Some free advice to Peter Molyneux...

[Ginger]

Doesn't he say the dog is one of the ways the minimap has been replaced? So u could probably get away with being a cunt to your dog. I’m glad there is a game where the love between a man and his dog can be truly and freely expressed ¬¬

[brkl]

I'd be willing to fuck a kid.

You twisted bastard.

[Rado]

To: People bringing up Syndicate

Subject: BEWARE!

Apart from being the head honcho of Bullfrog, Molyneux had little to do with it.

And say what you will, that Emily Dickinson game demo Sir Pete did with his crew was pretty impressive design-wise.

(plus: why no one ever mentions PowerMonger?)

[Wrestlevania]

(why no one ever mentions PowerMonger?)

Because Mega Lo Mania was more fun.

Also: Wikipedia says you're a liar... and at this point can I just say that I'm sick - to the very back teeth - of people insisting Peter Molyneux had so little to do with early Bullfrog titles. It's yet another stupid Internet myth that's easily dispelled if people bother to spend all of 3 seconds research it.

[Salka]

Heh I know people who have worked with Molyneux and claim the same thing - that he had little to do with some of those titles, and even some more recent ones... but then all those people hated working with him because he's apparently a twat... their opinion might not be particularly accurate either... I've never particularly dwelled on it, but out of interest, what makes you so sure he was heavily involved?

Wikipedia isn't really an ideal source of accurate information... for instance, on those two pages you linked... one claims he was the producer, the other claims he was a designer on Syndicate.

I've never put that much thought into it so I don't really know what to believe, but... yeah.

[elmuerte]

But MobyGames and Underdogs (and a lot of other sites) don't agree with Wikipedia. They say Sean Cooper created syndicate.

[Wrestlevania]

I'm aware Wikipedia isn't bomb-proof, but it's usually not wide of the mark either.

From reading about what Molyneux's done, since he first really started to appear, in magazines mostly. I was under the distinct impression Peter had a firm creative hand in all of Bullfrog's output--and Lionhead's for that matter.

Maybe I've fallen for his spin, though.

[vimes]

And say what you will, that Emily Dickinson game demo Sir Pete did with his crew was pretty impressive design-wise

No, that was bullshit : the demo he presented wasn't designed for the sole purpose of the challenge : it was an internal project for proof testing several gameplay choices of Project Dimitri. What Molyneux did what that he put a stupid justification to make it work within the game design challenge and that really, really got on my nerve.

[elmuerte]

I've fixed that wikipedia page, now we can claim again that Peter didn't have much to do with the early bullfrog games.

[Salka]

And there you go... the very problem with Wikipedia pages. We haven't actually established whether or not Molyneux was very much involved, but already somebody has edited the Wiki page based upon the latest assumption.

[Wrestlevania]

I've fixed that wikipedia page, now we can claim again that Peter didn't have much to do with the early bullfrog games.

Good work - and a good demonstration of your and Yuf's collective point.

But you didn't create an actual Sean Cooper* page! Bad you.

