L.A. Noire

[JonCole]

RDR has managed to keep its value, it seems. Whenever I check out the second hand price in HMV, it hasn't really gone down in ages. (I think it's still £27, which is pretty amazing for a game that old.) That said, while I could lose LA Noire, I wouldn't trade GTA or RDR.

I remember I traded GTA back in for $35 and picked it back up for $5. You're right about RDR... though I don't really know if I value its sandbox enough to rebuy it at this point, despite how much I liked the game.

[Murdoc]

Yeah I feel the same Thunderpeel, I can pop in GTA or RDR at any given time and just run around and have some fun, I doubt I'll ever play the main missions again.

I just dont see myself ever playing LA Noire again; just not that kind of game. I still haven't even finished it actually, most people don't recommend that I do, lol. I just remember putting it down and haven't picked it up again, even though I did enjoy the time I spent with it.

[toblix]

I started replaying this thing to get max stars on everything, but it's just too god damn boring. So much of the time is spent watching the intro and getting in and out of cars to make it worthwhile, especially when the whole interview thing is so unpredictable. Whomever gets the achievement for max rating on all cases is either lucky, lazy (FAQ) or have nothing else to do but to constantly search the same locations for clues over and over again.

I feel sort of stupid for buying all the DLC now. I'll probably not go back and play all the cases I've paid for. Thinking back, the whole game has been a disappointment. Also, it doesn't help that the men and women who made it were treated like shit for all of seven years.

[Thompson]

Really, LA Noire? Restarting a case means watching the whole intro cutscene again with no way to skip it?

This is really the killer for me to go back and try to max out the game.

[toblix]

This is really the killer for me to go back and try to max out the game.

It might not seem like a big deal, but it gets boring fast since you've seen them before and anything you know you can't skip always feels like it's taking too long.

[miffy495]

My eye was on Miffy...

I know for a fact that Miffy...

I had no idea that you were trying to address Miffy...

The reason I brought up Miffy...

Dear god, I go to a music festival for 3 fucking days and suddenly I'm the most popular dude in the world.

[Nappi]

You were the most popular dude in the world but you blew it by being so cold and distant.

When did you become such a fucking diva?

[miffy495]

When I wanted to go watch Times New Viking, the Buzzcocks, the Muffs, Wild Flag, Shannon and the Clams, Thee Oh Sees, Fist City, and others (the named were the most memorable) play music about 5 feet from my face while I got an awesome tan. Man, that was a good weekend.

[toblix]

When I wanted to go watch Times New Viking, the Buzzcocks, the Muffs, Wild Flag, Shannon and the Clams, Thee Oh Sees, Fist City, and others (the named were the most memorable) play music about 5 feet from my face while I got an awesome tan. Man, that was a good weekend.

Hey, all those band names sound made up!

[miffy495]

They're all real, and all great. Wild Flag was probably my show of the festival. They have the guitarist/singer and drummer from Sleater-Kinney (since that band went on hiatus 5 years ago), if that helps your reference point. They're rad as hell.

EDIT: Buzzcocks would have taken it (hell, they helped invent punk music, of course they would have), but I've seen them live before. Still, nothing beats singing along to "Orgasm Addict" live.

[toblix]

They're all real, and all great. Wild Flag was probably my show of the festival. They have the guitarist/singer and drummer from Sleater-Kinney (since that band went on hiatus 5 years ago), if that helps your reference point. They're rad as hell.

EDIT: Buzzcocks would have taken it (hell, they helped invent punk music, of course they would have), but I've seen them live before. Still, nothing beats singing along to "Orgasm Addict" live.

Keep talking! I love to hear people talking about stuff I don't know anything about. For example, listening to fishermen talking about their fishing rods and tackle boxes.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I feel sort of stupid for buying all the DLC now. I'll probably not go back and play all the cases I've paid for. Thinking back, the whole game has been a disappointment. Also, it doesn't help that the men and women who made it were treated like shit for all of seven years.

Same. I've got two cases I paid for and haven't played, with a third on the way. Doh. Also, what's this about their treatment?

[toblix]

Also, what's this about their treatment?

This.

[Murdoc]

This.

So... it's a game by Rockstar?

Also, I couldn't find the details without reading in detail(aha) but its common industry practice to leave anyone who isn't with the company at release off of the credits list, it's a a favor if they add you to the special thanks section.

[Thompson]

This.

That is some seriously outragous violation of labour laws, those employees are entitled to overtime pay by law and should sue for every last cent. God I hated the prick talking about how it's fine that everyone else was working ridiculous hours for no additional pay because he was also working those hours, that doesn't make it right. :(

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ugh. Brendan McNamara sounds like a huge ass. I appreciate pushing yourself in order to make something great, but he doesn't sound like he has any idea about people or management or anything. Even less desire to play this game now.

