Cataclysm

[Twig]

"Are you into furries?"

Just goes to show the worgen were made specifically for furries.

[Forbin]

I'm not going to play those worgen flirt videos and assume it's just yiffing.

RE: PvP

I've been browsing some of the liveblogs of Blizzcon, and it definitely feels like they're main priority will be the rated battlegrounds, and not the arenas. They've said things like "we know we can't forget arena, but..." and they gush about how great rated battlegrounds will be. They've even said that certain classes/specs may not need to be "arena viable" because they'll have their place in battlegrounds. Considering their earlier remarks about how Arena was a huge mistake (in terms of it's impact on balancing PvE and vice-versa), and the fact that Diablo 3's going to have arena combat, I would say that it's unlikely to be well focused in WoW. I just finished watching two 20 minute stalemate 3v3 matches on the Blizzcon stream, so I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Also, there will be a new CTF map. I think blizzard has learned it's lesson, that you don't need every battleground to have a unique game mode. I think they lost a lot of people with Eye of the Storm, and I have friends that have played for 5 years that haven't spent the time to learn how Wintergrasp works.

Speaking of which, they've confirmed that Tol'Barad(sp?) will be very similar to wintergrasp in function, and that there should be enough motivation for world pvp in it's downtime.

[Forbin]

So the final pre-cata patch 4.03a was released last week, and I'm absolutely blown away (IGN.com).

At first I just went around Orgrimmar emptied my bags, cleared my quest log. I explored the zones a bit, looking at how Deathwing had changed the geography. Exploring quickly got boring, as interesting as it was to see the old world renewed, it didn't seem that different, and what I really wanted to do was get into flight form it felt so sluggish.

Then I decided to level an alt to see the new zones. Holy crap. I expected things to be tuned slightly to remove grinding, and optimize quest flow. I did not expect a completely new game. It's something you can only experience if you start from scratch.

WoW has always had a somewhat ambiguous time line. The world was in a set state, and the story progressed with your level. If you decided to go back and visit low level areas, the same NPCs were sitting around, low level players were escorting the same guy you rescued, Hogger was killing newbs. You had to suspend your disbelief to reconcile the passage of time with the realities of an open world MMORPG. Wrath of the Lich king played around with phasing, allowing players to occupy the same space at the same time, in a different isolated state. I kind of figured that they would implement phasing into the new old-world, but I didn't know to what extent.

First of-all there is a new baseline for the time. Everything in Azeroth is happening post-sundering. For example, when you start a new undead character, you are resurrected by a val'kyr that you find Sylvanas has recruited after killing the lich king. They've found a way to turn casualties from the sundering and the horde alliance war into new Forsaken, with the Val'kyr's help. There have always been small changes as content changed, but now the old world is completely gone. You will do a few similar things, but the story (if you care for it) is completely different.

But if you're like the majority of players, and don't really care that much about the story, and find yourself constantly skipping quest text, you will notice the first significant changes when you enter the second zone. 1-10 is still prettymuch a tutorial in core game concepts, 11-20 is a showcase of Blizzard development.

It's not just Zones that are phased, certain NPCs are phased. You're not likely to see another escort NPC outside of the time you rescued them, other players will appear alone. You're presented a story line that feels deliberate. You're still free to do what you want, and go where you wish, but in the open world they've built a roller coaster of quests that is intensely satisfying.

Based on the way they've tuned the leveling, I bet that you could level 4 or 5 characters per faction to 60 without ever doing the same quest twice or stepping foot into a common zone. And Cataclysm isn't even out, this is all just the base game now.

It's ridiculous, the best game of 2010 is a 5 dollar copy of Vanilla WoW.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Forbin

[Gwardinen]

Mostly agreed, Forbin, post-Shattering WoW is better than the original in pretty much every way. There have been some niggles, though, as some of my favourite moments have been spoiled by technical difficulties or slightly dodgy design.

Basically, because I'm old fashioned or whatever, I like cutscenes and cinematics and things that are non-interactive. I know the tide is starting to go the other way on this but now and then I like to lean back and just absorb something.

It's for this reason, and that I'm a glutton for lore in-game, that I adore the sections that involve famous Warcraft characters turning up/being contacted in some way and just having a chat with each other. Post-Shattering has a lot of this pretty early on, and I love that. However, I do not love how it has been implemented, as I have experienced four of these instances so far and only one has worked 100% properly.

