BioShock Infinite

[soggybagel]

I do feel like the skylines/rails aren't used as much as I imagined. Now again, I loved the game but looking back I feel somewhat disappointed by the implementation because they're less of the freedom creating lines that were somewhat teased, and more often an optional circular route around set pieced action areas. They do allow for amazing verticality as Mington points out though. So they're good but not as mindblowing as I thought they'd be. Which isn't particularly fair to the game, but hey, I like to complain!

[darthbator]

I am of the impression those skylines are about as good as they possibly could be without slamming into technical limitations on map size or running into design problems where they're just not fun. They do introduce an element of verticality to the combat arenas and they provide a really strong freedom of general movement around those areas. 

 

However I think they're really best used as transportation and not as combat mechanics. They did a really phenomenal job of conveying speed while providing you look independence. I feel like the strongest use of those are when they're whisking you passed 100 foot golden statues and less when you're zipping through a combat zone. 

[TurboPubx-16]

In evaluating the skylines, I don't know what to compare them to. I had almost no clue they would be in the game at all. They are fun as hell, that's my opinion .

Edit: What I'm trying to say is, Infinite is so innovative that it introduces problems we've never seen before in games. It can be a confusing experience, to delight in something so deeply and yet somehow be able to list off a dozen disaappointments. It's somewhat akin to that multiplayer game you have hundreds of hours on and yet all you think about it is, his power is OP, the matchmaking is bad, etc.

[Frenetic Pony]

I'm not done, but there's so many cool things about Infinite that I don't care if the actual shooting itself isn't top of the pops.

 

I don't suppose wandering around while "stuff" just happens around you without wondering when you're going to shoot people is really that new. Deus Ex 3 and Dishonored had things like that, not too mention going back to Half Life 2. But it's done so much better here that it "feels" new. Like you never "just" got to wander around in a normal place, as if you were a normal dude in those other games. You were always the center of attention, and usually infiltrating something or about to wreck some shit or etc.

 

It's more interesting from a pacing perspective. In Deus Ex you'd always have an objective where you're clearly going to get into some shit in mind. Here you can be "ok, I'm out of it, I just need to walk into this place and-" and then shit drops ON you. It would be nice in other games to see something similar for sections, to just have something to do, in world that doesn't feel immediately hostile all the time like most such games do. Walking around Hengsha or Detroit, or any other such area in a similar game, almost always feels dark and oppressive and alien and... very video game-esque. Which is something that Infinite manages to avoid even if it's being utterly fantastical.

 

It's probably because people are DOING stuff, average stuff, while going about it. Eating ice cream, working, hanging out at the beach. Other games you always just see them standing around like they don't know what they're there for, or maybe doing some sort of ridiculous little animation that doesn't really seem relevant EG

 

 

The civilians in Infinite seem more like they fit in, like they're people. It's a high water mark for this sort of stuff. I also don't know how the frak a third Bioshock: Subtitle would beat this art direction. I keep finding myself looking out the windows and balconies to just stare at the city. Game is GORGEOUS!

[Sno]

Has anybody picked up on the vigor combos? I haven't seen anybody mention it here.

You can apply elemental effects to possessed enemies or an instance of crows, things like that.

[Frenetic Pony]

Has anybody picked up on the vigor combos? I haven't seen anybody mention it here.

You can apply elemental effects to possessed enemies or an instance of crows, things like that.

 

Cool! I just go the ultra expensive Crow Aid, which supposedly lays a crow trap everytime someone dies from crows, but the enemies have so much health now that I'd have to specifically finish them off with it for it to work as such. Which makes me feel a bit like I just save up and wasted over a thousand silver eagles

[Sno]

Given that the crow trap is extremely powerful and costs a fair chunk of your salts, the way it works is still quite a gain.

It would be insanely overpowered if it was this thing that could just propagate by itself.

[Frenetic Pony]

Given that the crow trap is extremely powerful and costs a fair chunk of your salts, the way it works is still quite a gain.

