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Rob Zacny

Episode 419: Europa Universalis IV in 2018

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Three Moves Ahead 419:

Three Moves Ahead 419


Europa Universalis IV in 2018
This week we return to an old friend, a stalwart companion, an evergreen delight that has been with us for years and years and years and years. Europa Universalis IV received several updates and expansions in 2017, and while the game has not changed radically it has matured like a fine wine that was traded from the Bordeaux trade node to Ragusa. In a 3MA first, T.J. Hafer is at the helm to host the show along with Rowan Kaiser and Gamers with Jobs' Sean Sands. Prepare yourself with a deep dive of finer details of EUIV as it exists in 2018.

Europa Universalis

 

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The reason why China fell flat was because there's nobody on the Paradox team with any interest in it. You can tell how much effort that went into Japan and the middle east because there are people who are intimately invested into those regions working on their content. 

 

But there's no way China can be depicted realistically in EU4 anyways, since it's a game all about expansion, which Ming did very little historically. In EU4 wealth and land = power. So you are by default the strongest power in the game as Ming even if that isn't historically accurate. EU4 

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This was interesting. I might have liked a bit about how to get into EU4 in 2018, but maybe that’s harder to answer when your playtime has four figures. :) Any forum suggestions?

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Ottomans or Castille are good first play through countries - provide a relatively easy ride of things. But its the sort of game where you just keep learning. With only 235 hours under my belt I feel like I'm only just becoming intermediate player.

 

What I would like to see in EUIV is to have more built in mechanisms that generate instability and break up large empires over time. Its just weird that you can have continent spanning empires that are fundamentally stable for centuries with no/low amounts of autonomy in regions.

 

I haven't played in a while, need to get the latest expansions. Got side tracked by Hearts of Iron IV and now the Witcher 3...

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Good podcast. It has a lot of phrases like "feature creep". But not enough.

 

I'd argue that CK2 was made obsolete - it has UI of a grand strategy game, not of RPG, and expansions did little to fix it (made intrigue window better and added more in terms of focuses). It always needed more universal systems providing flavor like Stellaris - something more than 3 types of appeals in the end of diplomatic messages. It needed a better economy/reations model for you to do something apart from waging war. Meanwhile EU4 on release was great. It had a unifying vision and potential for growth. It was full of working systems explaining the world. Yes, parts of the world were extremely boring to play - but they still worked in a common framework and they still had mechanical support. National Ideas are good example: on release few countries had them but they clearly where made as a mean to add uniqueness to each country, even if they're not that noticeable from the outside.

 

But then their DLC model had got in a way. This elegant twist of mechanics did not get deeper, it got disjointed mechanics slapped on top of it. Things like parliaments, estates and factions of all sorts look like they're duplicates of the same idea but they don't interact at all. Few big systems that actually affect gameplay on a big scale (like development and institutions) are spread across patches  and DLC making DLC-less version a monster and also preventing devs from properly enhance or fix those systems. So it's sort of good that they switched to regional features. More focused approach allows such small changes (and they can't do other kind of changes properly with current DLC model) to sort of work - after all, those 3 government buttons are kinda simplified estates, they even share the name sometimes (see Russian Boyars). Still even that is... ugly. It feels like feature creep in its ugliest form. Those government systems are not expanding existing mechanics, they exist outside of said mechanics, that's like spaghetti code. When they added National Ideas to every country it was an expansion; those government types and other features feel like you've missed some sort of patch that implemented global government system and this DLC is only supposed to make it more interesting for specific countries.

 

Sad!

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2000 hours is utterly insane, I think my most played game is Dynasty Tactics 2 with about 300!

 

Really interesting to hear you chaps talk about this game especially as I will probably never play it.

 

I do wonder with this type of game if snowing you under with features is necessarily a good thing, I've spent over 100 pleasant hours in CK.1  but never managed to get into CK.2 despite multiple tries mainly because it seems like it is just the same game with loads of extraneous stuff piled on top!

 

Quote

What I would like to see in EUIV is to have more built in mechanisms that generate instability and break up large empires over time. Its just weird that you can have continent spanning empires that are fundamentally stable for centuries with no/low amounts of autonomy in regions.

 

I think a lot of games could do with something like this, rather that boiling down to biggest is best.

 

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Tributaries: their main deal is that now, you can play with some country around Ming, without the constant fear of Ming deciding to ruin your ironman game at any moment. Which does not mean that you are safe, because what Tributaries really do is protect you from Ming but not from other people around.

 

States: yeah, they aren´t perfect, but I don´t mind them much, it easy to keep them in check most of time and don´t think much about.

 

Institutions/Eras: I really like those, this one made much easier and less annoying to play with countries outside Europa and still have a chance without having the deal with the older confusing westernization mechanics. Which mean that the game can generate those emergent gameplay moments in a much richer way (specially for Ai controlled countries) . I have games where "Granada and friends"(AI) hold off Spain, Mali (AI) manages to beat up France and Spain, Poland and Lithuania win against Russia and many more, since the Ai can´t just steamroll as in the past, but things aren´t so easy either (research penality still a thing you have do deal).

 

The New "Here is what going on in this place" Screen: I love this, much like with was said, it give you a much better idea of what is going on.

 

Cradle of Civilization: One thing I really like is the new events, they make really cool playing with those countries.

 

 

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Kind of a weird podcast this one. There wasn't much enthusiasm on display, or at least, not enough to make me think I should give this game a go. Any sense of WHY you are still playing this game after all those hours was lost between the gripes.  I got the impression that you all played the game as that's the game you played.

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