First experience: new troll very early starting experience (awesome, by the way) - Vol'jin shows a vision of himself speaking to Garrosh Hellscream. Worked perfectly. One of the first things I did post-Shattering. Loved it and began to become a Blizzard fanboy once more.

Second experience: still in the troll starting experience - Vol'jin contacts Thrall remotely. Except he doesn't. He stares at vision-Thrall, vision-Thrall stares back. Nobody speaks. Quite uncomfortable. Had to go to YouTube and look at Total Biscuit's video of the event in order to find out what was MEANT to happen. I think this is to do with the fact that another player was there and he had perhaps turned the quest in slightly before I had, but I'm not sure.

Third experience: new gnome very early starting experience (also awesome, by the way; the new gnome music may come up a little too often but damn it's good) - Climactic final boss battle at level 5 involving High Tinker Mekkatorque! Hell yes! Except no, as it is completely unphased and can be activated at any time by anyone with the quest (at least I hope only those with the quest can activate it) so the dialogue Mekkatorque has to start with and the dialogue he has with the boss before the fight itself can be 100% missed without realising it if you just then stumble onto the battle. In addition, it doesn't even reset instantly so if someone has JUST finished it and you're looking for it, you can definitely wander past exactly where you're meant to go without realising it because the characters won't be there. What's worse is that you can wander in just as the fight's finishing and conceivably get credit for it without the build-up. You would then literally MISS dialogue completely, which just terrifies my little dialogue-devouring brain. Why did Blizzard invent phasing and then decide not to use it at all in such a perfect situation?

Fourth experience: beginning of undead 10-20 experience (probably going to be awesome as Forbin says) - Sylvanas Windrunner speaks to Garrosh Hellscream. Except, again, she doesn't. Garrosh Hellscream sure speaks to her, but for some reason Sylvanas decides that she's tired of all this voice over crap at this point and just stays silent. I was with a party for this one and none of them could hear her. So it just sounded like Garrosh was berating a battered wife who was too frightened to speak up. Actually sort of disturbing.

I've heard there have been a number of hotfixes already, so I'm hoping all of this sort of stuff will get cleaned up. Particularly those problems that are more technical issues than design should get fixed, but they have marked weird moments of frustration in an otherwise overwhelmingly positive return to Azeroth.

[Forbin]

I thought it was slightly strange that Garrosh was voiced and Sylvanas was not during that interaction, but I had chat bubbles up so I knew what was going on. I think it might have something to do with the new streaming content system.

[colinp]

Yeah I ran into that Sylvanas problem, too.

But I'm definitely a Bliz fanboy and agree with you Forbin. WoW 4.03 is fantastic. The small niggles will be worked out in time.

They've really done an incredible job revamping the game.

[pabosher]

I'm currently downloading the client once again.

Does anyone know what will happen when I click play? I have both Burning Crusade and WotLK, and although I have the discs, obviously the codes have been used. Seeing as I've tied it to my Blizz account, it should just recognise that and let me access the content, right?

[Cult of Jared]

I quit WoW during the burning crusade. They made the game much better, but at the expense of the world. Emblematic of this change were the new dungeons, less 'places' and more 'linear paths through monsters'.

Are the dungeons still like this? Is the world still like this?

[Thompson]

I'm currently downloading the client once again.

Does anyone know what will happen when I click play? I have both Burning Crusade and WotLK, and although I have the discs, obviously the codes have been used. Seeing as I've tied it to my Blizz account, it should just recognise that and let me access the content, right?

If the expansions are tied to your account you need only install the latest expansion, the rest of the content is included.

Are the dungeons still like this? Is the world still like this?

Dungeons are still mostly somewhat linear* but raids are far more complex, Icecrown Citadel for instance (Instance, get it?) has 12 bosses spread over 5 floors and 1 airship ride, including one area where you can flat out skip 5 bosses and 2 miniature bosses.

* I say that so gingerly because there are some optional bosses, side paths, extra entrances and fast return paths but it's still a straight through progression. (Except for Trial of the Crusader which takes place entirely inside an arena)

[pabosher]

How do I do this then Thompson? Stick in my discs of WotLK, or will it prompt me when I re-activate my account?

[Thompson]

To be clear, I answered that question on Steam.

Also, go here for all the stuff you could ever want to know about Cata.

