Maximum disappointment confirmed - Prey gets a sequel

[Dr. Proton]

Furthermore, Prey 2 looked fantastic. Too bad it's apparently being reworked. But if it's Arkane, then I'm optimistic they'll take what was good about the demos shown and expand upon that.

But their making another game from scratch. Prey 2 is no longer about bounty hunting alien scum and Bethesda has chosen to lie to everyone for over the past year about the game. Not giving Human Head the respect they deserve for supporting the Prey franchise for over 10 years by constantly telling the public its because of their lack of experience Prey 2 was delayed is an awful way to run a business.

[Twig]

Define "from scratch". Do you have an inside track on exactly what they want the game to be? Whether or not Bethesda has lied about whatever this or that and whether or not they're starting the game over are both irrelevant to what the game will end up being, if it does in fact end up being. Arkane could still very easily take inspiration from what made the game so exciting to everyone who was excited. You're confusing shitty business tactics with shitty game development. Arkane is not Bethesda.

[Dr. Proton]

"Last week, the tipster—who I've confirmed is indeed in a position to have this information—says, Bethesda finally forced their hand: Arkane would develop Prey 2, scrapping all the work that Human Head has done and starting from scratch, with a targeted release date of late 2016. Some people at Arkane Austin are upset about this decision, our tipster said, but higher-ups at the company are telling the team to forget that it's called Prey 2 and just treat it like a new System Shock—the first-person PC series that inspired games like Bioshock and Arkane's last project, Dishonored." 

 

http://kotaku.com/we-hear-the-people-behind-dishonored-are-now-working-on-510646344

 

Remember today's email leak came from inside Arkane Austin. Developers that aren't happy with Bethesda's playing fast and loose with the truth. I love Arkane, but I can't support bullies like Bethesda. I would hope if the roles were reversed and Human Head took over development duties of Dishonored amid rumours of developer strikes, hostile takeovers people would stand up for them. They were both in a similar situation. Arkane's last game was Dark Messiah (2006) and Human Head's was Prey (2006).  Independent developers that were both coming off promising cancelled games (The Crossing and H.H.'s Ubi-Echo project).

[Thrik]

That's what I mean. It just seems off to me that Arkane is being railroaded into doing this game that I'm not entirely convinced that many people are bothered about in the first place.

I'm not saying the original game was a failure (I meant Prey 2's development), nor am I saying this is a particularly unusual thing. I'm just saying that to me it's a bit odd that so much bollocks has occurred around a sequel to Prey, which in my opinion was an adequate but wholly unremarkable shooter.

As I say, I was a little confuzzled but not exactly shocked by the decision to make a Prey sequel as they did (my reaction was more '... why Prey?' due to the complete lack of connection). But I am genuinely saddened by Arkane getting dragged into the mess, and it sounds like they are too.

[Twig]

I feel like we're arguing past each other so I'll just finish by saying that I wholly support calling shitty business practices out for what they are. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore a potentially quality game from a known quality developer, though.

[Frenetic Pony]

It's so neat to see folks inside of Arkane Austin standing up to Bethesda's lies. That takes real courage. If they're found out, they'll loose their job for sure. I can't imagine what it must've been like for Human Head this past year. Being slandered is bad but if the rumours about how Bethesda and Zenimax are basically mis-using milestones and the lending of money to bleed developers dry happen to be even remotely true that's one of the worst gaming industry stories I've heard.

 

There's got to be a reason a ton of people, including John Carmack and Todd Hollenshead left Id.

 

 

 

I feel like we're arguing past each other so I'll just finish by saying that I wholly support calling shitty business practices out for what they are. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore a potentially quality game from a known quality developer, though.

 

Why not pirate the game? That's what I'd do. I like putting my money where my mouth is, I refuse to buy games made by really shitty practices and have funded kickstarters and bought games just because people seemed really passionate or consumer friendly. I never played Sins of a Solar Empire (I know, it's great right?) but I bought it at launch simply because I might have liked it and they refused to include DRM.

[miffy495]

Or, if you're voting with your dollars, you could just not play it? That doesn't mean you're ignoring it. In fact, you could be quite vocal about saying things like "Oh man, this game looks really good. Too bad I can't bring myself to support its publisher" and maybe send the publisher a few emails to that effect. Individually you may not have any impact, but if they get enough of that it would be harder to ignore.