It would be insanely overpowered if it was this thing that could just propagate by itself.

 

It's worked a few times, I've figured out that you have to shoot them while the crows are going after them for it to work, otherwise they'll almost always survive and the aid wouldn't have any point.

[darthbator]

That crow aid made that game easy mode IMO. That and the centurian shielding vigor make the game almost absurdly easy. IMO. I did not find any of the combos!?! Where/how do those show up. I have done 2 play throughs now and somehow I have NEVER seen this!

 

 

Edit: What I'm trying to say is, Infinite is so innovative that it introduces problems we've never seen before in games. It can be a confusing experience, to delight in something so deeply and yet somehow be able to list off a dozen disaappointments. It's somewhat akin to that multiplayer game you have hundreds of hours on and yet all you think about it is, his power is OP, the matchmaking is bad, etc.

 

What? I don't really think Infinite is doing much of anything new. If anything it's given a new high water mark for art direction and world presentation in video games. Even it's strongest elements are IMO well treaded ground. Not to say it's not an incredible game but I don't really feel like it did anything "new" or "different. I just think it executed very cleanly on it's extremely traditional elements. 

 

I actually find this to be a way way way more video gamey video game then the original Bioshock was.

[darthbator]

Can I not delete my own posts? Accidentally made a double here! 

 

[Sno]

Possession combos, for example, are as simple as possessing a guy and setting him on fire with Devil's Kiss. Congratulations, you've created a minion that is both on fire and exploding.

There's a bunch of possible Vigor combos. Combining Shock Jockey and Devil's Kiss with other things is the easiest way to discover some combos.

[soggybagel]

In evaluating the skylines, I don't know what to compare them to. I had almost no clue they would be in the game at all. They are fun as hell, that's my opinion .

Edit: What I'm trying to say is, Infinite is so innovative that it introduces problems we've never seen before in games. It can be a confusing experience, to delight in something so deeply and yet somehow be able to list off a dozen disaappointments. It's somewhat akin to that multiplayer game you have hundreds of hours on and yet all you think about it is, his power is OP, the matchmaking is bad, etc.

I think you're being slightly hyperbolic. My issues with gameplay and story telling near the end aren't new issues that we've never seen.

[melmer]

There's 8 combos, I looked it up to get the achievement and found I had done most of them without even realising. It was only the 2 possession combos I hadn't done as the enemy was now on my side I didn't think to attack them with another vigor.

Combo - Possession + Shock Jockey: Possessed Lightning Conduit that electrocutes enemies.

Combo - Possession + Devil's Kiss: Possessed Fire Conduit that burns enemies

Combo - Devil's Kiss + Charge: Multiple spreading fire bombs spawns at target.

Combo - Murder of Crows + Devil's Kiss: Sets crows on fire and burns enemies.

Combo - Murder of Crows + Shock Jockey: Electrifies crows and electrocutes enemies.

Combo - Bucking Bronco + Devil's Kiss: Launches a cluster of bombs from a floating target.

Combo - Bucking Bronco + Charge: Send floating target careening forward.

Combo - Undertow + Shock Jockey: Boosts Shock Jockey's power.

[elmuerte]

Pfff... just finished it. Interesting ending, nice way to tie up the whole "bioshock" name.

Apparently I missed quite a bit. I think I missed 5 voxaphones and 2 telescopes/picturethingies.

The asylum part sucked. For the first time in the game I kept running our of ammo and salts. After 2 quiet boys I figured out to simply possess the lot and you more or less skip the whole fight. Trying to sneak past never worked.

[soggybagel]

I managed to sneak by 2 of the encounters. I did have very little ammo as well though.

[youmeyou]

Weird, I had almost no trouble at all sneaking past them. They even give you a second or two of breathing room to duck back into cover before they become fully alerted. Loved the turn around surprise quiet boy Bioshock 1 throwback after you unlock the door. Perfect.

