Cataclysm

[Grufff]

I stopped playing WoW about 3-4 months ago but reading that summary of changes has got me really interested in going back to see what they've done with Elemental Shaman. I'm just a little cautious of getting hooked on the game again though.

Dibs, if you do try your shaman as Elemental, let me know what you reckon.

What's the raid content looking like in Cataclysm, or have details not really been realised yet? I haven't paid any attention to the game since I quit.

[Thompson]

I stopped playing WoW about 3-4 months ago but reading that summary of changes has got me really interested in going back to see what they've done with Elemental Shaman. I'm just a little cautious of getting hooked on the game again though.

Dibs, if you do try your shaman as Elemental, let me know what you reckon.

What's the raid content looking like in Cataclysm, or have details not really been realised yet? I haven't paid any attention to the game since I quit.

From what I can see, 4 raids are in Cataclysm.

Baradin Hold (This only has one boss, will probably be added to along the lines of Vault of Archavon)

Blackrock Mountain: Blackwing Descent

The Bastion of Twilight

Throne of the Four Winds

Achievement Highlights:

Silence is Golden - Defeat Atramedes in Blackwing Descent without any raid member's sound bar going over 50%.

Double Dragon - Kill 6 Twilight Fiends in the Twilight Realm and then defeat Valiona and Theralion in the Bastion of Twilight.

I Can't Hear You Over the Sound of How Awesome I Am - Defeat Sinestra in the Bastion of Twilight on Heroic difficulty on the first attempt without letting any raid members die.

Who knows what the sound bar mechanic in Blackwing Descent will be...

Edited October 18, 2010 by Thompson

[Forbin]

@dibs

Druid healing is a lot of fun. I've been raiding since BWL was launched on my druid, and I've raided on a paladin and priest for a while as well, but the druid right now is the best healer I've ever played. You always have the right spell, whether it's long rolling HOTs, quick large heals, or AoE heals it's great.

I'm a bit sad they made bear swipe on a cooldown, tanking is more interesting now, but also way more work as people do not give you any time to grab aggro before they start bombing shit.

[Roderick]

The Cataclysm intro cinematic has been released and I like it.

The monologue is typical over-the-top Blizzard writing, which you either like or you don't. Though I've found it increasingly hard to appreciate (my first groan-moment was a couple years back when Illidan shouted 'you are not prepared' at us), the cinematic wins me over with really nice shots of Azeroth devastation. And you must admit, that's one bad-ass dragon!

Arguably the strangest thing about the cinematic is that the guys who are refitting Deathwing with armaments seem like pretty large people, whereas they're supposed to be Goblins. Weird!

[Forbin]

Yeah there's something very gripping about seeing those place get destroyed. It's like the cliche moment in movies where the statue of liberty is blown to shit, but it's much more personal because every one of those places you've spent dozens of hours in.

I forgive the tone because unlike StarCraft it's expected of the genre, and if anything it's needed to fuel interest in a campaign the size of the expansion.

[Thompson]

Nobody beats the Blizz.

That cinematic was fantastic, what's even more awesome is that every piece of destruction Deathwing wrought upon Azeroth in that cinematic is in-game. (and MUCH, MUCH more, of course) Stormwind is particularly spectacular and there are loads of changes beyond the cataclysmic damage you would expect.

[dibs]

I loved the statue toppling at the end.

Gruff: I tried ele a few times. I'm not going to lie, i mostly just cast Earthquake and giggled to annoy the tank (who is usually dps and pulling aggro from my when i tank on ze druid). Oh, and thunderstorm when i had the chance:P

Earthquake is nice to have. once unleash weapon gets in it will be nice to have a little more intricacy. I'm gonna try it out some more when i can. The main issue is i play hybrids 99% of the time, so i usually get put healing or tanking when i join a random making it hard to get a feel for dps.

Thanks for the druid feedback Forbin, i'll try and scrape together some gear to try it out! I'm finding the same on my holy priest at the moment, there is a lot i can do to keep my party alive, i just have to be smart about it. I've cursed myself a few times for picking the wrong chakra state. I really can't wait untill mana becomes an issue again. The whole triage and "bearly enough healing" game was what i loved about being holy in BC (when priest was my main). I really like the pseudo downranking they introduced with the 3 basic heals on each class. Running a few instances i've rarely found time for Gheal but flash has saved the tank a few times - when 85 comes i really want to feel the punishment of that quadruple mana cost:D

As for the 6s CD on swipe, i couldn't be happier for no more swipe spam:P. Again, i think the changes will shine in new content, but for now its nice to be able to hit other buttons than swipe. I maybe was lucky since i have a warrior tank as well and i knew what it was like to not have your aoe on demand. Its going to be good to mark up, CC and have the dps focus fire again!

