Idle Workouts

[Erkki]

Went running the same route again, just before bedtime. This time 7min run + 2min walk. Was easier now already, feet didn't hurt much at all during the run. Next time (tomorrow) I'll try 8+2, then 9+2 and so on. One thing I noticed about running with music that may be dangerous: just one time I raised my tempo way high due to the right music coming up, kept it up for half a minute and then had to struggle for breath for the next 5 minutes. Thankfully it was almost at the end so didn't affect the entire run.

[MrHoatzin]

I can't abide exercise with super-specialized machines in sweaty stalls, staring at TVs, or my own lumbering reflection. It embodies all that bugs me about how modern western human sees the world—ie, to be a healthy animal you have to spend hours a week maxing your stats on some bullshit contraption engineered by experts to fix your woes—and god forbid you do anything without consuming media while you're at it. The Crossfit model is somewhat more appealing to me in this light—a Montessori gym!—but it fixes what's wrong about gyms in an extreme way, over-correcting in another bullshit direction. Plus it's more expensive than reasonable for a drill sergeant and some kettle bells in a dilapidated strip mall...

Soooooo I bought a cheapo mountain bike at a Frankenbike, been cleaning it up (still need to get it to where the derailers don't arbitrarily throw the chain in the general direction of my shifting) and biking about 20 miles a day, Texas summer permitting. Haven't had a bike since I left my last one in Belgrade, in the '90s, when I left for the States. I feel amazing. Why did I ever stop biking? It is still a machine that I'm interacting with to get my enorphin fix, but at least I go on weird high-speed adventures through natureful chunks of San Antonio—and I feel less likely to destroy my knees and ankles than I would with just running (what with my not inconsiderable heft). Looking forward to dragging this bike (or riding it) to a state park for a proper hit of nature cycling.

[Nachimir]

That's exactly how I felt after a ten year gap with no bike.

 

I also feel the same about gyms (like, using your body is a thing you have to pay to do in a special place?), but I've been spoiled with really cheap, good instructor led physical training outside that context.

[Griddlelol]

I just got around to fixing my bike too! I use it for my commute but the back wheel got all buckled and I put it on my "to do list." Which meant it wouldn't get done for months.

The commute on a bike can be stressful - people don't notice you/don't care, but I find it better at waking me up in the morning than coffee.

On gyms: I love lifting weights, which is weird. I think it's partly because the feedback you get from doing it happens so quickly, also you can do so many different things it's impossible to get bored. Plus it has that high score chasing element that so many great games use to make you keep playing.

People tend to judge me when I say I do weights, assume I'm tying to get ripped to look good in a club or something (I have a partner, and it hate clubbing). Or if they don't know me, they assume I'm dumb just because I'm pretty big. I find that whole thing really irritating, and the culture of weights at many gyms is horrible too. I'm lucky I found a good place that's basically devoid of people except those on treadmills; which I'll never understand.

While I'd rather do it at home, I don't have the cash for all the equipment I'd need. And having someone there to spot you is invaluable. So basically, I like gyms because they have e stuff I need, and can't get at home until I have a big enough place and enough money. Plus something can be said for getting out the house and into a different frame of mind.

[Nachimir]

That makes a lot of sense. I don't often do weights, I probably can't afford a personal trainer, and I think it's the treadmill thing about gyms that gets me the most.

[Griddlelol]

I certainly can't afford a personal trainer. I'm not sure if I'd want one, but if someone offered me their services to try for a month, it'd probably be an interesting experience. I personally like just to block everyone and everything out.

 

Also I guess it depends on what body type you have. I find getting bigger and stronger really easy. I find losing any weight really difficult. So I have to do days of running and fasting to get the same effect on me as lifting weights 3 times a week has.

 

I had an interesting talk by an eminent obesity professor from Cambridge who came to visit my lab. The take home message he had was while your size is dictated by the environment you live in, if you ranked everyone from fattest to thinnest within that environment, they'd remain the same no matter what. So essentially how fat you are compared to everyone you know is entirely dependent on genetics. However how fat you are compared to someone who live in China is dependent on environment. He went into a lot of biochemical detail, but I thought that message was very interesting. 

[Twig]

First I had a period of a week and a half of not running and eating like shit because I was out of town. Then I came back and ran for a week. Then I went out of town over the weekend two weekends ago and I dunno slept awkwardly on a bad bed? My lower back began hurting excessively and I was unable to do anything strenuous (like BENDING OVER) for fear of LITERALLY DYING. The pain's finally died down enough that I feel comfortable running, but it still hurts some. Oddly, it hurts considerably less while I'm running than it does while walking. Different muscles, different rotations of joints, I suppose. I know I should go see a doctor about this because it's lasted a long time. It is WAY less bad than it was, but the last thing I want out of my life is to be a 27 year old old man with permanent back pains preventing me from doing things I want to do, like, I dunno, WALKING. The pain has also weirdly spread to my left leg on the outside, from ass to knee in a straight line?

