Point-and-Click Adventure Games, Today.

[modeps]

I think I'm in a minority, but I can barely stand playing these adventure games anymore. I got a copy of S&M:Save the World for Xbox Live Arcade and really had to force myself to get through it. I'm rethinking playing of the new Monkey Island as well as, and considering not touching any of the titles that were recently made available on steam.

This is contrary to what I thought was going to happen in my head. I grew up playing adventure games, specifically the * Quest titles from Sierra (which went from graphics/text to point-and-click throughout the years) and absolutely adored them. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis was one of my all time favorite adventure titles... Even liked The Dig and Loom... but that was like 15 years ago.

Today, I find the style completely boring and unintuitive. I don't enjoy trying to interact with people using every item in my inventory and hear them say the same shit over and over. About the only thing I really like is the art style. I know Jake is here, so this may be sacrilege, but... am I alone here? Or can you really never go home again?

[DoctorKevs]

I think a lot of the love for adventure games now comes from the nostalgia that people feel from how it was when they first played Monkey Island, or King's Quest, or stuff like that.

As someone who never really got the opportunity to have this feeling-born in the early 90's- adventure games (especially the new ones from Telltale) feel like a breath of fresh air. But that's just me.

[Murderstorm]

It pretty much comes down to nostalgia for most people. I remember saving up my lunch money so I could buy the original Sam and Max... all like... 32 diskettes of it.

It is rare that an point and click adventure title does capture my interest now days though, it takes a really good story/funny characters to get the job done. I think one way developers could improve the genre with current titles would be to make it less about having to randomly try using objects on things and try to make a more open ended solution. Have their be several different objects when used in various ways could achieve a result of progressing the story, possibly in a different direction. Maniac Mansion is a primitive example of what I'm thinking of. While it would be much more difficult to make a game like that I think overall it would bring in people who aren't just fans of the genre.

[syntheticgerbil]

I think I'm in a minority, but I can barely stand playing these adventure games anymore. I got a copy of S&M:Save the World for Xbox Live Arcade and really had to force myself to get through it. I'm rethinking playing of the new Monkey Island as well as, and considering not touching any of the titles that were recently made available on steam.

This is contrary to what I thought was going to happen in my head. I grew up playing adventure games, specifically the * Quest titles from Sierra (which went from graphics/text to point-and-click throughout the years) and absolutely adored them. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis was one of my all time favorite adventure titles... Even liked The Dig and Loom... but that was like 15 years ago.

Well, I kind of understand what you are saying, growing up on them and having played many more adventures than the normal person... but I don't have a problem with them now granted they are made as well as the old ones I used to love.

I definitely had a syndrome when I was in highschool where I was on Gametz tracking down tons of adventure games I haven't played with my minimum wage, and even though I found some gems, I was more than mostly disappointed. I think there are a lot of people, especially on Adventuregamers.com who will buy up any adventure that comes out and rate it highly even if it is bad quality, just because high quality adventures don't come out much. I would have never played Little Big Adventure or U.F.O.s if I hadn't have done that though. Why people like certain adventure games or designers like Benoit Sokal is beyond me. I mostly get rid of the adventures I didn't want on Ebay or left them at my parents house.

I can't stand most modern adventure games though, especially the ones that all have that boring static 3D background consisting of only blue and brown look. I think they have lost their appeal more because of bad craftsmanship, boring characters, and bad writing more than the gameplay mechanics, which are never going to be too much different than what they originally were it seems.

I frequently see on forums where people are disappointed over and over again with new games like Runaway, Still Life, and Ankh yet still buy them all just because of the genre. While Adventuregamers.com is somewhat better, it doesn't help that ugly sites like JustAdventure.com and their ilk seemingly start with their lowest grade being an 8/10 possible and working their way up from there. I would rather people just not buy low quality adventure games and openly criticize them so developers don't think it's alright to deliver a subpar experience. I'm sure this happens in other game genres, but the adventure game is the only game I've ever been a genre nerd about.

I am looking forward to the Whispered World being good. Waiting for a definite English release.