Overall i'm really excited about cata. The return to mana meaning something for healers, individual mob control for tanks and focus for dps is looking good. Oh, and hard heroics \o/

edit: re the sound bar, i predict we will be riding around in giant bells.

[toblix]

It's pretty incredible. I played this on and off for about a year after launch. Never played the expansions, never joined a guild, never got higher than level 46 or thereabouts. Still, all this talk of destroying the game world gets my panties in such a bunch, and all the memories start to surface. I don't remember the gameplay itself as being incredibly fun, but I do remember the locations and characters, and I feel strangely attached to them now that they're being all destroyed. I almost want to start playing again, just to revisit the old starting areas, Westfall, The Crossroads, etc before they are lost.

I really wonder if players will one day be able to wander around in the pre-Cataclysm world, like a museum.

[Thompson]

Blizzard has explicitly made it clear that they will never create pre-cataclysm servers. Once it's done, it's done.

There are on going collaborative projects to catalog and preserve the old world before the cataclysm via screenshots and videos but the ones I followed either collapsed under their own weight or just won't be done in time.

For a lot of people the Cataclysm is going to be hard to stomach but I think in time we'll come to accept the changes. To be honest, a lot of it is the same with slight alterations or major modifications you could ignore if you tried hard enough.

There are, of course, some areas that are COMPLETELY different but I love how it's been done and I couldn't be more excited to continue exploring the old world. You forget just how vast it is until you try to go back and see EVERYTHING again now that it's new, i've barely scratched the surface of what's new in my time in the beta and i've already seen stuff that blows my mind.

One more note, for anyone who loves pop culture references in their WoW, I recommend you go and give Old Blanchy in Westfall a visit.

[dibs]

If the 0-60 levelling experience is as tight as Northrend is currently then i think they will get a lot of peeps playing. I don't think the gameplay will improve a whole lot for early levels* but the whole drawing you into the world will be really solid. I personally have seen enought of Westfall and Crossroads, but I'll be levelling a worgen (probably hunter) to see the new quest chains!

*that said getting kitty at level 10 and a button for enhance shammys to press at low levels will really improve the experience for a lot of people!

Also, they have made patronising tooltips that we still see at level 80 to help ease people in^^ I like the lock one about the spell making monsters very angry the most.

Edit: speaking of tooltips, i had hoped they would have inicluded a dr damage by default. In league of legends the tooltips say stuff like "hits for 250 (+80) magic damage". The blue denotes you get extra damge from your ability power, red from attack damage, green from elsewhere. It lets you see at a glance what kind of coefficients you are getting from your stats.

"pop culture references" i hope its more depeche mode references:P

[Thompson]

I'll be levelling a worgen (probably hunter) to see the new quest chains!

Edit: speaking of tooltips, i had hoped they would have inicluded a dr damage by default. In league of legends the tooltips say stuff like "hits for 250 (+80) magic damage". The blue denotes you get extra damge from your ability power, red from attack damage, green from elsewhere. It lets you see at a glance what kind of coefficients you are getting from your stats.

"pop culture references" i hope its more depeche mode references:P

You have no idea how awesome the worgen starting zone is. I envy you, you're going to be able to experience it the first time without reporting bugs and trying to figure out if anything is broken.

Those tooltips were pretty insulting, until I turned them off. It's in the help section of the options, for future reference.

[Twig]

I was actually really... disappointed with the cinematic. I thought it was boring. I've loved every single Blizzard cinematic I've ever seen, but this one was just... some big huge dragon (yes, I'm well aware how important he is to the lore, trust me) flying around destroying things.

Although, in retrospect, WotLK trailer wasn't much to speak of, either, but I guess the Big Bad was also much more recognizable on a personal level. I only know Deathwing from the books I read (don't laugh ;_.

I also know that while the trailer is all grimdark, once I get into the world it will be JOKES JOKES JOKES once again.

Of course, I've already preordered Cataclysm because I am weak and, what the hell, I love playing the game with my buddies.

[Grufff]

I just watched the cinematic and I can feel myself getting closer and closer to re-activating my account. It's certainly not their best trailer but it does draw you in and get you excited about playing the game again.

I don't think I can go back to devoting so much time to one game though, especially not raiding. Without raids, the game doesn't really appeal to me as I like to see as much content as possible.

Saying that, I'll probably have caved in by Dec 7th

[Chris]

pop culture references in their WoW

This is one of the reasons I keep not going back to WoW.

[Thompson]

This is one of the reasons I keep not going back to WoW.

You're not the only one.

Personally, i've always loved references so it just makes me love WoW more, but I have to ask:

Are they so intrusive and omni-present that you really couldn't play WoW without seeing them? And if so, why is it so disturbing?

[Chris]

You're not the only one.

Personally, i've always loved references so it just makes me love WoW more, but I have to ask:

Are they so intrusive and omni-present that you really couldn't play WoW without seeing them? And if so, why is it so disturbing?