* If you happen to visit Sean's website, make sure you check out Boxhead: More Rooms--it's fucking awesome!

~~~~

Back on topic: Have we established yet whether or not you can kill your dog?

[vimes]

I would say you won't be able to : in a pre-GDC presentation Molyneux told that Lionhead's developers had just discovered that some testers were throwing the dog ball from near a cliff so that the animal would jump from it to catch the thing... and die in the process. He then said they didn't want that to happen so they implemented a self protection instinct in the dog behavior... he ontinued by saying that he didn't want to waste the dog's death scene; so to me, that means the dog being killed by his master will be impossible.

[Kolzig]

But you didn't create an actual Sean Cooper* page! Bad you.

* If you happen to visit Sean's website, make sure you check out Boxhead: More Rooms--it's fucking awesome!

Wow! Sean Cooper created Flood? Holy shit, that was one of my many favourite games on Amiga. Maybe the best ending ever in a game was in Flood.

[Wrestlevania]

I would say you won't be able to : in a pre-GDC presentation Molyneux told that Lionhead's developers had just discovered that some testers were throwing the dog ball from near a cliff so that the animal would jump from it to catch the thing... and die in the process. He then said they didn't want that to happen so they implemented a self protection instinct in the dog behavior... he ontinued by saying that he didn't want to waste the dog's death scene; so to me, that means the dog being killed by his master will be impossible.

What that says is the dog now has a rudimentary self-preservation instinct when it comes to natural hazards. (And I hope someone bought those testers a drink!)

But what it still doesn't explicitly say is that you won't be able to ventilate its head with a musket round should you so wish. What if you and the dog both engage the same enemy simultaneous? Will the dog miraculously dodge every swing of your sword or blast from you gun?

On the flip side however, Molyneux stating that he "didn't want to waste the dog's death scene" would imply that privelage is being reserved exclusively for a significant in-game event. Which means he's already - consiously or subconsiously - giving away too much of the meat of the experience in my opinion.

And just by-the-by: I've picked up a copy of Fable - The Lost Chapters on PC because of this discussion. I'm going to begin playing it tonight hopefully.

[Rado]

Also: Wikipedia says you're a liar...

(...)

It's yet another stupid Internet myth that's easily dispelled if people bother to spend all of 3 seconds research it.

And I say you're a douche. Internet myth my butt, I actually played Syndicate and sat through the credits, thank you very much. Also, note that I only meant Syndicate, not other early Bullfrog games like Populous or previously mentioned PowerMonger.

Finally, had you spent MORE than 3 seconds researching it, we would not have a feud on our hands now

[Wrestlevania]

No feud - this is me eating a big piece of Fuckwit Pie.

Oh, and welcome to Thumbs.

[vimes]

A feud ?

Gentlemen, I think we need to use it... I know using such powerful tool makes you uncomfortable, but here it is : behold Karimi's All Powerful Wisdom

[Rado]

No feud.

Hence the . It seems important to add that due to my limited English skills I'm not sure if you eating a curiously named pie is a good thing or not ...

[brkl]

Your English skills don't seem to be that limited...

[Rado]

Your English skills don't seem to be that limited...

I conceal my faults with fancy sentence structure. I sound formal and polite but most of the time have no idea what I'm saying.

[brkl]

I don't believe you. Okay, maybe you have some problems with register (minor problems), but people with limited language skills don't use fancy sentence structures correctly. Proper use of register is the last thing people learn anyway.

[Rado]

I don't believe you. Okay, maybe you have some problems with register (minor problems), but people with limited language skills don't use fancy sentence structures correctly. Proper use of register is the last thing people learn anyway.

See? I don't even know what register is.

To be honest, I've never been properly teached. All my knowledge comes from playing Maniac Mansion on C64 with a dictionary by my side. Police Quest was the next step. Amiga Action helped, movies with subtitles did, comics, even original scripts and novels later on. I tend to read a lot in English - we don't have Gamasutra here - and memorize phrases for future use. In other words, I believe I can communicate in English pretty good, but I honestly have no idea what I'm doing and why I say/write things the way I do. I just "feel" that a certain way is the correct one and run with it. It works during conversations, but really brings my self-confidence down a notch when I try to write a design document or a script in English.

[brkl]

See? I don't even know what register is.

Well, I'm a student of English. It's not a word that commonly used outside of that circle. It means choosing the right word for the occasion (formal or informal, etc).

I just "feel" that a certain way is the correct one and run with it.

But that's how native speakers do it!

taught

[Salka]

I like Rado

[ThunderPeel2001]

From reading about what Molyneux's done, since he first really started to appear, in magazines mostly. I was under the distinct impression Peter had a firm creative hand in all of Bullfrog's output--and Lionhead's for that matter.

Well, he certainly had opinions about each game that was being developed by Bullfrog, and plenty to say about each of them!

I don't think it's any coincidence that just about every game that Peter Molyneux has been involved with has pushed gaming forward. Yufster, are you saying that he just "happened" to have hired the right people at their own "creative peaks" and tossed them away? Whether he designed and coded the games entirely by himself, or whether he just created the enviroments where they grew, he still has been involved in some ground-breaking games.

From Sean Cooper's website: Re: Populous: "Designed and Created by Peter Molyneux, I was employed to help with this game from a YTS scheme in the UK."

Yep, it sounds like Peter sure owes a lot to Sean Cooper and has been clearly riding on his coat-tails ever since!#

Even if he didn't design Syndicate, back in the "good old days" games were only made by very small teams of people working in close proximity. It's highly unlikely that Peter just say in his office all day when the "real workers" did all the work!

Also, Yufster, even if he IS a twat in RL (which is a different issue), I imagine the same could be said by those who have worked with Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, Ridley Scott... just about any major director. At least Molyneux is someone who's passionate about what he does.

I imagine being told by everyone that you're great doesn't really do much for your humility, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's difficult to work with... Of course, it could be argued that's because he's passionate. I wouldn't mind hearing some examples of his "twatness", though, unless you were just ?