog-bugs.  Also, that would rebut my criticism about "good versus evil," because now it's not good versus evil, its a Coop-The-Character's perspective - a specific way, with specific touchpoints.

 

For me, that solves everything.  Twin Peaks isn't about Good Vs Evil...

That's a fragment of our ol' buddy Coop remembering the murder case that consumed him (literally).

 

But.

 

The show presents us with superimposed datelines in that dream.

Which are, in the parlance of most film, even Twin Peaks, external to the characters.

Hard Datelines = We are not in Coop's brain.

 

[ but maybe coop inserts datelines on his own inner turmoil, i mean look how he incremented it by 5 in that silly way ]  - ... naaaah.

 

 

[brandons]

6 minutes ago, 5minutesaway said:

This isn't a super relevant note but I thought it was interesting and haven't seen it mentioned. 

 

Girl (1956) picks up a heads-up penny, touches Lincoln's face, and says that it's good luck. 

 

The Woodsman who hypnotizes her with his poem is played by Robert Broski. Robert Broski is a Lincoln impersonator and has primarily been cast as Lincoln in his acting career. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3716858/

 

She was wrong.

[Crunchnoisy]

1 hour ago, Jhinton said:

... I think it's more Goodness V Badness being unleashed into the world, or rather a specific type of evil. There's a direct lineage from the atomic bomb to the evil that men do, which is Bob manifest. 

 

Not to put to fine a point on it, but how is "Goodness Vs Badness" not Good Vs Evil?  And you say "a specific type of evil" I saw no evidence of that.  What this dream depicted was the most general forms of evil possible: indiscriminate mass-destruction of war and the indiscriminate individual destruction of bare-hand murder.  For a clever narrative like Twin Peaks, those are probably the two least interesting and least specific forms of evil.

 

And on the other hand, goodness, what little is depicted, is shown as Gold, and Pretty White Girl.  Again, less interesting, less specific choices could not be imagined.

[marblize]

there are pretty clearly forces at work irl that cause pain and suffering, and those that oppose pain and suffering. i'm not surprised nor disappointed that Lynch/Frost chose the worst, most absurd *human* evil imaginable as a literally explosive lyrical threshold potentially leading to the *human* pain and suffering we've seen throughout twin peaks.

[brandons]

1 hour ago, 5minutesaway said:

This isn't a super relevant note but I thought it was interesting and haven't seen it mentioned. 

 

Girl (1956) picks up a heads-up penny, touches Lincoln's face, and says that it's good luck. 

 

The Woodsman who hypnotizes her with his poem is played by Robert Broski. Robert Broski is a Lincoln impersonator and has primarily been cast as Lincoln in his acting career. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3716858/

 

Wow. So Twin Peaks marks the first role of his not to represent Abraham Lincoln. What a transition.

[pyide]

 

One more minor observation after a second viewing last night. The thing spewing that stuff in the bomb sequence had what looked like small horns on its head, that sort of resembles the playing card design Bad Coop had earlier.

That thing in the glass box was shaking too much to identify those small features, but on the whole looked similar.

[anderbubble]

14 hours ago, fellintooblivion said:

Making this season 18 hours was the dumbest decision the person who made that decision ever made. Everything that happened in this episode could have been condensed into 30 minutes. Every week Lynch continues to prove why the people at ABC were correct in not giving him total creative control. It's now clear that whatever Lynch is making here he is making for himself. This is masturbation pure and simple. 

 

Why are you voicing this dislike in a forum clearly populated by people who enjoy it?

[brandons]

Just now, pyide said:

 

One more minor observation after a second viewing last night. The thing spewing that stuff in the bomb sequence had what looked like small horns on its head, that sort of resembles the playing card design Bad Coop had earlier.

That thing in the glass box was shaking too much to identify those small features, but on the whole looked similar.

 

Which begs the question: is it loose in our world now? And why would Cooper have the figure on a card like that?

[pyide]

4 minutes ago, brandons said:

Which begs the question: is it loose in our world now? And why would Cooper have the figure on a card like that?

 

I don't think it's loose in the world, but perhaps someone has found a means with the glass box in helping it into the world, maybe even wanting to trap it. Still, the glass box could be entirely unrelated to that entity specifically and it snuck its way in or was brought in against its will like Cooper was for a brief moment.

 

He showed the card to Darya before killing her and said something like "have you seen anything like this before? This is what I want" and she seemed spooked by it.

But he's also up front about wanting some specific information from Hasting's secretary that Ray was to acquire?  Which he still didn't get because Ray shot him before giving up the information he had memorized and then fled the scene when the woodsmans showed up. I forget some of the details about all that early stuff and can't imagine how that relates to the card. He only reveals the card to Darya right before he kills her, so it's probably secretive to him in some way. He could even be behind the glass box experiment as some were assuming. Still so many questions and mysteries that may never get revealed. And card to creature stuff could be completely unrelated and grasping at straws.

[Crunchnoisy]

On 6/26/2017 at 2:39 AM, mikemariano said:

I love Dune! I love the Beast of Yucca Flats! Now they're the same thing!

 

 

Come Episode 11, I bet the "Mother" (garmonbozia-barfer) will be revealed to be a Guild Navigator.