[Twig]

So, I caved in and resubbed, as I said I would.

Troll druid, fuck yeah. This is my third (fourth?) druid, due to changing servers once, selling that account (it wasn't mine to begin with, bought it for ten bucks from a friend who didn't like it shortly after the game launched, so I didn't feel guilty doing so - strange logic? yeah, probably), starting a new one on another different server, and then going back to my original server. I fucking love druid, okay. Troll druid forms are totes boss. Troll starting zone is rather lame. I wanted them to make a whole new city, but it just looks like a small village, one step above Orgrimmar's troll/goblin ghetto. ): Maybe future patches? I hope? Trolls are so rad.

Game continues to be infested with shitty jokes. Pun intended. They managed to get a poop joke in on me before I was level ten. Goddamnit.

But all that aside, Jesus, it's like a whole new game. I'm going to make an undead character (FINALLY) to level along that newly renovated quest line. I hear it's the best.

Northern Barrens is just barrens. But Azshara was neat fun. Ironically, I think I experienced less stupid goofy shit (or at least RECOGNIZED less) in the goblin zone, contrary to Chris' own experience. C'est la vie. Maybe I've just gotten used to it. The SRS BSNS stuff is all kinds of cool (I love Warcraft).

But JESUS CHRIST what the fuck did they do to Ashenvale?! Maaan so great. Perfectly designed for low-level world PvP. THANK YOU BLIZZARD. Thank you. Now I'm on to Stonetalon, which looks even better.

My level 80 warrior (which I transferred to play with my friends) is weak as shit. Goes to show warrior is insanely gear dependent (also I suck). Looking forward to getting him geared up again come Cataclysm time!

[Gwardinen]

But all that aside, Jesus, it's like a whole new game. I'm going to make an undead character (FINALLY) to level along that newly renovated quest line. I hear it's the best.

It really is. Both in terms of a whole new game and the undead quest line being awesome. I have a Horde levelling group going at the moment and decided to get them all to come do the undead quest line and it is gorram awesome. We're level 30 now and I've never enjoyed it so much before.

My one complaint is that we're now level 30 coming out of what is ostensibly a 20-25 zone, which means the next zone which is theoretically 25-30 is a bit pointless. What this means is we're probably going to entirely skip over the Arathi Highlands zone to go directly to the Hinterlands. Meaning we'll skip all the quests in a zone which might be incredibly awesome. Yeah, you heard me right, I am complaining about levelling too fast. What the fuck has happened to this game?

[Twig]

Stonetalon was pretty neat. Garrosh has a heart after all.

Booooo!

I was secretly hoping the melodrama nonsense between Vol'jin and Garrosh was a sign of things to come. SPLINTERING THE HORDE INTO SIX SEPARATE FACTIONS. FULL OPEN WORLD PVP. Of course, I knew the hope was hopeless, but it's fun to dream every once in a while.

[Orv]

Stonetalon was pretty neat. Garrosh has a heart after all.

Booooo!

I was secretly hoping the melodrama nonsense between Vol'jin and Garrosh was a sign of things to come. SPLINTERING THE HORDE INTO SIX SEPARATE FACTIONS. FULL OPEN WORLD PVP. Of course, I knew the hope was hopeless, but it's fun to dream every once in a while.

That made me realize Garrosh may not be a complete asshole. Just a really thorough one.

That said the

Large Daddy control bit

was amazing fun.

[Forbin]

My one complaint is that we're now level 30 coming out of what is ostensibly a 20-25 zone, which means the next zone which is theoretically 25-30 is a bit pointless. What this means is we're probably going to entirely skip over the Arathi Highlands zone to go directly to the Hinterlands. Meaning we'll skip all the quests in a zone which might be incredibly awesome. Yeah, you heard me right, I am complaining about levelling too fast. What the fuck has happened to this game?

Arathi is not good, so you're in the clear. I didn't finish it, but of all the zones i've visited it is by far the most old-school and reuses the most quests.

[Orv]

If I have to watch the commercial one more time, I might get a little stabby.

[Forbin]

Northern Barrens is by far the worst 10-20 zone i've seen so far. It starts off alright with a few new mechanics, but once you're at the crossroads you're pretty much doing all the same quests, just in a more streamlined fashion. Considering that your alternatives are Silverpine and Azshara, it's one of the most played out zones in the old world, and one of the most physically transformed by Deathwing I just don't understand it.