 

I don't know what's going on with me.

Anyway, the takeaway is just before I started running and watching what I ate, I was about 293 pounds. A few weeks ago before I went out of town, I was about 271 pounds. Now I'm about 291 pounds. Sad. ):

 

...

 

I'd love to lift weights, but that costs money I don't have. I actually like lifting weights because it's a nice solid thing that I can work towards improving, either in reps or weight. It's not very exciting, but it appeals to the "watch numbers grow!" part of my brain.

[MrHoatzin]

I don't hold dumbbells, barbells and the like in same contempt I reserve for stationary machines with levers, pulley systems and rotating resistance. I also kinda dig rowing machines (I have one in my dining room, facing out at the jungle beyond my front porch; it's a pretty zen place to row). And no doubt people with experience and understanding of exercise are invaluable partners when doing it. There just has to be a more holistic way to exercise than the gym machine model (I wish holistic wasn't such a compromised word). It's just as dreary as sitting in a cubicle, or alone in traffic, or staring at always churning internet feeds, a pig in a cage on antibiotics—them sort of feels. Biking in comparison feels like fucking freedom. The buzz of the chain, the roll of pebbles, the whiff of semi-crispy-still-sorta-lush grasses and flowers, critters and joggers ducking out of your way—with only a parabolic trajectory between your face and the pavement—maaaan!

[Nachimir]

Biking in comparison feels like fucking freedom. The buzz of the chain, the roll of pebbles, the whiff of semi-crispy-still-sorta-lush grasses and flowers, critters and joggers ducking out of your way—with only a parabolic trajectory between your face and the pavement—maaaan!

 

Yes! I spend a lot of time climbing hills or hurtling down them on the mountain bike, but even cycle commuting feels badass and free. Being able to go to a place quickly, or even between cities, entirely under my own power feels like total freedom.

 

I feel the same about running, doing it outdoors is excellent; I run in winter, snow, rain, etc.

[Griddlelol]

Got to agree with the badass feeling of cycling. It's faster than cars or public transport within my city, and nipping between cars, going on roads, pavements, grass all to get the shortest, fastest route possible feels fantastic. 

I can't just cycle for cycling's sake though. I need a destination.

[Nachimir]

It really surprised me in Nottingham when I first got back on a bike and found it was much quicker than getting the bus.

 

(Incidentally, the Curry Mile in Manchester is more intensely dangerous than anything I rode in London, including Elephant and Castle).

[MrHoatzin]

San Antonio drivers are dicks towards bikers prolly because they don't know bikes are allowed on regular roads, so it is not impossible to get driven off the road by belligerent pickup truck... that said, year after year referendums in town have expressed desire for more bike-friendliness and more green space investment, and the government has indeed built a lot of explicit bike lanes. Nowhere near as bike-friendly as Austin, but a holy fantasy land compared to what bikers in Houston or Dallas have to deal with.

[Erkki]

All this bike talk is making me think why I haven't used mine for two months... I might replace one running or yoga exercise with biking. I love biking because 1) outdoors 2) the badassness feeling (although I think running makes me feel even more badass, maybe that's just initially) 3) variable pulse (can go anywhere between 100BPM or 180BPM, whereas with running I'm stuck with 160-170BPM) 4) With a lowish pulse I can do it for 2-3 hours.

[Griddlelol]

Curry Mile in Manchester

 

Way too dangerous. I've done it once and now I avoid it like the plague. Lucky I don't really have a reason to go that way.

 

I'm pretty sure motorists in every country are dicks towards cyclists. There was a little scandal in the UK where a woman knocked a cyclist off their bike and tweeted boasting about it. 

She went on national TV crying and apologising. It was great. 

[Nachimir]

Yes, I've ridden it once and while I feel okay about it, it was surreal; a new potentially lethal hazard every 5 - 10 seconds or so. Having a tiny cycle lane snake between the road on one side, and bus stops/parking spaces on the other is ludicrous. In about five minutes, I almost got hit by a bus, several car doors, cars pulling in, cars pulling out, a couple of cars parked in the bike lane, and almost ran into some errant pedestrians. I'm good at spotting situations in advance, and that road still put me in uncomfortable and dangerous ones.

 

Does anyone use Strava for their running or cycling? I've been using it a bit, but am wary of the compulsion in stat chasing (I was pleased to see they've built something in around reporting segments as dangerous, that's probably a good way of discouraging players from behaving like dicks). I was reminded by the discussion of weights having numbers above; it's nice knowing your times on a given climb or descent, and getting a broader sense of whether you're improving or not. Likewise Nike+ used to be a big help when I was only running.

