Books, books, books...

[syntheticgerbil]

Love Diablo Cody. Love Kevin Smith (for his dialogue, only). Love Aaron Sorkin. Love Billy Wilder. Love Leigh Brackett. Love Raymond Chandler. Love Gregory McDonald. Just love smart, witty dialogue.

To each to their own.

Yeah, I think so.

I know what you're saying here, but if the director lets the actor figure it out, and they give a cruddy performance, it's still the director's fault.

The director is there to ensure the footage that goes into the camera and gets recorded onto sound reels is the best version of the script possible (or they can possibly manage). That's what their job is.

On second thought, I don't know why I said any of this, it was stupid of me to suggest it is not the director's responsibility to ensure dialogue doesn't come off as forced or hammy.

Sure, Jeunet didn't know English well at all to even coach dialogue and I'm sure FOX appointed someone, but it's still Jeunet's fault for being there as a work for hire director in the first place. I'm guessing he knew he made some mistakes since he has since to work for hire to such an extent and has learned English, but he doesn't talk much about what he did for Alien 4 outside of the DVD commentary where it's really just piecemeal talk of the scenes so I don't know.

[Kolzig]

Sorry to derail this thread from the book topic, but to continue this Alien/Whedon/Jeunet talk.

I think I read once that Jeunet promised he would never again work in Hollywood after the Alien 4 fiasco. I think both Jeunet and Whedon are extremely talented guys and I've loved both of their works. I've seen all of Jeunet's movies except Micmacs and I have plans to watch that as soon as possible.

The main blame on that movie goes to the direction of the producers and Fox. It could've been an awesome movie, but it wasn't in the end.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Sorry to derail this thread from the book topic, but to continue this Alien/Whedon/Jeunet talk.

I think I read once that Jeunet promised he would never again work in Hollywood after the Alien 4 fiasco. I think both Jeunet and Whedon are extremely talented guys and I've loved both of their works. I've seen all of Jeunet's movies except Micmacs and I have plans to watch that as soon as possible.

The main blame on that movie goes to the direction of the producers and Fox. It could've been an awesome movie, but it wasn't in the end.

Jeez, I had no idea his English was so poor that he wouldn't be able to judge performances... What were Fox thinking? (Basic Requirements For A Director: Must be able to communicate with actors.)

(Also: I wasn't a fan of Micmacs, myself. I think Jeunet has incredible visual flair, but like other directors with similar talents (e.g. Tim Burton), he's not so great when it comes to story/characters. Although I LOVE the two films he did with Marc Caro.)

[vimes]

Urmm, I just realized I forgot to report my last reads to the Book Club!

On miffy495's and my current art director's advice I read Hell's Angels - a Penguin classic, really ? - and enjoyed its flawed objectivity thoroughly. Thompson is citing sources, facts, statistics and cross references testimonies, but he's enthralled by his own depiction of the Angels - society bystanders with no heroic status and no 'higher' philosophical outlook. I felt like he was as fascinated/giddy about it as mainstream public seemed to be about the gang-rapers image.

I really enjoyed the book when the money/fame aspect came into play since Thompson opinion sway in the opposite direction and there's thinly veiled disappointment peering through most sentence. The epilogue is fantastic in that aspect.

[Gwardinen]

I happen to be reading a book series at the moment that reminds me greatly of (but isn't) the Dresden Files. I recommend it to anyone who likes the idea of a magic in the modern world setting, and beyond that who likes funny but stupid and flawed characters. The first book is called Storm Front by Jim Butcher.

I will warn that it's generally accepted that the earlier books are not as well written as the later ones, primarily because the author was just beginning to write seriously when he created the first three in particular. If you find enough to enjoy in the first couple of books I'd be very surprised if the series didn't keep you interested all the way. It's currently up to book 12 or 13 and is planned for more, but each one is not Wheel of Time sized.

Edit: Also, if you've seen the Dresden Files TV series, ignore that. It's heavily adapted and, in my opinion, not nearly as good.

[Orv]

. . .Considering the books came first, I think your joke is flawed, if I'm getting the joke at all.

I will go ahead and recommend the books, though. Good stuff. Especially 7.

[Gwardinen]

I've somehow miscommunicated or you've misunderstood, I know the books came first and when I said the TV series is heavily adapted, I meant from the books. I wasn't making a joke, simply stating that if anyone has seen the TV series and not enjoyed it, they shouldn't write off the books as the books are, in my opinion, much better.

[Thyroid]

I just started on Oliver Twist. It's good if you can overcome the language hurdle, which isn't as high as it may initially seem. But for example's sake:

TREATS OF THE PLACE WHERE OLIVER TWIST WAS BORN AND OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES ATTENDING HIS BIRTH

Among other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born; on a day and date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all events; the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this chapter.

Oliver Twist was born in a workhouse.

It's still accessible and, honestly, quite good.

[Ben X]

I'd like to read A Christmas Carol at some point, that seems like it would be a good Dickens gateway for me (it won't be as good as Scrooged, though).

[ThunderPeel2001]

I'd like to read A Christmas Carol at some point, that seems like it would be a good Dickens gateway for me (it won't be as good as Scrooged, though).

Yeah, I started reading it and was surprised at how much dry wit was in it. Scrooge himself seems more fully-rounded than in any adaptation I've ever seen, too (he's always so two dimensional in movies, it's irritating). I should get around to finishing it.

[Orv]

I've somehow miscommunicated or you've misunderstood. . .

I happen to be reading a book series at the moment that reminds me greatly of (but isn't) the Dresden Files.

Something about that sentence threw me for a mental loop. Sorry to derail your good intentions! The books are great stuff, generally speaking.

