"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

[itsamoose]

In what world is a group with the description "We catalogue games that are locked at 30fps so you can see them at a glance and mention if it is possible to unlock the framerate by other means." comparable to handing out guns? As for lower traffic places are you talking about? He sent the anti-witchhunt announcement to all members of the Steam group, and also tweeted about it. As I asked in the bit you quoted, how much more high profile can he get? This is a case where he was as public with the response as with the initial action.

 

He created a situation where people would be motivated to request, or what happened (as previously with TB), threaten developers to include this feature.  He pointed out all the games that do something he didn't like, sure his intention was to figure out ways around that thing, but he's been down this road before.  He should have known what would happen, because it has happened before.  He gets people fired up about something with a lot of high minded language and then is seemingly surprised when it all goes wrong.  He puts out a video advertising the curation on his youtube page (2 million subscribers), his primary and largest audience, and released the response to what happened on soundcloud (23k followers), twitter (450k followers) and the steam group (63,000 members).  Assuming for a moment that every one of those followers in all cases were made aware of each instance, and assuming zero overlap between soundcloud, twitter, and steam, more than 3x as many people were made aware of the curation page than the response to what happened after.  Those numbers certainly aren't exact, but look at the sizes of the audience he was speaking to in each instance.  This is the equivalent of a news source doing a 20 minute long TV segment on something that later turns out to be false, and printing a retraction in their blog somewhere.

 

The guns comment was meant to be read as TB setting up the environment for something horrible to happen, then refusing to take responsibility when it does.  Or as he more often does, vindicates the principle of what he was doing and ignores the specifics.

[marblize]

They've literally been calling Rami Ismail the anti-Iwata (and threatening to get him fired from Vlambeer) over his keynote where he said he was a dev first and not a gamer

... they want to get him fired from the company he owns and is?

[Problem Machine]

Yeah that sounds like gamergate alright

[Ninety-Three]

He puts out a video advertising the curation on his youtube page (2 million subscribers)

 

Ah, now I feel silly, I hadn't thought to check his Youtube page for it, so I see the point about low profile retractions.

 

Given that some of TB's followers are internet jerks, and that internet discussions of framerate are always garbage, how do you think TB should have done this? Just been very loud about declaring upfront "Hey, don't be internet jerks and yell at developers about this"? If he had said those exact words, I expect there would still be people being jerks about it (although certainly less people), so would he still be responsible in that case?

[Mangela Lansbury]

He should have done this by not doing it. Don't shit on people over something arbitrary like being locked to 30fps. If you have to remark on it, play up games with framerates you like. You can't start a constructive conversation by saying, "This game is 30fps and my opinion is that 30fps is unsatisfactory," so don't say that.

[Reyturner]

At this point, any trace of heresy is enough to justify harassment; not being dedicated to making the "objectively" best game possible is evidence that they are lazy, fake devs corrupting their industry who must be corrected or purged as they could be vulnerable to the influences of the cultural Marxists.

[Ninety-Three]

He should have done this by not doing it. Don't shit on people over something arbitrary like being locked to 30fps. If you have to remark on it, play up games with framerates you like. You can't start a constructive conversation by saying, "This game is 30fps and my opinion is that 30fps is unsatisfactory," so don't say that.

 

But he wasn't shitting on people. The announcement wasn't "These games are 30 FPS and isn't that just terrible", it was "I don't like 30 FPS, if you are one of the many people who don't like 30 FPS, here's a list of games which are 30 FPS so you can avoid them" (it's an attempt to use a Steam Curation group as a tag, because you can't literally tag something 30 FPS in Steam). That's a useful service. You can't play up games with 60 FPS because the majority of Steam games run at 60.

[itsamoose]

I think what frustrates me about the whole situation is that there are good reasons to lock your game's framerate at 30, and not all of them performance related.  Not to mention rendering rate vs. game update rate being two different things in some cases.  For whatever reason TB saw fit to declare bad, or somehow a bug needing to be fixed, what is effectively a game dev tactic for no other reason than it offends his sensibilities.  

[Mangela Lansbury]

But he wasn't shitting on people. The announcement wasn't "These games are 30 FPS and isn't that just terrible", it was "I don't like 30 FPS, if you are one of the many people who don't like 30 FPS, here's a list of games which are 30 FPS so you can avoid them" (it's an attempt to use a Steam Curation group as a tag, because you can't literally tag something 30 FPS in Steam). That's a useful service. You can't play up games with 60 FPS because the majority of Steam games run at 60.

Wait, why can't you tag something 30fps with Steam Tags?

[Ninety-Three]

Wait, why can't you tag something 30fps with Steam Tags?