[Badfinger]

Twig: Every once in a while I'll have lower back pain. My sister's an osteopathic doctor and her One Simple Trick was just to stretch really often. Stretch right when you wake up AND before you go to bed, stretch after exercises. I was keeping it really simple- bending over as far as I could and hanging down until my back loosened up, touching my toes, and side bends. It helped immensely.

 

 

I'm considering trying a new exercise set (the Stronglifts 5x5), but as crazy as it sounds my gym doesn't have a power rack. I'm trying to find substitute exercises, and I'm also debating talking to the gym owner about adding one. I don't know if that's a faux pas or anything. Because I'm in between two different workouts, it's sort of sapped my desire to do the old one. Which is probably quite weird.

[prettyunsmart]

It seems like some people in this thread know a fair amount about lifting, so I thought I'd throw a question out to everyone. I've tried just googling information about lifting, but there are so many different options and they're all geared toward people way more serious about this than I am, so I thought I'd ask other Thumbs for assistance.

 

I've been doing cardio pretty consistently about 5 days a week for the last 6 months or so, but recently I've been becoming more convinced that I should work in some strength training for more effective weight loss/my general well-being. The last couple of weeks, I've been running 3 days a week and doing a relatively random full-body circuit thing at my university's gym. I feel like I'm getting a decent enough workout, but I was wondering if anyone know some good programs to help me get a bit more structure. Ideally, I'm looking for something 2-3 days a week with an emphasis on burning fat more than body building. Thanks in advance!

[feelthedarkness]

I always stick with the old fashioned split sets.

 

Day 1: Chest/Triceps

Day 2: Cardio

Day 3: Back/Biceps

Day 4: Legs/Shoulders

Day 5: Cardio

 

The lifting days are complimentary muscle groups where working one doesn't strain the other. I do 3 super sets, and take a break, so X reps of bench, immediately followed by X sets of tricep extension, then a 2 minute break, repeat. I do at least 3 of those super sets per day, and I would recommend always a little focus on core stuff like Deadlifts and Squats.

 

A great resource for individual exercises is http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html

[Griddlelol]

I don’t know how much the rest of you know about lifting (I’m an expert)...

 

Jokes aside, I work in endocrinology and I've been into weights for years. In answer to your question it's pretty simple:

 

If you want to gain muscle, lift heavy, eat loads.

If you want to lose fat, lift heavy, eat less. 

 

You won't get bigger if you don't eat enough calories, and you won't get smaller if you eat too many. There are some small intricacies to it, like hormonal spikes - exercise causes cortisol (the hormone I work on) spikes which leads to fat burning and muscle wasting - although the latter is unlikely if you don't live in the third world, whilst eating a lot promotes insulin and growth hormone both of which lead to muscle increase and fat increase. 

Ignore the whole "more reps = fat loss" idea, it's based on pseudoscience from the 1980s. You want to lift pretty heavy, aim for maybe 10 reps +/- 2 reps but where you really struggle on the last one. Do this while eating low calories and you'll lose weight. Look up a basal metabolic rate calculator and it'll show you what your basal calorie intake should be. If you don't exercise much eat that number, if you exercise a lot, eat slightly more.

 

On the types of exercise feelthedarkness has a intermediate/advanced split, but for a beginner I'd recommend doing a full body work out each time you go. I still use my full body variants every few months because it has added benefits of testosterone induction with big lifts and looks something like this:

 

Fullbody Variant 1

Squat

Pull up

Overhead press

Bent over row (or one armed row)

 

Fullbody Variant 2

Deadlift

Bench press superset into press ups 

Triceps push down

biceps curl

 

In the end the exercises you do don't matter too much, it's really the amount of calories you eat. Doing any exercise will build muscle (except super long distance running) but if you eat less you'll lose fat pretty fast.

 

It also might be worth looking into High intensity interval training (HIIT). I can't stand cardio, but I love doing HIIT stuff.

[Erkki]

I developed some pains in lower back, shoulders and hips, probably from running or not stretching after runs. So I skipped running last weekend, and went to get the custom insoles made today. I planned to run on Fri or Sat, but couldn't wait and went today. I took some new advice and ran on a softer track that is right besides the asphalt road and tried to keep a lower pulse, which was possible to my surprise. The run was also 10 minutes slower than last time for the same 6km, but it beats struggling for breath. I didn't keep track of how much walking pauses I did between running, as I only did them to keep my heart rate within a range or when my knees started hurting.

 

Yeah, for some reason this slower running seemed to have a much bigger effect on my knees than a faster run. Maybe due to more steps being made? Planning to get a sports massage in a couple of days, maybe it'll help with the pains.