[Cheetohands]

I still enjoy point and click adventure games but I've had a very similar reaction to other old games, especially the compilation discs like Intellivision Lives, Midway Arcade Classics, etc. I was a huge fan of the Master System and Genesis back when they were popular so I was thinking about buying "Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection" for PS3. I downloaded the demo on PSN, played a few games and changed my mind. For me these old games were a very important part of what has turned out to be a life-long gaming hobby but part of me is wondering if I should just let them stay in the past where my memories keep them special.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Cheetohands

[syntheticgerbil]

I still enjoy point and click adventure games but I've had a very similar reaction to other old games, especially the compilation discs like Intellivision Lives, Midway Arcade Classics, etc. I was a huge fan of the Master System and Genesis back when they were popular so I was thinking about buying "Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection" for PS3. I downloaded the demo on PSN, played a few games and changed my mind. For me these old games were a very important part of what has turned out to be a life-long gaming hobby but part of me is wondering if I should just let them stay in past where my memories keep them special.

If that set comes with all of the original Genesis Sonic games and Comix Zone, I don't think you will be disappointed either way.

[Shakesbeard]

I still enjoy point and click adventure games but I've had a very similar reaction to other old games, especially the compilation discs like Intellivision Lives, Midway Arcade Classics, etc. I was a huge fan of the Master System and Genesis back when they were popular so I was thinking about buying "Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection" for PS3. I downloaded the demo on PSN, played a few games and changed my mind. For me these old games were a very important part of what has turned out to be a life-long gaming hobby but part of me is wondering if I should just let them stay in past where my memories keep them special.

Just out of curiosity, what turned you off about them? Was it the controls, or the graphics or the rudimentary gameplay? Which games did you demo?

[SignorSuperdouche]

Why people like certain adventure games or designers like Benoit Sokal is beyond me.

I wouldn't say I like Sokal, but I found the world that Syberia was set in really interesting. Shame about the story, characters, puzzles, script, acting and just about everything else.

Actually I seem to remember thinking the music was good, although that may have been another game.

[syntheticgerbil]

I wouldn't say I like Sokal, but I found the world that Syberia was set in really interesting. Shame about the story, characters, puzzles, script, acting and just about everything else.

Actually I seem to remember thinking the music was good, although that may have been another game.

Well his sense of atmosphere is good, as well as his concept art, if not a bit boring. He was a comic artist in the past I hear and he really knows how to layout a background. I don't feel like the 3D artists at Microids made his work look so good when putting it in the third dimension.

I don't think video games suit him well though, at least not with him at the lead. I had to force myself to finish the first Syberia just to see what all the hubub was about, and it was a constantly tedious and disappointing exercise. I should have known better because I had tried a few years before that to force myself to finish Amerzone, also by Sokal, to no avail.

Edited July 16, 2009 by syntheticgerbil

[Chris]

I also found Syberia incredibly boring. I remember it being all the rage in the Adventure Game Community whenever it came out, so I became excited for it by some sort of osmosis, and then I ended up giving up after a few hours of extreme disinterest.

[lobotomy42]

Syberia was awful, but don't hold it against adventure games. There are still some modern ones that are quite good. *cough* Phoenix Wright *cough* The thing to keep in mind is that it's such a small genre these days that the budgets for these games are generally quite low, and so a very large portion of them are...crap.

But not all of them are. The ones that have been released under major publishers and snuck in under the name of "interactive book" or whatever are usually good. You may not love them, but I thought Telltale did a bang-up job on the Strong Bad games. Down the line, I'm also excited for Jane Jensen's Gray Matter, assuming it ever comes out.

Also, I can honestly say adventure games are *not* a form of nostalgia for me. When I started playing them, they were pretty much already dying off. I think I got into them right around the time Grim Fandango came out, and everyone was calling them "dead" by that point.

[Erkki]

I think nostalgia is part of what still draws me to adventure games, but I also still enjoy them. Telltale makes good ones now (Sam & Max, Strong Bad games are really good, Tales of Monkey Island seems like it's going to be even better), but the rest is hit & miss.