It just makes the world stupid and goofy to me. I don't really have any great desire for the game to be as HOLY SHIT EPIC as the CG cutscenes are, because that's goofy in its own way, but the disconnect between what Blizzard tells you the game is about, and what the game is actually about, is just crazy.

Getting me to play WoW is already a bit of an uphill battle, because of the repetitive nature of the questing and leveling and all sorts of other issues, but there are times every once in a while when I think "Maybe I'll give this a shot again," and those are the times the stupid "pop culture references" dissuade me. So it's not that that aspect does it on its own, it's that they're sort of the straw that breaks the camel's back of my tolerance for MMO gameplay and world conventions.

[Thompson]

It just makes the world stupid and goofy to me. I don't really have any great desire for the game to be as HOLY SHIT EPIC as the CG cutscenes are, because that's goofy in its own way, but the disconnect between what Blizzard tells you the game is about, and what the game is actually about, is just crazy.

Getting me to play WoW is already a bit of an uphill battle, because of the repetitive nature of the questing and leveling and all sorts of other issues, but there are times every once in a while when I think "Maybe I'll give this a shot again," and those are the times the stupid "pop culture references" dissuade me. So it's not that that aspect does it on its own, it's that they're sort of the straw that breaks the camel's back of my tolerance for MMO gameplay and world conventions.

Fair enough.

MMOs are essentially the worst games ever made until you hit the top level and start raiding which is (I believe) the best gaming experience you can have, however getting to the top level is often just not something people will do. It's a shame but it's understandable, not everyone has hours of gaming time to devote to slogging to the highest level just to start the game when they could instead be playing any other genre and immediately having a good time.

I will say though, the Worgen starter zone is radically different to every pre-cataclysm one, it's a much more linear and directed experience which actually guides you through the game properly and lets you enjoy it about 2 million times more than anything else. (I haven't tried the Goblin starter zone yet) It features mini-cutscenes that show you the action, quests that actually have an impact on the world around you, characters interacting with the world in a believable way and generally everything WoW should have had all this time. In the interest of full disclosure the quests still have objectives like rescue 6 civilians but they're structured in such a way as to not be painfully tedious. Using the civilian example (An actual starting quest) let me paint you a mind picture. The city is under Worgen attack, guards are scattering all over the trade square fighting the invaders as they leap from the rooftops. The king is on horseback ordering guards and fighting off the rampaging Worgen with his blunderbuss, you are ordered to run from house to house and get the civilians inside said houses to make a break for the relative safety of the area of town over the bridge (and kill some of the Worgen while you're at it). You dart between each house amid complete chaos and knock on doors, as each civilian runs for salvation Worgen chase them down, you have to kill them before they can pounce on the fleeing human. You complete both quests and return to the king but what you find is not the same scenario as it was before you returned...

I won't go into any more details because that would ruin the experience, but what follows is not just grinding for levels, it's actually participating in events that (Literally) shape the world.

[Twig]

This is one of the reasons I keep not going back to WoW.

Man, I feel you. I was okay with one or two to start with, but it just keeps getting worse and worse. It really kills the world for me, and the world is the most important part of any Blizzard game! The stories tend to be boring and cliché, but the worlds are fantastic. Or... they were. (No doubt nostalgia clouds my mind here - I have yet to play SC2, because I am a dirty sinner boy.)

(This conversation feels extremely familiar.)

But I just have so much fun with my friends, and it's the only MMO that all of them will play. A few will occasionally try This or That, but never all of them. Warhammer, everyone got bored with the repetitive boring PVP. Age of Conan, everyone got tired of the bugs and lack of content past level 45 or 50 or whatever it was. EVE, everyone quit because it just takes too much TIME.

...I personally would love to go back to AoC, though. Despite its flaws, I had a lot of fun with it. ):

[Forbin]

I think it's a minor complaint. There's something great about the period when you play your first MMO and get sucked in to the experience, but if you're playing purely for the immersive experience I think you're really missing out on what makes the game great. The pop culture references can ruin your suspension of disbelief, but that really shouldn't last past a dozen hours in any game, let alone the hundreds of days people put into MMOs.

There is not a single narrative in WoW, every race, every zone, every npc faction has multiple quest lines. It's not only a challenge to tie all of that together into a single story, it's not necessarily a good idea. Players need a diverse experience, and everyone has different preferences. Experienced players will skip content they're not interested in, and recognize that there's always something else they could be doing.

But when you have a game that's by the nature of it's scope so diverse, you need to come out strong when establishing a major expansion plot. They need to establish that some major shit is going down.

[Twig]

But when you have a game that's by the nature of it's scope so diverse, you need to come out strong when establishing a major expansion plot. They need to establish that some major shit is going down.

