Idle Forums Game Club - Killer 7 edition

[Sno]

I wish i had a clever name for this, but i don't, so the Idle Forums Game Club it is.

Anyways, Miffy suggested doing something like this, and i know i'd be interested in it, and a lot of you guys were saying you're sitting on unfinished/unplayed copies of Killer 7. I've actually finished the game but would actually really enjoy having a reason to go through it again, though i'm apprehensive about tarnishing my very positive memories of the game, having not played it since it came out.

If you're reading this and are unfamiliar with the game -

. It is an insane, dream-like mess, and is almost totally unconventional. There's not really any easy touchstones for explaining how the game works. It's a first-person shooter, but it's not an FPS. It's on rails, but you control where you're going. The design is all about contradictions. Probably the best way to describe the overall feel for the sum of the parts is that it creates something not unlike a survival horror game, which is understandable given the design pedigree.

It was Goichi Suda's first game released in the US, and he's been quoted as calling it his proudest achievement. (It was also Suda's first collaboration with Shinji Mikami.)

Even so, it's a game that can be really unevenly difficult and extremely obtuse, while the nigh incomprehensible story certainly isn't going to do it for everybody.

It's bound to be a divisive experience.

Two version of the game exist - The game was first released as a two disc game originally on the GameCube, which is the version i played and will be playing again. (Using my Wii's backwards compatibility, which is hardware-based compatibility and should be fine.) The PS2 version came later and i believe i remember hearing that it has some framerate problems, understandable given that the game was originally designed for the more powerful GameCube. (I don't know if the PS2 version is backwards compatible with any of the PS3's several hardware variants, if that's how you intend on going about it, you might want to read into that first.)

So should we do this? How should we do this?

I've checked up on the details, and the game is divided up into a lot of pretty clearly defined chunks, seven "targets" where some are further divided into multiple parts. I remember the game being very episodic, there should be a lot of good stopping and starting points.

If we all did one part per week, that seems like it would probably be a good way to go about it. No skipping ahead, and no discussion of or spoilers regarding things beyond the current stage.

So are people interested in doing this?

Edit: It has begun!

If you are participating or wish to participate, read up on the schedule and rules.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Sno

[JonCole]

I don't actually own the game, but if enough people decide to participate I'll try to track one down.

[a purple future]

IN. what's the due date for the first section?

edit: apparently this is the last game i ever played on my gamecube before i packed it away 3 years or so ago, since it's where i found Disc 1 just now while digging through my boxes

[Squid Division]

I might be up for it. 00 is pretty short isn't it? So maybe 00 and 01 for the first one?

[Sno]

IN. what's the due date for the first section?

I don't know, lets see how many people want to get on board before deciding on any deadlines.

I might be up for it. 00 is pretty short isn't it? So maybe 00 and 01 for the first one?

I don't remember, but if it is, sure. We should do that then.

Edit: It sounds like Target 00 is a fairly lengthy and involved level, so we should be good just playing that through to completion for the first week, whenever it's decided that should take place.

Also - Further random trivia, just because i'm feeling rambly, and maybe it's interesting to have some of the context around Killer 7, if it's not already common knowledge.

Killer 7 was one in a group of five exclusives Capcom had promised for the GameCube, along with Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe, Product Number 03, and Dead Phoenix.

Resident Evil 4 was a revelatory success, and both Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 quickly became cult favorites, but sales were limited by the struggling GameCube. Rumors persisted for years that there was bad blood between Capcom and Nintendo over these games ending up on the PS2. (Additionally, Viewtiful Joe was developed by the team that ended up becoming Clover and, eventually, Platinum Games.)

Nobody really liked PN03, so it stayed on the GameCube. (To be fair, it had some ambitious ideas about rhythmic action, and Shinji Mikami later tried to iterate on some of those ideas in Vanquish, which was developed by Platinum.) The last of the five, Dead Phoenix, was simply cancelled and never released, though IGN loved to rumor monger about it being retooled as a Kid Icarus revival.

Killer 7 was also initially intended to tie into a series of games Suda had developed previously, the "Silver Case" games, and crossover characters can been seen in early trailers for Killer 7. Not entirely sure why the connection was dropped, but it's probably either to do with the amount of control Capcom has over Killer 7 as an IP, that the game was set to be released in North America when none of Suda's other games had been, or perhaps simply it was just the development process changing the scope of the story. (Nevertheless, one of these earlier games that Killer 7 was originally intended to loosely tie into, a PS2 game, was eventually localized to North America via a pretty completely butchered DS port. )

Edited July 8, 2011 by Sno

[Squid Division]

Weren't the GC and PS2 versions released at the same time, unlike RE4 though?

[Sno]

Weren't the GC and PS2 versions released at the same time, unlike RE4 though?

That appears to be correct, but Killer 7 also had several protracted delays and i think it was the last of the "Capcom Five" to be released.

[Noyb]

I don't have my Wii or Gamecube with me, and probably won't be participating myself, but I fully support this endeavor.

[Roderick]

Killer7 scares me, I have it and played through the wonderful first level, but then came some horribly difficult bits that scare me!