I've probably said this on these forums already, but personally, I would have liked to see the adventure genre evolve more towards something like Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, Penumbra etc. These are both horror games, but I'm sure a similar system would work in other settings and without any combat. Games like Half-Life 2, Beyond Good & Evil should have influenced them as well. And it still amazes me no studio has tried to do something like Outcast. Well, except Outcast 2

The recent adventure games other than Telltale's that I've played (not that many), some of which are supposed to stand out, have been interesting in some regards, but they sometimes seem go backwards, almost like an FPS that didn't let you look up & down. For example, Overclocked: History of Violence did interesting and perhaps even innovative things with the storytelling, but user interaction was somewhat crappy. Clearly their attention *was* with the story and other areas got neglected. I think even as adventure games are somewhat niche now, there are also niches within that niche and I get the feeling some developers don't even try to appeal to wider audiences. Maybe those niches are profitable enough for them?

PS. I'll be playing Ceville soon, just bought it on Steam along with the old LEC games. I liked the demo.

PPS. Also, this is an interesting article on Adventure Gamers, even if you probably don't want to read all of it (about World Of Goo, Braid, And Yet It Moves): http://adventuregamers.com/article/id,977

Where have all the puzzles gone?

There isn’t just one answer to that question, but one that leaps immediately to mind (rather literally, as you’ll soon discover) is the one you’d least expect... puzzles have moved into platformers.

[Horticulture Tycoon]

I'll tell you, the reason why I played adventure games as a youth was primarily because those were the games that told the best stories. But now, I think the quality of writing across all other genres have been elevated to the point that adventure games can no longer claim the distinction of being the only story-driven genre. Sure, adventure games can still tell a good story, but now an action game or platformer or strategy game can tell the same story just as well. That's wasn't really the case 15 years ago.

It's funny, because the gameplay mechanics that make up adventure games are actually the least conducive to storytelling, since as a mechanic it is designed to deliberately and repeatedly grind the story to a halt, preventing you from progressing further in the story until a puzzle is solved. Other genres might create a stretch of gameplay that is prohibitively difficult, but generally that is due to poor balancing and playtesting; it isn't a deliberate design choice to create that roadblock.

[syntheticgerbil]

It's funny, because the gameplay mechanics that make up adventure games are actually the least conducive to storytelling, since as a mechanic it is designed to deliberately and repeatedly grind the story to a halt, preventing you from progressing further in the story until a puzzle is solved. Other genres might create a stretch of gameplay that is prohibitively difficult, but generally that is due to poor balancing and playtesting; it isn't a deliberate design choice to create that roadblock.

That was all less of an issue once games started coming with the manual or people started publishing solutions in various PC magazines. There was also the Universal Hint System for a while, if anyone remembers that. The internet has completely solved the problem of you ever being stuck in an adventure game preventing you from finishing the rest. In a way, the early bragging rights were part of the fun for people it seems, especially by the score in Sierra games.

If I spend more than an hour or so trying to figure out the end of a puzzle, I'm not afraid to look what to do next. There are some who refuse to ever use a walkthrough and some who give bad reviews because they couldn't figure out what the designers wanted them to do, unwarranted or not.

There are some show stopping sequences for some on other types of games too, but like you said, it depends on the difficulty. Personally I'd rather be stopped from finishing a game by not figuring out a puzzle by myself than finding out I miss the twitch reflexes to beat a certain level or sequence.

Funny enough, a lot of adventure games have a higher replay value for me because I don't have to deal with any hard sequences again since I know what to do on the second playthrough, allowing me to sit back, relax, and enjoy. I wonder why 90s game reviews never took that into account when docking adventure game scores for their lack of replay value?

[Cheetohands]

Just out of curiosity, what turned you off about them? Was it the controls, or the graphics or the rudimentary gameplay? Which games did you demo?