But that major shit is literally (figuratively) drowning in stupid shit. It is literally (literally) impossible for me to ignore the stupid shit when it can be found around every single corner. The game didn't USED to be like that. I used to have to go out of my way to find the stupid shit, and because of that, it wasn't so stupid. It was just a nice little nod to some dude somewhere. But ever since TBC, it is continuously getting worse. I expect that trend to continue in Cataclysm.

Fortunately, the game is also getting less boring, in terms of gameplay.

EDIT: Just to clarify, though, I am not averse to goofiness in and of itself, but when Blizzard tries to convince me that there is some huge, epic story happening and I AM A PART OF IT WATCH ME SAVE THE UNIVERSE but then [a hypothetical] Jichael Mackson moonwalks all over my face during some raid, it is straight up annoying.

[Forbin]

But that major shit is literally (figuratively) drowning in stupid shit. It is literally (literally) impossible for me to ignore the stupid shit when it can be found around every single corner. The game didn't USED to be like that. I used to have to go out of my way to find the stupid shit, and because of that, it wasn't so stupid. It was just a nice little nod to some dude somewhere. But ever since TBC, it is continuously getting worse. I expect that trend to continue in Cataclysm.

Fortunately, the game is also getting less boring, in terms of gameplay.

Really? It's easy to take the stance that everything is always getting worse, but I think the pop culture references in particular seem to be consistent.

[Twig]

Really? It's easy to take the stance that everything is always getting worse, but I think the pop culture references in particular seem to be consistent.

I don't remember anything in vanilla WoW being as in-your-face as some of the crap I see now in WotLK. It's always been present, it just hasn't been prominent.

[DanJW]

Fair enough.

MMOs are essentially the worst games ever made until you hit the top level and start raiding which is (I believe) the best gaming experience you can have, however getting to the top level is often just not something people will do. .

Actually, the endgame bores me. I've done a bit of raiding, but it's hard for me to keep it up. The repetition, the guild-politics, (or the PUG-drama). I dunno, I never really want to do any particular raid more than once. Once I have seen content I want to move on.

So I actually prefer the levelling experience. I am at my happiest when I have a new continent to explore and new landscapes to marvel at. The community stance that "the endgame is the One True Game" sometimes really pisses me off.

I suspect the success of WoW is 90% down to it providing a better levelling experience than any other MMO.

It makes me wonder if it is possible to make an MMO in which you can develop a character indefinitely, without it becoming massively more powerful. Obviously there would be some increase in power but not to the usual extent. Instead deelopment would be about growth, diversification, becoming more unique and gaining history. This would be hard to do in a way that appeals to the hordes of OMG ai amz t3h 1337 adolescent-pattern-competitive-driven types. It's something I'll have to think about more.

edit: oh shit I'm in a WoW thread. Ahhhg! Must... resist... reactivation...

[Roderick]

I agree with you on that I've also always loved the exploration (I believe I'm of that type of MMO gamer, the explorer or whatever). But lately I've been enjoying the end-game a lot. With Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard made a tremendous (and succesful) effort to keep dungeons really short and beautiful, so it never really bores. There's also huge diversity and the way they set up the tier system is that you can now choose what you want to play, and you'll still get justice points to get good gear.

I've never liked endless grinding (ugh), but I've found that with the occasional dungeon I do, I still get a feeling of gaining a lot. I've also been getting a lot of positive impressions of the community as helpful and fun. That might be just the luck of the draw though

As for the memes, I can't really be bothered by them. WoW is such a rich tapestry of themes, influences and ideas that it's easy to just cherrypick the stuff you like and skip the rest. It's no different than, say, the internet itself: there'll always be places and things you dislike, but that's no reason not to visit the sites that you do enjoy.

[dibs]

I suspect the success of WoW is 90% down to it providing a better levelling experience than any other MMO.

One of the drivers behind the whole new world with massivly revamed questing experience is that they had only a 10% retention rate of new accounts. If what you said is true, their new player base will be going through the roof^^

IMO, i'd say their retention at high level is because they offer so many different avenues for people to play the game - hardcore raiding with hardmodes, casul raiding (pugging the lich king), LFG tool for epix from heroix, pvp, soloing, gathering, auction house mafia, dailies, rep grinds, mother fucking achievments for exploring the entire game (i can't handle being told when a guildie explores ashenvale), mount collecting, pet collecting...the list goes on.

as for pop culture references, i don't find them bad. maybe i miss a lot of american ones, but i don't find them that prevalent, and when i do i often get a giggle from them. that said, i'm never overly invested in the lore and setting of any game. what i love is combat systems and strategy (and in the case of wow, 10-25 peeps all working together on a boss).

As a side note, has anyone played Dragon's Quest IX and reveled in the delicious puns that get sent your way at every oppertunity?