I'm frightened...

[toblix]

I would be in for this if I could track down a copy of the game.

[Raff]

I sold this with a load of my late Gamecube games in a clearout years ago and I don't even have a sufficiently out of date TV that would support a GC at the moment. It doesn't seem to be very expensive on eBay though...I wonder if it runs OK on Dolphin.

[toblix]

I... might be able to make this work. It involves pirates and dolphins and Xbox controllers, but since it's basically impossible to get a hold of through proper channels, it's fine.

[Hermie]

I... might be able to make this work. It involves pirates and dolphins and Xbox controllers, but since it's basically impossible to get a hold of through proper channels, it's fine.

This is the weirdest mental image.

That said, I don't think I'll be able to track one down, but I'm still very interested to see what you all say about this game, as it has fascinated me for a while, yet I never got around to playing it.

[Armchair General]

I was not aware that game was available for video games. Can tell of wow gold? Are your pants available for raping through? How is babby formed?

***STANDARD BOT RESPONSE***

[Squid Division]

I booted up the game last night to see how far I ever got in it (I still have no idea as the game doesn't tell you what chapter you're in). How did this game ever get made and brought outside of Japan, let alone get the good reviews it got? It's pure fucking insanity.

[Raff]

Is it too late to switch to something else?

[a purple future]

Is it too late to switch to something else?

hahahahhaha mail post me a copy and we'll talk

edit: oh god i just realized it's a new release

[Raff]

On CD-ROM!

[toblix]

So, wait, is it multimedia?

[JonCole]

I managed to find the single copy within a 30 mile radius of my house and it was in like new condition (from Gamestop, which makes it miraculous). I'm in if I can dig out the GC from the closet.

[Squid Division]

So, around when should we say that we should have 00 and 01 completed? How many people want to participate that don't have the game already?

Is a week and a half too soon, or is two weeks too far away?

[Sno]

Regarding how we should break this all down, since i already know how the story goes, i've done some faq-digging to try and sort out how long all the missions are. If we want even chunks of game time for each week, it'd look something like:

Week one

Target 00: Angel

Target 01: Sunset, Part I

Target 01: Sunset, Part II

Week two

Target 02: Cloudman

Target 03: Encounter, Part I

Week three

Target 03: Encounter, Part II

Target 04: Alter Ego, Part I

Target 04: Alter Ego, Part II

Week four

Target 05: Smile, Part I

Target 05: Smile, Part II

Target 05: Smile, Part III

Target 06: Lion

So how does that look? Breaking up Target 03 shouldn't have any serious consequences, there is a good stopping point at the end of the first part. This setup should result in a fairly even four hours each week.

As for deadlines, lets say this sunday is the start date, so people still sorting things out have at least a couple days. Next saturday should be the deadline for the first group of levels, then.

I think we should also be able to discuss spoilers for the current group of stages as of this sunday, and just set a clear warning for when spoilers on those current stages begin. It'd let people discuss the game while it's fresh on mind, or ask for help if they're stuck.

Naturally though, if anybody has any other ideas about this, speak up. Lets come to some consensus.

[JonCole]

I suspect four hours a week might be a little much for some people, but I think I might be able to manage it. As far as spoilers go, I think we should talk spoilers after the "deadline". So, up until next Saturday (7/16) in the setup you described, we could discuss basic mechanics and gameplay type stuff. Then for the next week, the first two targets would be fair game. That way, we can set more easily find the last post on Friday and edit the OP with something like "spoilers for week 1 begin at this link", "spoilers for week 2 begin at this link" and so on. That way, people who are a week behind or something could have a clear place to stop and start reading.

Make sense?

[Sno]

I suspect four hours a week might be a little much for some people, but I think I might be able to manage it.

Yeah, i realize that, i definitely don't want to create a situation where people feel they can't keep up. More than just excluding people from the proceedings, feeling like you're struggling to rush through a game is just absolutely not conducive to an enjoyable game experience. I just also don't want to draw it out so long that it thins out the conversation. Killer 7 isn't an immensely long game, it might be a little sparse to try and stretch out over too long a period.

Still, after rethinking it, i believe simply having two weeks for each of the blocks i proposed would probably work fine, but i wouldn't want to slow progress through that game any more than that.

If anybody has good ideas about how much time we should allocate for reaching each milestone, or different ways we should divide up the game, i'd like to hear it.

*snip*

Make sense?

I don't think i follow completely. Generally though, you're saying that gameplay discussion should be allowed, and story spoilers should wait until the deadline so everybody has had a chance to go through that block of levels, right?

We could also just liberally abuse the spoiler tags. Story spoilers from previous levels are free game, story spoilers from current levels are properly tagged, and then just hope that we can all agree not to spoil later events.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Sno

[JonCole]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that spoiler tags don't discriminate what week they're spoiling. So to deal with that, I just propose that right before the deadline of each week we edit the OP with a post number that signifies when the next week's spoilers begin. Otherwise, yeah, we could liberally use spoiler tags and just keep them off of fundamental discussion points like gameplay mechanics and such.