Jump to content
ThunderPeel2001

Zune...

Recommended Posts

I guess it's just an opinion of mine, and the term DRM-fucked is not an official one, but I think it describes well what happens when a product decides to apply copy protection to something without asking, without checking if applying the protection is in violation of other licenses.

It's apparently got far less restrictions that the iPod, and I don't recall anyone ever calling that "DRM fucked", so it just baffles me why it should be an issue now?

If I make an MP3 from a CD, it doesn't have any license information whether it was Michael Jackson or that band from down the road. So do you really think that they'd let the Zune just WiFi music to other Zune users with any restrictions, based on the license?

You've missed the point I think. I know plenty of people who use a range of those "pointless" features on a daily basis, and for Zune to not include those - for no obvious reason - won't mean these people suddenly ditch their iPods and take up Microsoft's hardware instead.

My mistake. The thing is, not a single person I know with an iPod uses any of those features. Not one. I've even heard complaints that there's "no games" available to download like on the iPod... I commute to London every single day (it's a nightmare) and I literally see about three people in my carriage with white headphones every single trip. Not once have I ever seen anyone playing games on an iPod!

If it was the other way around I can't help but think that people would be saying "oh, look at Microsoft's device trying to be something it's not! They should follow Apple's example and have streamlined their features. It's a music player, not a filofax, afterall!".

What? You want tons more space and really high quality video playback? AWESOME.

Indeed!

Let's go to the Zune marketplace and buy some... oh wait, THERE ARE NONE.

For how long, do you think? A month? Maybe two? Once they have the stuff available to BUY, will you be happy then?

Want automatic podcast support? Can't have it.

Well, I can still download them manually from the sites, which is what I do to most of the podcasts I'm interested in at the moment. But you're right, it would be preferable to have this feature, but it's not a deal breaker.

Doesn't play PlaysForSure despite Microsoft pushing it hard for years as an alternative to that evil closed system that Apple had going (which they now compied with Zune's DRM). AWESOME

This is totally, 100% fucked. I completely agree with you here. This is the type of decision which makes people hate MS in the first place. What a bunch of complete assholes! Thank god for fairplay4wm!

you buy a Zune and put all your own LEGAL music on it -- Universal gets a portion of your money. AWESOME.

It's the same price as a 30GB iPod or a 30GB anything. If it cost more because of that, I'd be unhappy, but it's just academic.

Microsoft points in the Zune Marketplace -- everyone loves those on XBox. AWESOME.

It's exactly the same with Apple and iTunes outside of the US, so it doesn't affect me. I think it's pretty shitty that they're making interest off my money (I assume this is what your point was?), but I'm stuck. Plus, since I have an XBox 360 account, at least it means I've only got one evil interest-stealing account to worry about.

Wi-Fi enabled! Except not. Even you admit that the possible killer feature is useless. It's not useless because of the tech. It's useless because of the DRM BS. AWESOME.

It's pretty useless alright, but as I've already pointed out, there's no way they were going to let people WiFi music based on user-added license options! Plus, there is at least some possible light on the horizon, as rumours are circulating about them adding more WiFi features post launch. We'll see.

Want to share your CC-licensed music with another Zune? Sure. Except for that fact that doing so ESSENTIALLY VIOLATES THE CC AGREEMENT. Awesome.

Huh? What? Confused. It seems to me that, one the one hand you're complaining that the Zune doesn't allow people to swap music for free, but on the other you're complaining about the violation of "CC agreements"?

What license agreements? It certainly isn't an agreement that says you must give the Zune a "good" review. Just look at the New York Times piece, or that Endgadget review ("my harddrive broke... it's the Zune's fault!"). So, what's your point? And most importantly, this affects me (as a potential Zune user) how?

My Sandisk. I can connect to ANY computer with a USB connection and drag and drop ANY mp3s into it without having to install anything.

AWESOME.

That's pretty nice, except the 8GB costs almost (or exactly) the same as a 30GB Zune or 30GB iPod, and has a screen which is nearly half the size. You must really love you're friends to want to share music with them so much!

