Brannigan

DOTA 2

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Just got my beta invite, was wondering if anyone else is in it. Having only played LoL a bunch, I'm confident I'll have people screaming at me constantly in this.

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i play five games a day and lose all of them )):

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I just got an invite as well. I've played LOL a little bit. Signed up for the beta before work got nuts. I'll probably try and play a bit this weekend though. And get killed frequently.

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I'd be happy to teach people the basics of DotA vs LoL or just DotA in general, if we want to get a Thumbs party going sometime. My Steam info is in the thread somewhere. Despite my acidic nature on here sometimes, I'm fairly Zen about DotA-likes, so I won't be yelling at you for sucking. :yep:

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If you guys get a game going, let me know, I'd be up for it.

I liked Dota and I like the look/characters of this, but I don't think I'm in it for the pub games as it seems to be pretty miss and miss for me.

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Do we want to try and set up an actual time for this? I'm available pretty much whenever, but that's obviously not the case for the rest of you.

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Also just got a beta invite. I have basically no experience with this type of game (played a couple of bot matches in LoL before becoming distracted by something else). My team won on my first game, in spite of me. I was expecting a lot of raging at my inexperience, but all I got was a "oh, he must be new."

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Also just got a beta invite. I have basically no experience with this type of game (played a couple of bot matches in LoL before becoming distracted by something else). My team won on my first game, in spite of me. I was expecting a lot of raging at my inexperience, but all I got was a "oh, he must be new."

I might finally dip my toe a bit later. A few nights of LOL and I didn't feel a lot of grief. Admittedly, I was mostly ignoring people outside of broad strategy. I played more than one game where the other two guys just took off doing their own thing.

I understand that DOTA 2 is (at least partly) and attempt to keep this kind of game reasonably approachable for people who won't be playing it for extended periods? Hopefully that would mean the input of people like myself (who, more than ever, can probably not spend more than an hour or two at a time on any one game and can rarely play the same game three days in a row) would actually be useful.

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I might finally dip my toe a bit later. A few nights of LOL and I didn't feel a lot of grief. Admittedly, I was mostly ignoring people outside of broad strategy. I played more than one game where the other two guys just took off doing their own thing.

I understand that DOTA 2 is (at least partly) and attempt to keep this kind of game reasonably approachable for people who won't be playing it for extended periods? Hopefully that would mean the input of people like myself (who, more than ever, can probably not spend more than an hour or two at a time on any one game and can rarely play the same game three days in a row) would actually be useful.

I find it a lot more complex than LoL, however my experience with LoL was a good primer for this game.

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I find it a lot more complex than LoL, however my experience with LoL was a good primer for this game.

Ok, that's encouraging... Not sure where I got the impression that DOTA 2 would be accessible, maybe I'm just getting it mixed up with LOL, or Blizzard DOTA? I have zero experience of the original DOTA.

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This space will hold a primer on LoL vs DotA (2) when I awake in some hours.

Suffice to say, they share similarities, but holding to anything beyond last hitting that you learned in LoL will get you dead.

Alright, there's a few things that could conceivably cost you a few kills/get you killed a few times if you've played LoL.

LoL V DotA 2

Gold: Lost on death. Seriously, dying in this is a thousand times worse than LoL. You lose a portion of your gold and the enemy gains a large proportion of gold depending on your gold and your killstreak.

Shopping: You can buy things away from base and they will enter your "stash" where they can be picked up by you or sent to you via courier. Don't lose an item you've farmed because you forgot to buy it.

Towers: Do less damage in DotA 2, standing under a tower any time after ten minutes into the game will not guarantee the death of your attacker. Fortifying your teams buildings does not give towers a RoF boost.

Creeps: Do more damage in DotA 2. They will kill you if you get trapped in them. Which brings up a side point; Unit collision allows for surrounds in a manner similar to more standard RTS. Don't trap yourself in creeps during a fight.

Jungle: Not necessary to have a jungling character for victory. Only a few people can jungle well (Chen, Enchantress, Enigma, Lifestealer, Axe being the primary ones) and must follow incredible specific paths and timings in order to succeed.

Creep stacking: Creeps spawn on the :30 second mark the first time (going positive after the game starts proper) and then the minute mark every other time. As a support in top lane as Dire, or bottom lane as Radiant, you should be "creep stacking" This involves pulling a full creep spawn from their camp, into the lane, so that the new creeps spawn in that camp. You then have double the creeps in that camp, but also double the XP and gold.

Comprehensive guide for both of the previous topics: http://www.playdota.com/learn/jungle

Mana/Spell spamming: You can't. Simple as that. Most heroes have enough mana for a couple spells in the early game, if that. Tiny, one of the heroes with incredible burst potential through comboing two of his spells, can't even cast that combo at level 2. Conserve mana, do not kill creeps with spells until much later.

Counter-picking: If I wrote up a list of X hero counters Y hero I would need to use four or five posts, and not all the heroes are even in. Suffice to say, once you learn what everyone does, counter-picking is a thousand times more important in DotA 2. You'll frequently see people wait until the pick clock winds down in order to out-pick your last second picks. Do not allow this, you will lose.

Intelligence heroes: In LoL, INT heroes/"mages" can scale in damage because of ability power. There is no such analogue here, the damage an INT spell does at level 4 is the damage it will always do, barring Aghanim's Scepter. In this way, INTs are often placed in supportive roles that benefit the entire team. Warding, buying dust (Of Appearance) to reveal invis heroes, and so forth.