The demo allowed you to play time-limited versions Space Harrier, Sonic 3 and Streets of Rage 3. That might have been the real problem--being disappointed with a demo of three games I didn't care for when I owned the system. Now that I think about it spending $30.00 to get Phantasy Star II, Dynamite Headdy, and Comix Zone is a pretty good deal.

[syntheticgerbil]

The demo allowed you to play time-limited versions Space Harrier, Sonic 3 and Streets of Rage 3. That might have been the real problem--being disappointed with a demo of three games I didn't care for when I owned the system.

I think the Genesis Sonic games are all very fun, especially Sonic 3 and Knuckles combined, but I don't know if that compilation does that.

Do you get a save state system on the Sonic Genesis collection? Because having that option to play with Ristar makes the game very fun. I wouldn't ever be able to beat the game otherwise.

[miffy495]

I started gaming back in the day with the Hugo's House of Horror series, and then got a SNES and played pretty much only platformers until I was 9, (about 1997) when a friend let me borrow his brother's copy of MI1&2. I thought they were pretty much unique until I was in my early teens, when I went back and played every LA adventure I could get my hands on. As a result, all of my adventure experiences happened right after the turn of the century and still felt really fresh and brilliant to me. Up to that point, I'd moved on to playing a crapton of shooters with high-end graphics, and still thought that Adventure games had aged far better than anything else. It's pretty much the only truly timeless kind of game as far as I can tell. Pointing and clicking does not age, and as the gameplay was so simple, they could do far more with the graphics than anything else at the time.

I've played everything Telltale has done up to now, and I'm still a long way from getting sick of the genre. It's a 3-ish hour a month habit that I fit in between more adrenaline-focused games. I find it a remarkably rewarding experience every time.

[Cheetohands]

Do you get a save state system on the Sonic Genesis collection? Because having that option to play with Ristar makes the game very fun. I wouldn't ever be able to beat the game otherwise.

"The hidden killer feature of this collection is the save state system. You can pause any game and save multiple versions of it to the hard drive and then load those save states instantly. You never have to mess with passwords or save points and you can flip between games as fast of popping out a cartridge. Then the next time you play that game you can start exactly where you left off."

Source: 8Bitjoystick.com

[syntheticgerbil]

"The hidden killer feature of this collection is the save state system. You can pause any game and save multiple versions of it to the hard drive and then load those save states instantly. You never have to mess with passwords or save points and you can flip between games as fast of popping out a cartridge. Then the next time you play that game you can start exactly where you left off."

Source: 8Bitjoystick.com

Very nice! The Sonic Mega Collection Plus had that feature too and it came in very handy. I was actually able to see the end of all of the Game Gear Sonic games as well!

[LOPcagney]

Yeah, I had a similar experience with miffy, not having played any of the LA games when they first came out. I started with Grim Fandango maybe 4 years ago. Seeing as none of my enjoyment comes from nostalgia, I can agree with miffy that I feel the genre just has an inherently ageless appeal.

I don't know if anyone here has played Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy but I played the demo and that's where I think adventure games should go: Bring the games into real-time and script the actions of individual characters, enabling the element of choice to disrupt or direct the order of event productively. It eliminates the "I'm stuck on this one puzzle".

Also, has anyone here played any of the old Pajama Sam games (or any of Humongous's games)? Apparently Ron Gilbert was involved with them, and they are the "adventure games" I have the most Nostalgia for, despite the fact that they were marketed as children's games. Can anyone who's played them recently speak on their quality?

[Chris]

I don't know if anyone here has played Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy but I played the demo and that's where I think adventure games should go: Bring the games into real-time and script the actions of individual characters, enabling the element of choice to disrupt or direct the order of event productively. It eliminates the "I'm stuck on this one puzzle".

I agree that the Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy demo represents a pretty encouraging direction for adventure games. I can't say the same for the rest of the game, though.

Also, has anyone here played any of the old Pajama Sam games (or any of Humongous's games)? Apparently Ron Gilbert was involved with them, and they are the "adventure games" I have the most Nostalgia for, despite the fact that they were marketed as children's games. Can anyone who's played them recently speak on their quality?