 

[Jake]

The podcast episode is live! This episode is a hard one to do justice to in a single episode, so fortunately for everyone we can keep talking about it next week! We're taking advantage of the week gap before Part 9, to do a "catch up, reflections, and further thoughts" episode about the season as a whole, and to continue unpacking what we saw this week.

[Paul Smith]

1 hour ago, brandons said:

Wow. So Twin Peaks marks the first role of his not to represent Abraham Lincoln. What a transition.

 

Can we really say that for sure, I mean has anyone researched Lincoln's poetry

[dium]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:09 PM, Aaron M said:

My favorite thing about reactions to this episode is the split between people seeing it as "Mark Frost mythology bullshit" and "David Lynch art-film bullshit".

 

This turned out to be pretty predictive of this very thread.

[Gailbraithe]

The scene with the married couple who encounter the Woodsman on the road seems like it might be an oblique reference to the Levelland UFO Case.  Obviously not the same case, as the Levelland event occured in 1957 in Texas, but it still felt like it was meant to evoke that event.

[Vegas]

5 hours ago, 5minutesaway said:

This isn't a super relevant note but I thought it was interesting and haven't seen it mentioned. 

 

Girl (1956) picks up a heads-up penny, touches Lincoln's face, and says that it's good luck. 

 

The Woodsman who hypnotizes her with his poem is played by Robert Broski. Robert Broski is a Lincoln impersonator and has primarily been cast as Lincoln in his acting career. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3716858/

 

best single/first post ever

[LillyBaeum]

Very weird thing that I noticed rewatching the episode, probably been pointed out before considering you fucking people notice shit like reversed blinking,

When Ray shoots Cooper, he seems to only shoot once. The second shot is actually the exact same video clip as the first gunshot, just repeated. You can notice this in the fact that on the second gunshot, Ray's jacket jumps backwards in position to where it was before he shot, along with the wonky sounding audio. And the one-and-only shot sends Cooper flying backwards.

There is no second shot.

 

Also, the 'tesla coil' thing they mentioned on the 'Cast seems clearly to me to be a cigarette lighter from the other metaphysical episode and intro of Dougie.

My theory on the woodsman repeating "got a light?" is some sort of desire to get closer to a cigarette lighter, which was in the car of the man driving with his wife. No idea what that 'means' though, besides cigarette lighters and other sources of electricity seeming to be some sort of portal between the lodge-universe and the earth-universe, and related to the woodsmen who make weird zappy arcing electricity noises all the time. I don't fucking know. This show, man. I'm missing/not connecting major parts here.

 

4 hours ago, anderbubble said:

 

Why are you voicing this dislike in a forum clearly populated by people who enjoy it?

 

That's a really silly thing to say. "Why are you saying this thing is bad?? This forum is for people who like this thing!!" is totally unconstructive, sure there's a line to draw to avoid unnecessary trolling, but I don't think we need an echo chamber.

 

It's a pretty common artistic sentiment that it can actually help something in the long run to be constrained by certain things: time, budget, etc... because that can sometimes lead to a more interesting, condensed project with less unnecessary fat. It's not ALWAYS true but it's a reasonable sentiment, I think, to believe that this is the case for Twin Peaks S3. Maybe all this shit could be edited down, but I personally do like the slow, tense pace of the season.

[LillyBaeum]

HOLY FUCK

Not sure what the double post rules are but I figured this stands on its own.

 

I have chills. Maybe someone else has discovered this, but...

This is the music from when the woodsmen pull the soul of BOB out of Evil Coop. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what piece it is, but hopefully someone here knows.

I liked the sound and was curious since it sounded so slow and Lynch seems to have a tendency this season to slow music down a lot, what it sounded like sped up.

In-scene it sounds like droning bass noises, but sped up.. I'll let you listen to the sound and hear it yourself.

 

Christ. CHRIST.

 

BOB harvest song.ogg

[Chris]

46 minutes ago, LillyBaeum said:

HOLY FUCK

Not sure what the double post rules are but I figured this stands on its own.

 

I have chills. Maybe someone else has discovered this, but...

This is the music from when the woodsmen pull the soul of BOB out of Evil Coop. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what piece it is, but hopefully someone here knows.

I liked the sound and was curious since it sounded so slow and Lynch seems to have a tendency this season to slow music down a lot, what it sounded like sped up.

In-scene it sounds like droning bass noises, but sped up.. I'll let you listen to the sound and hear it yourself.

 

Christ. CHRIST.

 

BOB harvest song.ogg

 

Whoa! Thanks for doing that! That's Beethoven's Piano Sonata 14, known as "Moonlight Sonata," one of the most recognizable and commonly-played solo piano pieces in the canon.

[LillyBaeum]

26 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

Whoa! Thanks for doing that! That's Beethoven's Piano Sonata 14, known as "Moonlight Sonata," one of the most recognizable and commonly-played solo piano pieces in the canon.

 

I was pretty convinced it was Moonlight Sonata but thought I was mistaken. Huh! Makes sense considering the moon is featured heavily in that scene.

 

Also, I googled "golden orb soul" as I had heard the soul described as a golden orb (ala what Dougie turns into, and the golden orbs featured heavily in E8) and found this article that discusses dying, souls as golden orbs, and Tibetan tradition.

http://www.dyingconsciously.org/shamans_journey.html

 

Possibly related to Lynch's... lynchian... lynchness this season.