 

I really don't get the "I like putting my money where my mouth is, so I'm going to pirate it" argument. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, do that. Games are an entertainment product and there's plenty more out there. You don't need to play this specific one, and if you really are THAT desperate to, then swallow your pride and pay for it. It's good to buy games from people that you want to support, regardless of rather you actually have the time to play them or not. I do the same thing. I don't think that that would give you the license to go the other way and NOT pay for things that you do play though. It's not really a zero-sum game like that.

[Dr. Proton]

Or, if you're voting with your dollars, you could just not play it? That doesn't mean you're ignoring it. In fact, you could be quite vocal about saying things like "Oh man, this game looks really good. Too bad I can't bring myself to support its publisher" and maybe send the publisher a few emails to that effect. Individually you may not have any impact, but if they get enough of that it would be harder to ignore.

 

I really don't get the "I like putting my money where my mouth is, so I'm going to pirate it" argument. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, do that. Games are an entertainment product and there's plenty more out there. You don't need to play this specific one, and if you really are THAT desperate to, then swallow your pride and pay for it. It's good to buy games from people that you want to support, regardless of rather you actually have the time to play them or not. I do the same thing. I don't think that that would give you the license to go the other way and NOT pay for things that you do play though. It's not really a zero-sum game like that.

Couldn't agree more.

 

I won't be buying another Bethesda game. I love Arkane and Bethesda Game Studios, but people are more important than games. 

[Frenetic Pony]

Or, if you're voting with your dollars, you could just not play it? That doesn't mean you're ignoring it. In fact, you could be quite vocal about saying things like "Oh man, this game looks really good. Too bad I can't bring myself to support its publisher" and maybe send the publisher a few emails to that effect. Individually you may not have any impact, but if they get enough of that it would be harder to ignore.

 

I really don't get the "I like putting my money where my mouth is, so I'm going to pirate it" argument. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, do that. Games are an entertainment product and there's plenty more out there. You don't need to play this specific one, and if you really are THAT desperate to, then swallow your pride and pay for it. It's good to buy games from people that you want to support, regardless of rather you actually have the time to play them or not. I do the same thing. I don't think that that would give you the license to go the other way and NOT pay for things that you do play though. It's not really a zero-sum game like that.

 

So, if I'm not going to pay for it, you're thesis is I shouldn't use it. Why?

 

I said I'm not paying for it. I know I'm not. I'm not harming the producer of the good, I'm only helping myself by using it anyway. It's a fundamental paradox between our capitalistic society and post scarcity, I know. But that's really, really the way it works. You can go to the piratebay right now, download photoshop, and use it, and if you weren't going to pay for photoshop ever then Adobe's bottom line isn't affected either way.

[Dr. Proton]

A former Human Head employee weighs in:

 

Bethesda once said "I think all of the stuff that you’ve heard at this point has been from one side of this, and it’s been somebody putting spin on it, like, ‘here’s what happened.’ No, that’s your version of what you think happened. I haven’t heard from anybody yet that actually sat in the room."

 

Having sat by the room, all I can say to Bethesda is you reap what you sow. Anyone feeling sorry or defending Bethesda in this thread are only delaying the moment they'll feel betrayed for trusting crafted chit-chat and placating smiles.

[Twig]

Why not pirate the game?

Because, shitty business practices from Bethesda the publisher notwithstanding, I will not pirate a game. Like, what. Miffy is right. Don't play it if you feel that strongly. Your half-assed justifications are horrific. All that aside, I will gladly support a developer who makes good games. I don't believe for a second that anyone at Arkane wants all this shit that's happening around them.

 

And another thing! I don't know why you suggested that in the first place.

[Dr. Proton]

Of course they don't. That's why someone from inside Arkane Austin leaked an internal email. You would have to be a horrible person to want to scrap years of work for petty, political reasons. It's nice to see someone stand up for their fellow developers and expose what Bethesda tried to hide.

[Twig]

Man I feel like you keep trying to start arguments with me about things I never said. I don't think it's intentional (or, at least, I hope it isn't), but you're just throwing me for a loop at this point.