[Griddlelol]

I used to get lower back pains during runs too. For me it was the constant standing. I was at school when that happened so I spent a lot of time sitting. Now my job demands standing all the time and my back got used to that position which stopped the running pain. However it might be something more serious so don't ignore it!

On knees, have you tried looking up running techniques? I did some reading when I started long distance running. The technique is different from short distance and I found trying to learn this new way of running helped with my ankle pain. I don't long distance run any more but I used to a lot when I was younger.

How does the heart rate thing work for you? I bought one years ago but I never really understood the benefit of keeping my heart rate low. I thought the whole point of cardio was to strengthen your heart (hence the name).

[Nachimir]

Different heart rate zones are good for different types of exercise. I don't recall offhand how to calculate them, and they vary a bit for everyone, but say over adulthood the theoretical max heart rate for healthy adult man is 180 - 200, then going right up to the top of that range when exercising won't be effort you can maintain for very long at all. It also burns energy fast, so only sugars are really useful for it, and your muscles will run out of them faster than they can be replaced. Doing this will build strength but you're unlikely to lose weight (stressful aerobic exercise is a good combination with lifting weights if you want to gain, particularly if you hammer your quads).

 

Lower zones (130 - 160 BPM IIRC) are good for fat burning because they're less stressful and your body can convert fat at a suitable rate. A few hours on a bike or at a slow jog with this heart rate is good for losing weight. It takes a lot of discipline to keep your heart this low for long periods, particularly when on climbs.

 

The more you exercise, the lower your resting heart rate will be. At my healthiest I got mine into a BPM of the low to mid-60s, and athletes sometimes have <50 BPM resting heart rates. 

[Griddlelol]

I like how you're thinking but it's not entirely true. The reality is that sprinting (and therefore higher heart rates) doesn't mean you only burn sugar, nor is the reverse true. Both versions of training are highly effective for weight loss.

 

A number of studies have shown that interval training - i.e. sprinting and higher heart rate - can cause changes in overall fat metabolism vs sugar metabolism after short periods of training (http://jap.physiology.org/content/102/4/1439). So in this study, 2 weeks of continual interval training resulted in the subjects having increased fat oxidation during the high heart rate exercise. The downside of this experiment is that they didn't directly compare it to steady state, however these women in the study were active so it's likely they would already be partaking in such activities.

 

Burning off sugar reserves isn't a bad thing either. That sugar must be replaced, it is always replaced and some of the replacement comes from fat, but also diet. Replacing the sugar reserves from your diet means that sugar is not being metabolised into fat.

There's also the post-exercise oxygen consumption to think about. The closer you train to your maximal ability, the larger the increase in metabolism is once you finish. While jogging for 30 minutes may burn more calories in the time spent training than sprinting for 6 minutes, the sprinting increases your metabolism much more, so you'll have a higher resting metabolism for I believe around 24 hours, which in turn is superior to the jogging. 

Interval training also has been shown to have similar effects on lung capacity and heart health as steady state training.

 

My rant is not to say "Interval is better than steady state" because that's false. There hasn't (and I seriously doubt ever will be) empirical data to say which one is more efficient. I expect it entirely depends on the person. I find sprints are better, but that's because I enjoy them and I'm more likely to go out and do 15 minutes of sprinting as opposed to 45 minutes of jogging. I just wanted to point out that one type of exercise is not superior to the other.

 

Also I have a bias - humans evolved as long distance running animals. We'd hunt by grouping up and chasing one animal until exhaustion. Most hunters hunt by rapid attacks, and thus most prey evolved to get away from rapid attacks, however humans could not possibly catch up with an antelope, but they could run it down until it trips or they got close enough to hurl a spear. 

It seems unlikely to me that long distance running burns as many calories as people make out. It doesn't make sense that a group of people would go hunting and expend ~500 calories each to kill an animal that they then have to share with those back at the settlement. Whereas sprinting and such things were done in times of fear and danger, where energy expenditure isn't taken into consideration by evolution. I'm probably thinking about it too much though!

[Nachimir]

That's all good to know, thanks. Despite wildly varying discipline when it comes to workouts, my body seems to hover around skinny with a little fat around the middle and lot of muscle in the legs. At times I've become leaner and/or stronger, but never managed to pin that to a specific behaviour or routine that definitely works.

[Erkki]

I went to get a sports massage a couple of times. It may have helped with some pains I was having in the back, or the pain just may have disappeared by itself, not sure. Anyway, it felt pretty good, but first time hurt like hell. Second time was not bad any more and I'll get another one tomorrow.

 

Also, I've increased the amount of exercise I do (>10 hours a week), and since I started running with a lower pulse I've now managed to run 6K without a walking break a couple of times, although really slowly. Will probably attempt 8-10K lap soon. I'm noticing that if I run 3 times a week I get some painish feelings in the knees though.