[Murdoc]

That is some seriously outragous violation of labour laws, those employees are entitled to overtime pay by law and should sue for every last cent. (

No, actually they aren't, in a legal sense, game professionals fall under some weird regulatory status where if we're paid by a salary or a straight contract(which is every single one of us) we don't get paid overtime. I have never heard of a game artist in a full time job getting paid over time in any country.

This pretty much sounds like a typical Rockstar studio, without being a full fledged rockstar studio. At least rockstar gives out massive bonuses based on royalties (assuming you stay with the studio) afterwards, I wonder if Team Bondi has the same set up?

I wouldn't necessary blame the studios for these practices, I blame the governments that support these laws and allow the companies to exploit workers. With that said, if they did pay us overtime, you wouldn't see very many games being made anywhere with those laws.

Awesome system isn't?

[Thrik]

Some of the things described in that article are frighteningly similar to things I've experienced in the web design industry, so I can totally believe all that stuff went on and truly have sympathy and empathy for the staff who had to endure such conditions.

The impression I've got from the various industry people here and on my own forum indicates that things are getting better in the games industry, largely due to employees now realising they have the option of fucking off if they're abused; employers are also learning that retaining quality staff is optimal. I guess in places like Australia things remain a bit worse due to the relatively slow evolution of the industry, resulting in less options for dissatisfied staff.

[Roderick]

Now I understand why LA Noire is so disappointing, in the end.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Some of the things described in that article are frighteningly similar to things I've experienced in the web design industry, so I can totally believe all that stuff went on and truly have sympathy and empathy for the staff who had to endure such conditions.

The impression I've got from the various industry people here and on my own forum indicates that things are getting better in the games industry, largely due to employees now realising they have the option of fucking off if they're abused; employers are also learning that retaining quality staff is optimal. I guess in places like Australia things remain a bit worse due to the relatively slow evolution of the industry, resulting in less options for dissatisfied staff.

Yep, here in London it's very common for Graphic Designers to work longer hours than they're contracted for with no overtime. Never worked anywhere as badly run as Team Bondi, but I've heard stories, so I can imagine.

The film industry is a good comparison, because it relies on the passion of the workers, too. A normal shooting day is 12 to 14 hours. Thankfully, though, shoots tends to be short - a few months, tops, not seven years - and most importantly, they have unions that regulate working conditions (although I'm sure they're not always adhered to).

Something needs to be done about these exploitative game studios.

[Roderick]

Because of the nature of shoots and its duration, it's a completely acceptable norm there to work literally the whole day on a project. But no one expects, you know, Apocalypse Now. The games industry needs to be different though, because a. it's a desk job, b. it takes years.

I must admit that I recognize certain aspects of McNamara in people in my own working environment... Not terribly so, but the similarities especially in tone (dismissing criticism off-hand) are there.

[Thrik]

Yes, McNamara is basically the definitive asshole boss. I'd imagine anyone who'd ever had a bad boss can see at least a few parallels.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yes, McNamara is basically the definitive asshole boss. I'd imagine anyone who'd ever had a bad boss can see at least a few parallels.

Yep. He sounds like all the worst bosses I've ever had or heard about, rolled into one. What's especially sad is that once these morons have any kind of success they mistakenly believe it's because of, not in spite of, their management style. Which only makes them more insufferable as their ego inflates.

[Murdoc]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/69093/igda-to-investigate-la-noires

Im just confused why the IGDA decided to single this out this one time when that's pretty much the same way every Rockstar game is made among many other companies in the industry.

“Reports of 12-hour a day, lengthy crunch time, if true, are absolutely unacceptable and harmful to the individuals involved, the final product, and the industry as a whole,” Brian Robbins, chair of the IGDA Board of Directors

This is just hysterical to me.

[SiN]

Have we ever heard complaints out of Rockstar North? I remember complaints about RDR, and now LA Noire, but not for any of the GTA games. I know the Houser brothers are dicks, but I suspect on the whole, they treat their employees well.

This LA Noire stuff though, is ridiculous. I work in business software development, and yeah, we do crunch, but I've NEVER worked a 12-hour day, and I've NEVER been in crunch for more than a month or so. It's straight-up unsustainable!

12-hour work days for months or years at a time is not a sustainable development environment. If the hours were more reasonable, there would be less turnover, and higher morale. With that there would be less re-learning/re-factoring/bugs/etc. And given all that, LA Noire would have been a BETTER game, that got released SOONER, with LESS crunch!

I'm not sure there's a single valid argument against that.

What's worse though, is that McNamara has the audacity to downplay the role of his team. Notice how often he uses "MY" in that interview. The only time he says "we/they" is as a means to his own ends. In other words, when he needs THEM to develop HIS game. Where is the incentive to work 12-hour days when your "visionary" leader thinks you're disposable?

Moreover, given what an obviously broken game LA Noire is (I don't understand the critical acclaim, but I imagine the sales won't hold up), why would anyone work for him again?