Aghanim's Scepter: Don't quote me on the exact number, but about 1/3rd of the heroes in DotA can buy an item called Aghanim's Scepter. It costs 4200 gold, gives +10 to all three stats, and does something very important. You see the picture of Tiny carrying a tree I posted up there? That's his Aghanim's bonus. He permanently uproots a tree and carries it around, giving him cleave, an attack range boost, and slowing his attack speed. It's great, but unfortunately, if you ever buy an Aghanim's on Tiny, you're an idiot. There are heroes that can get Aghanim's that never should, and some that always should. Feel free to ask if you're not sure.

Warding: Do it if you're the support. Always have wards up. http://www.playdota.com/learn/ward

Runes: Spawn at 0:00 and every two minutes there-after. Appear in the river, essentially next to where Baron and Dragon would be if this was the LoL map. Runes include:

Haste, A red crystal - Obvious and quite good for ganking, depending on the character.

Double Damage, A sharp-topped blue crystal enveloped in lightning - Again, obvious. What might not be entirely obvious is that it also gives you abilities double damage. Tiny and others become a murdering machine with this, often guaranteeing first blood and even a double kill.

Regeneration, Green crystal with swirly vines around it - Gives enormous mana and HP regen until you are topped off. If you're completely healthy, only grab it if there's a chance any enemy will.

Invisibility, A smokey semi-transparent purple crystal: Does what it says on the tin. Another incredible gank enabler.

Illusion, A yellow crystal split into three parts: Give you two copies of yourself with the same mana and health as you had when you picked it up. Copies appear blue tinged to you and teammates, but normal to enemies. Not particularly useful in most situations, but quite helpful for leaving around the map during say, a Roshan attempt.

The person in mid should endeavour to have "rune control" at all times in the laning phase.

Consumables: Can be used on other people, and transferred to others by dragging and dropping the consumable from your inventory onto their model. Very rarely do you not have at least one stack (3) of tangos when leaving base for the first time.

Courier: There's a little button down on the bottom right-hand side of the UI for the courier. Use it frequently. Make sure it's not the bottom button you press, but the middle one. The bottom one is fortify, do not waste that for the love of god. Support always buys the courier. Don't forget to upgrade the courier to a flying one.

Roshan: Roshan is the Baron Nashor of DotA. Except he stuns everyone around him every couple of seconds, and doesn't give a shitty buff. What he does do is drops an item called the Aegis. If you're carrying the Aegis when you die, you are revived after a couple seconds at full health and mana. This is often a deciding factor, and while Roshan isn't always done in every game, if you give the Aegis to a carry, say hello to a decent lead. If not a pure win. On the third time you kill Roshan and every time after, he drops Cheese, which when used instantly restores 2,500 Hp and Mana.

I think that's the basics.

Edited by Orvidos

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Ok, that's encouraging... Not sure where I got the impression that DOTA 2 would be accessible, maybe I'm just getting it mixed up with LOL, or Blizzard DOTA? I have zero experience of the original DOTA.

Well Valve is intending to have a "learn" section and because it's Valve it'll probably be pretty fleshed out. I think they intend to have a lot of infrastructure around the game that makes it easier to get into, maybe including player incentives for teaching. However, the game itself will probably be the least accessible of the games you mentioned since it's a straight rip of the (pretty esoteric) original mod.

I suspect Blizzard DOTA will be the easiest to pick up and play from a mechanical perspective, but I don't know how much it will be supported since it's been unclear whether it's even going to be an actual "product" of Blizzard.

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However, the game itself will probably be the least accessible of the games you mentioned since it's a straight rip of the (pretty esoteric) original mod.

Just wanted to nod my head to this as I played the original mod quite a lot back in it's time.

I'm not a gamer that remembers strategy, "IP" names or anything like that, so it took a bit to remember what character did what in DOTA, but DOTA 2 is REALLY similar to the original compared to HoN or LoL to the point where you wonder why they bothered beyond the obvious commercial reasons.

In original DoTa I was partial to the Necromancer or Lich (can't remember which) that would summon skeletons so was a pretty passive playstyle and it seems like any remake of Dota never includes that character so I'm not quite sure what to make of them.

Also, I find the community a bit split, it's not HoN, thank god, but it's not quite LoL either and I have been verbal discouraging any dickishness to promote more friendly, understanding players.

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I also just got in yesterday and have been trying my hand at a few AI games. I feel like I have the basic idea and flow of the game but item management and fighting other heroes is impossible for me to feel confident about. If the Thumbs want to do some games count me in, but don't expect a lot of skill.

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In original DoTa I was partial to the Necromancer or Lich (can't remember which) that would summon skeletons so was a pretty passive playstyle and it seems like any remake of Dota never includes that character so I'm not quite sure what to make of them.

It's not Lich, as he's already in the game, and also he's a pure support hero (and probably one of the easiest in the game).

Dota 2 doesn't yet have all heroes from the original Dota, but it will, eventually. There is no skeleton-summoning hero in Dota 2, yet. I never played the original (except once with my friend a long, long time ago), so I don't know any of the heroes.

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Updated my earlier post.

Should also mention that you have the potential to lose most of your farm if you're killed and haven't been to the shop recently.

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Should also mention that you have the potential to lose most of your farm if you're killed and haven't been to the shop recently.

Yeah, added a couple things.

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