[Frenetic Pony]

Because, shitty business practices from Bethesda the publisher notwithstanding, I will not pirate a game. Like, what. Miffy is right. Don't play it if you feel that strongly. Your half-assed justifications are horrific. All that aside, I will gladly support a developer who makes good games. I don't believe for a second that anyone at Arkane wants all this shit that's happening around them.

 

And another thing! I don't know why you suggested that in the first place.

 

It's not a justification. None of you give a single reason not to pirate a game I might be interested in enjoying but not in rewarding people for. Not one logical reason. You're basing your entire assumption on how you "Feel about it" which is just opposed to how I feel. I don't think anyone at Bethesda deserves a reward for ripping a game off a studio that worked hard developing it, and was then held hostage.

 

You on the other hand don't seem to give a shit. You don't care that a ton of people may have lost their jobs, you just want to feel good about yourself when you play a video game. You want to feel like your conforming to societal views, or rewarding someone who did their best even if it's for fucked up reason, or whatever your justification. I'm not proposing hurting anyone and you hate me for it, and you are proposing rewarding people for hurting others, and you give no argument otherwise. I fail to see the outrage here.

[Dr. Proton]

I'm not trying to start an argument with you, Twig. Sorry if it came across that way. Was not my intention. The only folks I'm annoyed with are the folks at Bethesda. I'm upset for Human Head, while you're concerned for the unnecessary scrutiny Arkane has come under. Both are understandable. But if you ask me, Arkane will be fine. Human Head on the other hand.

 

Prey 2 was a game that I was really looking forward to. Seeing reactions from folks being over the moon that another, albeit extremely talented, developer has taken over from the folks who created it. Dismissing their decade long attachment to the series is extremely disheartening. Just as superficially acknowledging their contributions is just downright cruel. "Prey 2's original concept looked cool, but lets get excited for a game that doesn't exist yet instead!" Can you imagine dedicating that much of your life to something that's snatched away from you? If you knew the sacrifices Human Head made for that project... Can imagine what that must feel like for Human Head? Teams like H.H. never get a fair shake. Mid-size indies are dying. 

[Twig]

You don't care that a ton of people may have lost their jobs, you just want to feel good about yourself when you play a video game.

I... okay. Sorry, I'm not interested in continuing any discussion with you.

 

---

 

Dr. Proton!

 

No, I totally understand. I'm very upset about everything that's happened to Human Head as well. It's completely shitty. My point is more that I was... never talking about them. I could go on a million rants about a million different things that bother me all throughout the video game industry. in this specific instance, however, I chose only to discuss a specific developer that I know I like being stuck in a different shitty situation and express my opinion that boycotting the publisher also entails boycotting the developer. And that's something I can never get behind. Not for EA, not for Activision (though in this case, I was never really interested in their output, sooooo it kinda happened anyway), and not for Bethesda.

 

The things that happened and/or are happening to Human Head are by far more atrocious, to me. I just, like I said, was never even talking about them.

[Dr. Proton]

Dr. Proton!

 

No, I totally understand. I'm very upset about everything that's happened to Human Head as well. It's completely shitty. My point is more that I was... never talking about them. I could go on a million rants about a million different things that bother me all throughout the video game industry. in this specific instance, however, I chose only to discuss a specific developer that I know I like being stuck in a different shitty situation and express my opinion that boycotting the publisher also entails boycotting the developer. And that's something I can never get behind. Not for EA, not for Activision (though in this case, I was never really interested in their output, sooooo it kinda happened anyway), and not for Bethesda.

That's completely valid. In this case, with this product, and what went down I just can't get behind it. But I know boycotting publishers, and as a consequence developers is a ludicrous position to take. This one just hurts me. I know some of the folks involved. What happened was cruel.

[Twig]

Okay, good, as long as I've finally properly communicated my position! Seems like we understand each other now.

[Dr. Proton]

Heck yeah, dude. Please excuse my ranting.

 

I think I'll calm down and play some Gone Home. Sayonara Prey 2!

[Dewar]

They hope to make it a spiritual successor to System Shock 2,

 

What? Why... huh? If they want to make a spiritual successor to System Shock 2, why do they need to take an established IP and do it. Why not just call it Ttechshock or something like the Bioshock guys did?

[I Saw Dasein]

Established franchises are seen as less risky, so it's probably easier for them to get money. Although "Prey" is barely a franchise.