I guess on the whole, since 90% of people's complaints about the Zune are completely true of the iPod (or just wrong), yet Apple (which is just as big and an evil corporation as Microsoft, on the whole) has good PR, so therefore musn't be as "evil" or something....? It's bizarre. Don't people realize that Apple uses sweatshops? They released iPods with a virus installed on them, but they somehow managed to escape criticism (they blamed Microsoft). They were successfully sued by Creative for stealing their property, but still people think they're this "honest" company that couldn't possibly do wrong. It just amazes me that people don't realize that they're being manipulated by the Apple marketing machine (not you specifically, n0wak), even "proper" journalists.

PS - I just ordered my Zune! I'm not a fan of iTunes, I hate their "wheel" scrolling thing and I fancy watching TV shows while I commute on a big(ger) screen. It's all good to me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what if have seen people don't think Apple is "this "honest" company that couldn't possibly do wrong". The "if you have bought music from iTunes you have to use iPod and vice versa" thing, for one, has constantly been brought up in both reviews and general mp3-player discussions. And the popularity of iPod alone has caused a strong anti-reaction. Some people even turn into these bizarre tech-preachers every time they see someone with a pair of white headphones.

Also, I have a feeling that right now someone somewhere defends iPod against other's complaints (the aforementioned 90% of Zune ones that apply to iPod as well) saying that Microsoft's new player has exactly those same flaws but people don't complain about them because Apple is this big and evil company while Microsoft is the undertaker.

(8GB Sandisk Sansa costs $50 less than Zune, is smaller in size, has a better battery life (and user replaceble battery), and has no moving parts, which could make it more durable. People who don't need more than 8GB for their stuff and know that they won't enjoy watching videos on 3-inch screen (in other words, use the player mainly for playing music), could save some money and pocket space if they decided to go with Sansa. What I'm trying to say is that you can't choose which mp3-player is better than another just by doing a price-capacity-screensize comparison.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From what if have seen people don't think Apple is "this "honest" company that couldn't possibly do wrong". The "if you have bought music from iTunes you have to use iPod and vice versa" thing, for one, has constantly been brought up in both reviews and general mp3-player discussions. And the popularity of iPod alone has caused a strong anti-reaction. Some people even turn into these bizarre tech-preachers every time they see someone with a pair of white headphones.
According to surveys by J. D. Power, Apple has the highest brand and repurchase loyalty of any computer manufacturer. While this brand loyalty is considered unusual for any product, Apple appears not to have gone out of its way to create it. At one time, Apple evangelists were actively engaged by the company, but this was after the phenomenon was already firmly established. Apple evangelist Guy Kawasaki has called the brand fanaticism "something that was stumbled upon."[34]

Macintosh users meet at the Apple Expo and MacWorld Expo trade shows where Apple introduces new products each year to the industry and public and Macintosh developers in turn gather at Worldwide Developers Conference. Many users show their loyalty and devotion by wearing Apple t-shirts.

Apple Store openings can draw crowds of thousands, with some waiting in line as much as a day before the opening or flying in from other countries for the event.[35] The New York City Fifth Avenue "Cube" store had a line as long as half a mile; a few Mac fans took the opportunity of the setting to propose marriage.[36] The Ginza opening in Tokyo was estimated in the thousands with a line exceeding eight city blocks.[37]

John Sculley told the Guardian newspaper in 1997: "People talk about technology, but Apple was a marketing company. It was the marketing company of the decade."[38]

See also: Cult of Mac

(8GB Sandisk Sansa costs $50 less than Zune, is smaller in size, has a better battery life (and user replaceble battery), and has no moving parts, which could make it more durable. People who don't need more than 8GB for their stuff and know that they won't enjoy watching videos on 3-inch screen (in other words, use the player mainly for playing music), could save some money and pocket space if they decided to go with Sansa. What I'm trying to say is that you can't choose which mp3-player is better than another just by doing a price-capacity-screensize comparison.)

I understand what you mean about not everyone needing a 30GB portable video player, but it still seems expensive to me. According to SanDisk's site, the 8GB model retails for $249.99. The battery life is 20 hours (compared to the iPod/Zune's 13/14 hours) and I cannot think of any reason why anyone would need more than 14 hours of continuous music playback in one day, and certainly not on a regular basis. The longest I'm away from an electrical outlet in one day cannot really be more than 14 hours... But I suppose there must be people who need longer...?

The Sansdisk doesn't support music bought from iTunes or Zune Marketplace, either, so that narrows people's options a bit.