 

Back when tags were introduced, there was a lot of deliberate misuse (for instance, someone tagged MGR with "Nanomachines son", people saw it and started tagging it on everything up to and including Barbie games), so Valve banned a whole bunch of tags. Apparently, 30 FPS was among them, so now it's lost to us forever.

[Smart Jason]

But he wasn't shitting on people. The announcement wasn't "These games are 30 FPS and isn't that just terrible", it was "I don't like 30 FPS, if you are one of the many people who don't like 30 FPS, here's a list of games which are 30 FPS so you can avoid them" (it's an attempt to use a Steam Curation group as a tag, because you can't literally tag something 30 FPS in Steam). That's a useful service. You can't play up games with 60 FPS because the majority of Steam games run at 60.

 

You're being pretty arbitrary and generous here. In his SoundCloud explanation and all he says with childish certainty that sixty is "objectively" better than thirty and that his position was a moderate one for even considering thirty FPS games worth a glance (and furthermore that he wasn't expressing an opinion, but stating the objective fact of their inferiority).

 

He already has so many other outlets for commenting on games, it was super tone deaf to make a list which actually evoked policing in order to paint every game on it with the broadest brush possible regardless of any relative factor.

[Mangela Lansbury]

So Valve made a conscious decision to not allow the community to mark a game in a certain way because of abuse, so the workaround is to... abuse a different system...?

Man, the minutiae of anything involving TB are just mindnumbingly dumb and dull and way overly complex.

[Ninety-Three]

You're being pretty arbitrary and generous here. In his SoundCloud explanation and all he says with childish certainty that sixty is "objectively" better than thirty and that his position was a moderate one for even considering thirty FPS games worth a glance (and furthermore that he wasn't expressing an opinion, but stating the objective fact of their inferiority).

 

You're being pretty harsh. He doesn't say his position is moderate, just that there are people more extreme than him. He said that 60 FPS is better and things got all "60 FPS PC Master Race" wanky, but the only negativity was stated as personal taste, that he and some others disliked 30 FPS. Is it shitting on 1 megapixel cameras to say that 4 megapixel cameras are better?

 

 

He already has so many other outlets for commenting on games, it was super tone deaf to make a list which actually evoked policing in order to paint every game on it with the broadest brush possible regardless of any relative factor.

 

You're missing the point. The list isn't for commenting on games, it's for marking games which run at 30 FPS, so that people who dislike that can avoid them. It's using a brush exactly as broad as the task calls for.

 

 

So Valve made a conscious decision to not allow the community to mark a game in a certain way because of abuse, so the workaround is to... abuse a different system...?

Man, the minutiae of anything involving TB are just mindnumbingly dumb and dull and way overly complex.

 

Yes, they banned the 30 FPS tag because it was being abused, placed on games that ran at 60. This list is maintained by TB who ensures that games are only added if they actually run at 30, how is that abuse?

[Problem Machine]

You're being pretty harsh. He doesn't say his position is moderate, just that there are people more extreme than him. He said that 60 FPS is better and things got all "60 FPS PC Master Race" wanky, but the only negativity was stated as personal taste, that he and some others disliked 30 FPS. Is it shitting on 1 megapixel cameras to say that 4 megapixel cameras are better?

I'd be pretty comfortable calling anyone who says a game running at 1920x1080 is objectively better than a game running at 640x480 an idiot.

 

Haven't we basically reached consensus at this point that reviewing a work of art as though it were a camera is awful and reductive?

[Ninety-Three]

I'd be pretty comfortable calling anyone who says a game running at 1920x1080 is objectively better than a game running at 640x480 an idiot.

 

 

Well yes, those are different aspect ratios. Would you say that regarding 1280x960 vs 640x480?

[Architecture]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that I find your combative pedantry tiresome and wish you'd stop.

[Problem Machine]

Well yes, those are different aspect ratios. Would you say that regarding 1280x960 vs 640x480?

That's an interesting case because you could actually represent 640x480 graphics at 1280x960. If that's what's being done, then it's silly to believe that one is an improvement on the other since they're visually indistinguishable -- essentially the equivalent of running at 60 frames per second but only updating every other frame. If that's not what's being done, then it's absurd to believe that higher resolution graphics are in any way inherently better, since it's a matter of artistic and aesthetic intent. Either way.

[Halgwet]

You're being pretty harsh. He doesn't say his position is moderate, just that there are people more extreme than him. He said that 60 FPS is better and things got all "60 FPS PC Master Race" wanky, but the only negativity was stated as personal taste, that he and some others disliked 30 FPS. Is it shitting on 1 megapixel cameras to say that 4 megapixel cameras are better?