[Orv]

*Rapid, repeated beard stroking*

http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html

[Gwardinen]

*Rapid, repeated beard stroking*

http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html

That was pretty great. I haven't really been reading much conceptual, philosophical sci-fi recently and that had reminded me how much I miss it. For some reason I'm rarely as intrigued and entranced by anything as much as I am something Philip K. Dick-esque like this. I really wish there were more of it done well, and that it had passed into other media more too. What I wouldn't give for a game that made me think like one of his stories.

[Orv]

High concept sci-fi is probably my favorite literature genre in existence. I really enjoyed TMOPI for a number of reasons, one of the main ones being that he's probably got one of the more realistic views of "everyone is immortal and can do whatever they want without consequence" that I've seen. Plus super-computer stuff always makes my mind tick over for a considerable period of time after I read it.

[Lu]

Oooh, I'm so excited! I just got The Wise Man's Fear in the mail, the follow up to Name of the Wind. It's a whopping 990 pages long and let the reading of said book commence... Now!

[Gwardinen]

Oooh, I'm so excited! I just got The Wise Man's Fear in the mail, the follow up to Name of the Wind. It's a whopping 990 pages long and let the reading of said book commence... Now!

I'm intending to start reading that tonight too. I happened to read the Name of the Wind just after its paperback release so I've been waiting for this one for a while.

[Chris]

I still can't help but wonder if you and Mr. Remo had pre-conceptions of what Whedon was before you saw something of his (and so came with expectations that weren't met?) or that you've only seen sporadic episodes of Buffy and Angel (and god knows there's some bad ones)?

I don't think I had ever even heard of him before everyone started talking about Firefly, which in turn I hadn't heard about until it was canceled. I watched the first few episodes at a friend's insistence, knowing nothing about the show, and didn't enjoy them at all. Then when Serenity came out on DVD, I was again persuaded to give it a shot, and I absolutely hated it.

I haven't seen any of his other stuff, including Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but based on how off-putting I found almost almost every aspect of Firefly and Serenity, I doubt it's worth trying to find out. I genuinely don't think I had any preconceptions about Whedon since I was essentially unaware of both him and his entire body of work before I saw Firefly. I'm sure I had heard of the Buffy show but I didn't know anything about it.

If I had to think of just one example that communicates the general kind of thing I found really cringe-inducing about Serenity, it would be that young-looking girl who kicks everyone's ass, whoever that was (I don't remember if she was in the Firefly episodes I saw). It's exactly the kind of unbearable nerd-pandering that basically makes something unwatchable for me. That's not to say if her character weren't there that I would have enjoyed it; that's just a concrete, easily remembered thing that pops to mind.

[ThunderPeel2001]

If I had to think of just one example that communicates the general kind of thing I found really cringe-inducing about Serenity, it would be that young-looking girl who kicks everyone's ass, whoever that was (I don't remember if she was in the Firefly episodes I saw). It's exactly the kind of unbearable nerd-pandering that basically makes something unwatchable for me. That's not to say if her character weren't there that I would have enjoyed it; that's just a concrete, easily remembered thing that pops to mind.

Interesting! Strange that you should consider that "nerd-pandering", when really it was just a character who happened to be a woman. She wasn't a dominatrix in a sexy BDSM outfit (see The Matrix, Terminator 3, etc.). She was just a woman.

It's especially interesting to me because your description of Serenity is precisely why I avoided Buffy for so long. I presumed the whole idea of the show was for teenage males to drool over watching Sarah Michelle Gellar kick-ass in skimpy outfits... When it turned out to almost be the exact opposite of that (it was actually about her as a person and the stuff she went through), I was shocked to say the least.

Still, thanks for explaining that.

[Lu]

I'm intending to start reading that tonight too. I happened to read the Name of the Wind just after its paperback release so I've been waiting for this one for a while.

Oh yes, I had pre-ordered it over a year ago! Imagine my surprise when the mailman dropped it off.

[Orv]

Oh shit, that's right! Pat promised TWMF for March! Where the hell is my nook!?

Now if only A Dance With Dragons and Republic of Thieves would have the decency to be finished.

[Thyroid]

Now if only A Dance With Dragons...would have the decency to be finished.

I have a feeling it won't be as good as the first three (well, I hear that 2 and 3 are as good as 1, but that 4 was kind of forgettable; I'll find out for myself soon enough), simply because all the yelling and screaming - all the "FINISH IT" he gets - will have made it a chore for him to work through it. The desire and energy isn't there. There will be no joy, no fun, no real sense of delight or surprise, in working on it. All the technical crap - prose, dialogue, your characters - will be there; but the fuel will have been burnt out by a thousand shouts of "FINISH IT". I don't envy him.

[Orv]

Hmm, it's a possibility. But we're talking about a fellow who, in his late 70s, went out and forged his own sword, because.

I've enjoyed all of them (even 4, which, yes, probably was the weakest point) and I have no doubt I'll enjoy this one. The question remains to how much, though.

Hurry up, Nook! I have a redhead to read about.

[Lu]

Shit man, I envy you. This is the first book that made me want a fancy eReader. The book is so big and unwieldy that it's rather hard to get comfortable with.

[Orv]

Shit man, I envy you. This is the first book that made me want a fancy eReader. The book is so big and unwieldy that it's rather hard to get comfortable with.

I got one around Father's Day, because I got free nonsense and a discount on a Nook around that time.

But once I saw Brandon Sanderson's "The Way of Kings" (excellent book, by the way) which is like

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That thick, give or take, and then how big a hardcover of TWMF is, I'm really glad I have it. I have TWoKs hardcover, because BIG STONKING BOOK, and I'll get one of TWMF, but those things are way too big to read comfortably without your own country.

[Gwardinen]

Seconding that the Way of Kings is really good. To be honest anything by Brandon Sanderson is good, I'm finding. The Mistborn trilogy is great.