[darthbator]

I don't know if he didn't trigger for me or something but I somehow totally missed that one. I only saw it during the giant bomb spoilercast

[Frenetic Pony]

I'm having a hard time finishing this game.

 

Everything is now a cooked up combat arena that only vaguely resembles a real place, there's never any cover, every enemy has a ton of health, there's never enough ammo.

 

I'm not having fun, even though I want to advance the story it feels like slogging through combat arena after combat arena where I can't even run away from enemy fire to do so. Maybe I'll just turn it off hard and get it over with.

[osmosisch]

Just turn down the difficulty. It only really affects bullet-sponginess of enemies.

[Frenetic Pony]

Just turn down the difficulty. It only really affects bullet-sponginess of enemies.

 

Cool.

 

I also suspect it's because of where I am

Fink Industries.

The place isn't as interesting or beautiful as the last, nor as well laid out or paced, though I suspect I missed doing something because Elizabeth is harder to hear and the layout is odd. Also

 

the story doesn't make shit for sense at the moment. Wtf would Fink want with me? I get the "oh you're supposed to crack down on the workers" coming. But, seriously he's done that by what? Trying to kill you? I get why Slate went mad, even though it would have made far more sense to go after Comstock than you. But this just seems like a flimsy excuse to throw enemies at you.

[Sno]

Honestly, i think the whole Finkton stretch of the game is the weakest stuff in Infinite. There's a lot of story problems, and the gameplay loses a lot of momentum.

As for the difficulty, if you're not having fun, don't play on hard.

Though i will say, the game felt to me like it had been balanced around the hard difficulty. I thought everything clicked in a really satisfying way.

[youmeyou]

I agree that hard mode is well balanced, save for this fight (and i agree with everything soggybagel said here). I was able to play the second two iterations on hard only because I just kept running to vending machines for ammo. I think I spent a grand beating the second fight. I bet there's a strategy on how to approach this but I could not figure it out at all.

 

Some later game issues I have.

The boss fights are not particularly fun or good. Fighting Elizabeth's mom multiple times isn't fun. Not quite Deus Ex:HR boss bad, but they weren't fun at all because nothing about dying against her teaches or informs you about mistakes you made. You basically have to run around like a mad man and avoid her giant concussive wave attacks that murder you fast. Plus the fact that she can continue to raise guys from the dead means your limited ammo can really fuck you. Combine that with the fact that when you die they regain a lot of health it just makes sense to restart from the last checkpoint which is also annoying due to no quick save. I really hate that you can have Elizabeth spawn a barrel that say, has shotguns in it, but once you pick it up you can't keep getting ammo from it even though the barrel has multiple guns still in it. It's weird.

[Sno]

I'll agree that the fights with the siren are decidedly less than awesome, but i got through without needing to rely on vending machines or anything.

I don't really have any grand strategy to share for it, i ran around like a panicking idiot swapping out empty weapons with literally anything i could find, trying my hardest to keep enough of the zombies down that the siren would be occupied reviving them. I think that's probably the key there, keeping her occupied. When she's resurrecting her minions, she's stationary and easy to land criticals on.

[osmosisch]

I would say that

the siren part

is even worse. Both are kind of iffy though.

 

I found hard to be OK except for handymen and the spoiled bit.

 

 

Honestly, i think the whole Finkton stretch of the game is the weakest stuff in Infinite. There's a lot of story problems, and the gameplay loses a lot of momentum.

As for the difficulty, if you're not having fun, don't play on hard.

Though i will say, the game felt to me like it had been balanced around the hard difficulty. I thought everything clicked in a really satisfying way.

[Sno]

Oh, i loved the handymen fights, i thought they were big highlights of the game.

The first key to fighting them is to not use shock jockey, they're not vulnerable to it. It seems like everybody tries to use it against them, but it's not going to help any. (I usually stick to Devil's Kiss, but i'm told they're actually particularly vulnerable to the crows.)

The the other thing is that when they start leaping to close distance with you, if you stop backpedaling and just start strafing around them, they will hugely overshoot and fly way past you.