Ninja Dodo Posted February 5, 2005 ... or stifled creativity. I just read this in Develop magazine... It's up to developers to solve this delicate equation, Ancel says, by fitting their innovative work within the constraints of the demands of the wider public. "We learnt a lot of things with Beyond Good & Evil with regards to this, but that doesn't mean we'll stop thinking along those lines. It's just that we'll now consider this issue far more seriously than previously, by saying, 'Okay, let's innovate, but how do we do it with a mainstream project?'"Is that not a frustrating situation for a creator? "Yes that's true," admits the father of Rayman. "But I think you have to accept that aspect. You have to accept that you can't do the game that you would love to make. From the moment you want to develop for thousands or millions of people, you are obliged to think of them and not only of you." Dammit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peb Posted February 5, 2005 Man, what a depressing comment. Screw those thousands or millions of people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simon Posted February 5, 2005 Interesting contrast with Schafer's recent 'go crazy, take risks' DICE perspective, which I think is much more positive and preferable. There have been many games that have been hugely original and enjoyable and not done that well, but just shrugging and allowing that to stifle creativity is worsening things. To be fair, Ancel is talking about a balance, but it's dangerously close to a mentality of trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which tends to create suckiness. Developers need to be creative, and gamers who don't know what they want yet will latch onto it, hopefully. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Dodo Posted February 5, 2005 I guess the difference here is mainly that Tim Schafer owns his own studio and can do whatever the hell he wants. Let's just all hope that Psychonauts is going to sell loads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHoatzin Posted February 5, 2005 I can totally see where Ancel is coming from... that however won't stop me from writing a really mean slew of hate mail. No, but really... Even Penny Arcade readers are morons. What hope is there for all the other gamers out there? Do people who buy games on the large really want to appreciate the wonderfulness of BG&E and like original games? I heard somewhere someone explaining how they refused to play BG&E because you had to talk to a pig... So be it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manny_c44 Posted February 5, 2005 Yeah, its pretty sad when the consumer community becomes dilute enough to drown creativity; it's an unsurprising trend that appears in all media, but it is almost always overcome by some creative individual once in a while. It would be nieve to think that game developers could even produce innovative titles faster than the the current rate though. So all in all its not so bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted February 5, 2005 I actually don't know why BG&E didn't appeal to more people, because - I guess aside from the pig thing, which I'd never heard before - the game isn't terribly obscure or arthouse or a personal statement. I mean what was there in BG&E that someone would say 'no, that's not for me'? I honestly can't figure it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHoatzin Posted February 5, 2005 Hey, actually one of these guys at school had a problem with the game because of the pig also. I told him it was good and he was like, "I read a bunch of good things about it, but then you talk to a pig... and uh, I don't know..."Why the hell is everyone so stuck on the pig? I believe the pig story comes from you, ma man. I just didn't know where I got it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Dodo Posted February 5, 2005 Long term, I think our only hope is indie development. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manny_c44 Posted February 5, 2005 Yeah we're fucked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Posted February 5, 2005 I was completely floored when I was told to my face by a game industry professional (who will remain nameless...) that "Beyond Good and Evil was kind of fun, but let's face it, who wants to play a slut and a pig?" I didn't really know how to respond. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Posted February 5, 2005 I actually don't know why BG&E didn't appeal to more people, because - I guess aside from the pig thing, which I'd never heard before - the game isn't terribly obscure or arthouse or a personal statement. I mean what was there in BG&E that someone would say 'no, that's not for me'? I honestly can't figure it out. Maybe its fairly slow pace and lack of specific genre categorization? I don't really know, I'm just guessing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHoatzin Posted February 5, 2005 But the game is a pixar movie you can control! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted February 5, 2005 How on earth is Jade a slut? I think the game can be pretty easily defined as a platformer, in the same sense that the Jak and Ratchet & Clank games are platformers. Although I guess those aren't really what come to mind when you think platformer. I don't know. BG&E is similar to the Jak series in a lot of ways (except BG&E is good) and those games did pretty well. Argh. Who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted February 5, 2005 Also: I was completely floored when I was told to my face by a game industry professional (who will remain nameless...) that "Beyond Good and Evil was kind of fun, but let's face it, who wants to play a slut and a pig?" Yes, the last thing anyone wants to see in a video game are questionably dressed, promiscuous women. That idea isn't going anywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wormsie Posted February 5, 2005 And the pig is the absolute COOL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redwall Posted February 5, 2005 How on earth is Jade a slut? Some of the dialogue with the orphans at the lighthouse suggets that Jade brings a lot of strange guys home (when you first go back to the lighthouse with HH, I think) but it was pretty obscure and vague IIRC, so who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted February 5, 2005 Huh. I missed that completely. It'd be kind of strange if that was the one thing Nameless Industry Guy used to develop his apparent dislike of Jade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Dodo Posted February 5, 2005 What are his thoughts on Lara Croft, I wonder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pj- Posted February 6, 2005 How on earth is Jade a slut? Green lipstick is slutty...... BG&E is similar to the Jak series in a lot of ways (except BG&E is good) and those games did pretty well. Argh. Who knows. The jak series is very good, what are you talking about? As a series, yes, they have quite a number of things in common, but that's mainly because jak2 was a complete departure from the first, but as individual games, they don't really share much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted February 6, 2005 I was just kidding about them not being good. Sort of. I've only played the first two, and I don't love them, but I think they're okay. Jak II got on my nerves a lot for much the same reasons that Prince of Persia: Warrior Within did: forced edginess, emphasis on violence. Though I didn't like Jak & Daxter nearly as much as Sands of Time, the drastic change in the atmosphere of Jak II was jarring and at times, embarrassing. Though I actually think they pulled the 'dark' stuff off better than Warrior Within, as Naughty Dog had the good sense to (occasionally) make fun of it. But the plot and characters in Jak II I found incredibly annoying. It was quite astonishing that Daxter went from the most annoying character in the first game to the least annoying in the second. Actually, gameplay wise, I think BG&E and Jak II have a lot in common - there's the big gameworld hub for you to freely drive around in, an emphasis on story and characters, vehicles, minigames and a ton of useless shit to collect. While the stuff I just listed is hardly exclusive to those two games, I think they do play very similar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lechimp Posted February 6, 2005 Well since I really didn't get the game until it became very cheap, I guess I should explain why. Sure there were a fair amount of ads, but the ads didn't do anything to make the game stand out for me. When I saw screenshots of the game, it actually just looked like a generic platformer with some crappy stealth parts thrown in. Of course I was really wrong, but I think the ads needed to show things in the game that showed that it was different from all the games out there. So Ubisoft had a hard time marketing the game, but I think it also sold poorly because it came out at a bad time. It came out around christmas when tons of other games came out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoccerDude28 Posted February 6, 2005 I was completely floored when I was told to my face by a game industry professional (who will remain nameless...) that "Beyond Good and Evil was kind of fun, but let's face it, who wants to play a slut and a pig?"I didn't really know how to respond. Jade is a slut? Oh my god... Then what does that make of the POP cast? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted February 6, 2005 Mature and adult, duh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoccerDude28 Posted February 6, 2005 I actually first saw BG&E when I installed the Sand of Time.. It was in the installation screens, and I wasn't impressed at all. I only bought the game, after hearing about it in the forums, and reading game magazine reviews. But games like Ratchet and clank or Jak, I got sick of seeing ads for them on national TV. So I do think ubisoft did a crappy job in selling this game as its "franchise" platformer like Sony does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