 

Using cameras is actually a pretty bad example and would probably be better used as an argument against the people saying that 60 fps is inherently better. There are many things that determine the quality of a camera, but megapixels is the only one that people in general are aware of since it is a simple number that can easily be understood. Larger is better, or at least that seems to be the logical conclusion. Camera manufacturers noticed this and started focusing on just the amount of megapixels so that they could have a large number on the box. This was done to the detriment of other features that determine picture quality like lenses and sensors. So you got pictures with crappy colours and a ton of noise, but there sure were a lot of pixels.

[osmosisch]

This is the dumbest derail.

 

If TB cares so much about unlocked FPS the curation list should index those games. A curation list purely for negativity sucks, and especially with his known shithead followers he should be a lot more careful than he is.

[Deadpan]

... they want to get him fired from the company he owns and is?

 

Weirdly, yes.

 

That's a useful service.

 

I don't see much use in lumping together any and all games with framerate caps, given that not all of them are created equal, nor are all of them equally disposed to twitch gameplay. Not all of these games are shoddy console ports, and for some of these I struggle to see any convincing argument for how they would be improved with a higher framerate. The current list of the group includes, for instance, the Jackbox Party Pack, a game where you'll be more focused on your smartphone screen or your friends anyway, and Banner Saga: Factions (the main game is not/no longer on there), a hand-animated game that just so happens to have been drawn at 24 frames. Or Gemcraft, a tower defense game with Flash roots, VVVVVV, and Gothic, a PC RPG from 2001.

 

If you want to take a customer service approach to this issue, nuance is absolutely required. Bringing something like this up in the context of a review may be helpful, but just listing games with framerate caps without context is pointless, just something for silly people to get upset about, people who likely have no idea how or why games are made with such specific limitations sometimes. Like that indie games steam curation group that promised it would have "none of that Gamemaker crap" and immediately recommended Hotline Miami, Gunpoint and Spelunky.

[Vainamoinen]

TB's reaction in full:
 

I thoroughly denounce the OP. As the person who runs this group and someone who just recommended Guild of Dungoneering via the Cynical Brit curator, this witch-hunting is absolutely ridiculous. Devs have the right and ability to remove which curators they see fit from their storepage. If you follow the curator, it won't matter anyway, because it will show up regardless of the devs decision.

This group is a purely objective list and nothing more. It passes no judgments and expresses no opinions. It is absolutely not a tool for you to use to try to organize boycotts or threaten developers. If you don't want to buy a game because its locked at 30fps that's absolutely your right as a consumer and the group is there to help you make those decisions. It is absolutely not there for you to use as a weapon against developers and this behavior is completely unacceptable.

The issue has CLEARLY been resolved. I've quite frankly had it with the internets complete incapacity to forgive and forget. Oh, you did one thing that someone else thought was ♥♥♥♥♥♥? I HATE YOU FOREVER. No, absolutely not. We can't live like that, thats insane.

 
Total clearly speaks out against this, commendable certainly, but as others have noticed, he's trying to keep a movement in check that he himself created. He should rather give up the Curator channel.
Heck, Curator should be abandonned as a massive conflation of press and publisher anyway.
 
As usual, John Bain remains oblivious of factually having organized the protest of largely imbecile consumers, dare I say, hyper consumers. So this really is all TB101 here.

 

Yes, they banned the 30 FPS tag because it was being abused, placed on games that ran at 60. This list is maintained by TB who ensures that games are only added if they actually run at 30, how is that abuse?

 

These channels are implemented by Steam to garner SUPPORT for certain games, not as a shitlist for some with a rather arbitrary trait that may ruin fun in some high speed 3D applications, but certainly not in 2D turn based card games like Guild of Dungeneering. In other words, the abuse happens right there.

[Reyturner]

Weirdly, yes.

Let's take a second to imagine the mentality required to tweet at a game developer, who they feel is insufficiently respectful to the hallowed Consumer, that said dev should be careful since their doctor might be a gator. Imagine the world they live in.

[itsamoose]

"This group is a purely objective list and nothing more. It passes no judgments and expresses no opinions."

Aside from the opinion that games locked at 30 FPS should be marked and are in need of policing. Once again he vindicates the principle and ignores the action. Not to belabor the point here, but I just don't see how a guy who spends his days evaluating games based on their implementation doesn't apply the same rubric to his own actions.

[Vasari]

"This group is a purely objective list and nothing more. It passes no judgments and expresses no opinions."

 

What it says now:

 

 

What it originally said:

 

 

This group expresses no opinions! Except that it was originally made to "protect you from terrible framerates". I'm sure now that the description has changed that all the members of the group will be just as objective?

[BusbyBerkeley]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that I find your combative pedantry tiresome and wish you'd stop.

 

Co-signed.