Redridge was a solid 15-20, with the cliche 80s action movie quest line. And Duskwood was very familiar, but vastly improved by reducing travel distances.

So far the best 20-30 zones I've seen is Hillsbrad, though I haven't gone to Stonetalon yet.

[Twig]

Yeah, Northern Barrens is balls.

Once you loop back to Southern Barrens, though, there's a bit of redemption.

1k Needles is awesome. U:

[Gwardinen]

So far the best 20-30 zones I've seen is Hillsbrad, though I haven't gone to Stonetalon yet.

It's a shame Hillsbrad is only 20-25, half the length of many of the other areas, as it's easily one of the best. That said, perhaps the brevity helps it not outlast its welcome.

For what little of the Alliance stuff I've done so far, Teldrassil is pretty much the same as it was but they have really streamlined and helped you out with some of the more annoying parts (like the barrow in which you have to seek various relics), and Darkshore is a decent 10-20 zone, though there aren't many genuinely exceptional moments. The new gnome early starting experience is great, and the music is fantastic, but it does play a lot. I've heard Westfall is good but haven't tried it myself yet.

[Orv]

Thousand Needles and Stonetalon are my favorite zones in the game now.

For cool mechanics and a cool story respectively.

In fact, once the old world is "the place to be" I'll probably have my hearth set to The Speedbarge, because really, the perma-buffs you get for KNeedles are amazing.

[Gwardinen]

I actually feel a little bad about saying Darkshore doesn't have exceptional moments, it does. Actually it has a few of them, but they just didn't quite hit for me as much as many of those in the Horde areas did. You get to ride an Ancient, which it sweet... but it's also short and seemingly a tad pointless. You also get to ride a dragon... but I'm a bit jaded on that since Northrend had you riding dragons every five minutes. You stealth around and listen to people! I actually quite like that. I'm a bit of a whore for dialogue. It's just a shame it's not voiced.

Also Malfurion's there but he looks weird. There's something about his model that sort of bugs me. Let me know if you guys agree or if this is just me.

[Forbin]

I actually feel a little bad about saying Darkshore doesn't have exceptional moments, it does. Actually it has a few of them, but they just didn't quite hit for me as much as many of those in the Horde areas did. You get to ride an Ancient, which it sweet... but it's also short and seemingly a tad pointless. You also get to ride a dragon... but I'm a bit jaded on that since Northrend had you riding dragons every five minutes. You stealth around and listen to people! I actually quite like that. I'm a bit of a whore for dialogue. It's just a shame it's not voiced.

Also Malfurion's there but he looks weird. There's something about his model that sort of bugs me. Let me know if you guys agree or if this is just me.

Darkshore doesn't seem as polished as it should be. They went to the effort to rework all those quests, but I feel like they ran out of time because like you said they sometimes feel pointless. Riding the dragon could have been as good as the quest in Storm Peaks, but it was poorly timed and over quick. I agree with the ancient, they ruined the momentum of that invasion.

Malfurion looks fine to me though.

[Orv]

Also Malfurion's there but he looks weird. There's something about his model that sort of bugs me. Let me know if you guys agree or if this is just me.

I sat there for 5 minutes trying to stare hard enough at his shoulders so they'd burst into flame. Maybe that?

[Gwardinen]

Riding the dragon could have been as good as the quest in Storm Peaks, but it was poorly timed and over quick.

That quest also disappointed me more because it was the ending quest of the whole group of Malfurion quests in Darkshore, during which Malfurion does sweet fuck all. OK he's holding the vortex together with the strength of his will, but man I would have loved to actually do something WITH him. Each of the quests in the group is semi-lengthy and they're introduced along the lines of the team building quests in Mass Effect 2, I got the impression we were gathering these people in order to have a climactic cleansing of some kind of the elemental craziness around that section of Darkshore.

Yet... no. We gather those dudes. They even show up next to Malfurion... and then they do nothing. I flew up on the dragon and shot a few enemy dragons for some reason, and then Malfurion just says good job and sends you on your way. The whirlwind is still there and you have seemingly affected pretty much nothing. For what is essentially the cap stone of a lengthy and multi-faceted quest chain, it really doesn't go anywhere.

Maybe you're right and Darkshore ran out of development time, because it definitely feels like there are a lot of build up quests that never actually come to a satisfying conclusion.