Yeah, I played one of the Putt-Putt games, I think that's all I'm familiar with from that group though.

[Shakesbeard]

Just want to chime in on this topic since it's pretty damn timely in my case, I've never really played adventure games but last night I spent about two hours playing what I have to guess is a fantastic introduction to the genre -

MOTHERFUCKIN' FULL THROTTLE

Of note:

- Holy shit the music is incredible. Having just learned aboit iMuse through reading about MI I was pretty excited and not at all disappointed when I would, say, pick up a picture and have a nice little piano tune seamlessly overlap the main piece of music as Maureen talks about her childhood. Simple, yet effective.

- Mark Hammil is great, as Ripburger and Todd in the first half hour of the game, I was nerding out like crazy.

- Seriously, the voice acting is top-notch. Hearing Maurice LaMarche (the BRAIN!) pipe up from the front seat in the opening scene actually made me giggle like a little girl.

- The gameplay is straightforward and easy to pick up. As someone who has simply no experience with the genre I can say that within thirty seconds or so I had come to terms with the basics, no problem. No tutorial necessary. I love the "click & hold" method of selecting objects, it's the earliest example of a sort of radial wheel menu that I can think of.

- Complaints of repetition and trial & error are non-existant at this point. I know it's still quite early in the game, but I've already gotten stuck a few times and I have absolutely no problem due to the atmosphere and characters. I don't mind running back and forth from the water tower/Todd's trailer/Todd's junkyard/Maureen's house trying different things because the music and the art create such a cohesive and engrossing atmosphere that I don't notice when Ben repeats himself for the tenth time. Bear in mind this is coming from someone who can and will get easily frustrated with a game and look at a guide for it. I don't think I could bring myself to do that with FT, there's a certain satisfaction I get from completing a puzzle that I don't remember feeling in many other games. (recent examples might be Braid and unsurprisingly, Sam & Max on the 360)

I could seriously go on and on (and I probably will as I get farther into the game) but I will stop myself here.

TL;DR - Someone who has never played adventure games plays Full Throttle, is blown away ign.com and raves about it, contributing very little to the conversation.

[syntheticgerbil]

Also, has anyone here played any of the old Pajama Sam games (or any of Humongous's games)? Apparently Ron Gilbert was involved with them, and they are the "adventure games" I have the most Nostalgia for, despite the fact that they were marketed as children's games. Can anyone who's played them recently speak on their quality?

I've played them recent enough just for Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman completionist's sake, but I also owned a few from the first batch of games growing up.

I'd say they all hold up pretty well, but maybe less so for Putt-Putt. Maybe I just think talking cars are stupid? I don't know. The Putt Putt games are also designed for the youngest audience, the rest being made for older kids. Spy Fox and Freddi Fish are still fun and have great art and animation that still puts a lot of modern cartoon adventures to shame. They are really just more like short adventure games. Pajama Sam was probably the best series, probably because Dave Grossman is credited to writing 3 out of 4 of them.

My favorite is probably Moop and Dreadly by Hulabee, Ron Gilbert and Shelley Day's failed company after Humongous. I played that one more recently than most, and I found it pretty hilarious for various reasons. Short though.

If anyone here has kids, I can't see any reason why these wouldn't be more enjoyable than any current kid's games on the market.

[Jayel]

- Holy shit the music is incredible. Having just learned aboit iMuse through reading about MI I was pretty excited and not at all disappointed when I would, say, pick up a picture and have a nice little piano tune seamlessly overlap the main piece of music as Maureen talks about her childhood. Simple, yet effective.

Though the music in the game is great, I don't think it uses iMuse. At least not to the same extent that older LEC games use it.

[syntheticgerbil]

Though the music in the game is great, I don't think it uses iMuse. At least not to the same extent that older LEC games use it.

It might for the parts that the Gone Jackals songs ramp up based on your actions near the epic events at the end of the game, but that stuff is still prerecorded so it probably doesn't work like Monkey Island 2. I don't know if they still considered that iMuse but it seems like the trademark was attached to the credits of all of their adventure games, if I'm not mistaken.