I know it's more to do with how they're made, but the smaller capacity models like this still seem like a bit of a rip-off for those that would rather use them. Even Apple's Nano is the same price. It'd be much better if they were cheaper, but I suppose if size and durability are prime concerns it might be worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That review in particular is spectacular.

wrt the term "DRM-fucked", all DRM = fucked. Cracked in hours if not days, and otherwise just gets in the way of honest users. Such as any sucker who bought Plays4Sure music and would like to use it on a Zune.

Now, I wonder how long before it gets RockBoxed or suchlike and the wifi is wide open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

once, I LEGALLY purchased an album and tried to put the LEGALLY purchased music onto my LEGALLY purchased MP3 player but I couldn't because of copyright protect and let me tell you that SUCKED.

Anyway I found a way of doing it in the end but it was annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh-heh, the only reason I have an ipod is because my MP3 players kept breaking after 3 months, and I've been promised a 3 year 'no questions asked' warranty on the little blighter. It also means that I have sufficient back up space if I ever format my laptop.

Personally, part of the MS hate comes from being screwed over by that company so many times. Good to keep them on their toes and away from dominating markets. That way they might make sure their products actually work, unlike some other OS's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's exactly the same with Apple and iTunes outside of the US, so it doesn't affect me. I think it's pretty shitty that they're making interest off my money (I assume this is what your point was?), but I'm stuck. Plus, since I have an XBox 360 account, at least it means I've only got one evil interest-stealing account to worry about.

Apple has a points system outside of the US? I can't find anything about it on the iTunes Store wikipedia entry. Do they make you buy points in blocks that don't come close to equalling the value of a song, then try to cheat you and indicate that they think you're stupid by having songs cost 79 points, even though they actually cost 99 cents? If so, that's pretty fucking lame.

Also, did everyone here about the "lucky folks who get a surprise, limited edition hot pink version? It doesn't get more awesome than that!

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/28/zune-oddnesses-zune-pretty-in-pink-zune-on-a-mac/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Availability

To buy files through the store, a user must pay with an iTunes gift card or a credit card with a billing address in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, or the United States. Other people can only download free podcasts and previews.

I don't see anything about a ridiculous point system that doesn't correspond to actual currency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They were successfully sued by Creative for stealing their property, but still people think they're this "honest" company that couldn't possibly do wrong. It just amazes me that people don't realize that they're being manipulated by the Apple marketing machine (not you specifically, n0wak), even "proper" journalists.

As long as I'm questioning your various iTunes/iPod digs, I think that the Creative thing was settled out of court. While I don't think that Apple is a completely "honest" company, those Creative patents were so obvious that they never should have been granted in the first place.

The first link I found on it:

http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/apple_creative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's, finally, a decent review that ACTUALLY lists all the awful things about the Zune, but also the good stuff, too:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2061973,00.asp

Zune: iPod Killer or Half-Baked Flop?

I'm not sure whose "fault" it is, but the Zune has been all over the Web for the past several weeks.

As soon as it became known that Microsoft was preparing its own portable media device and service, the phrase "iPod Killer" was attached to it.

Whatever Microsoft's intentions, it was going toe-to-toe with a well-established product that absolutely dominates the portable media category.

In one fell swoop, Microsoft is now expected to somehow de-throne the iPod. It has to offer all the iPod's features and more, at the same or lower price. It needs to look better, work better, offer better content, shine your shoes, walk your dog, and prepare your taxes.

Anything else is an abject failure. Or is it?

The early reviews of the 30GB Zune ($250 list) are mixed. Some people are happy with the device; others can only find every way in which it does not measure up to that ubiquitous media player that has taken the place of personal computers as Apple's flagship product.

When I got one, I was immediately bombarded by everyone who saw it with some rather specific questions.

Frankly, many of the initial reviews seem almost rushed, as if no more than a day was spent with the device before coming to a grand conclusion. Certainly they didn't answer many of my questions.

So this Zune review is going to be a little different. I'm going to go point by point, marking down the things I have found and learned in my days of Zune usage.

With any luck, this mother of all Zune reviews will answer all your questions.

Ultimately, I'm going to try to answer the Big Ones: Can Zune eventually challenge iPod's dominance? Does it really matter? Is it worth getting now, or taking a wait-and-see approach?

Read the rest, it's definitely the most unbiased and indepth Zune review out there at the moment.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2061973,00.asp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×