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Erkki

I don't see what everyone sees in that movie ...

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On 29/11/2018 at 8:27 AM, Ben X said:

 

The sequel can go in this thread too. Outside of about ten minutes of legit good body swap comedy, this whole movie is overworked and empty. (And I actually don't think the original is that sugary; it has a feeling of real danger and mischief, and Williams' character is dealing with PTSD, racial guilt and father issues - but y'know, for kids.)

 

I actually didn't mind it, except for Kevin Hart's character who is just flat. I thought Jack Black was adorable, because they could have just had his character whine and moan about being a fat guy for the whole film but instead he does it for about 10 minutes and then just rolls with it.

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Ok, this isn't about a movie, but what's so great about Mad Men? Was it just that at the time it didn't seem as awful with the treatment of women and bombarding us with stereotyped macho behaviour of men or does it turn that whole thing around at some point? I've only seen 2 episodes, but if that casual sexism isn't turned around quickly (like in the next 2 episodes) then I don't see the point of just keeping watching this ... whatever it is.

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2 hours ago, Erkki said:

Ok, this isn't about a movie, but what's so great about Mad Men? Was it just that at the time it didn't seem as awful with the treatment of women and bombarding us with stereotyped macho behaviour of men or does it turn that whole thing around at some point? I've only seen 2 episodes, but if that casual sexism isn't turned around quickly (like in the next 2 episodes) then I don't see the point of just keeping watching this ... whatever it is.

 

It's got high production values and it's largely a low stakes interpersonal drama. If you're hoping or expecting characters to say "gee isn't it sexist how we acted in the 60s" you are never going to get that. It's well acted and the show depicts some despicable behavior sometimes without having anyone in universe chastise them. 

 

I think it was also very popular as a watch party show and people liked having it as an event to watch something together. If you don't like it, I don't think you're missing out on much of you quit it. It was important culturally and I think it's a pretty good show, but I don't begrudge anyone deciding they don't like it, especially if they give it a fair shake.

P. S. Joan, Peggy, & Sally are the best characters on that show. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 12:34 PM, jennegatron said:

It's got high production values and it's largely a low stakes interpersonal drama. If you're hoping or expecting characters to say "gee isn't it sexist how we acted in the 60s" you are never going to get that. It's well acted and the show depicts some despicable behavior sometimes without having anyone in universe chastise them. 

 

I think it was also very popular as a watch party show and people liked having it as an event to watch something together. If you don't like it, I don't think you're missing out on much of you quit it. It was important culturally and I think it's a pretty good show, but I don't begrudge anyone deciding they don't like it, especially if they give it a fair shake.

P. S. Joan, Peggy, & Sally are the best characters on that show. 

 

I agree with everything here. There's no character that functions as a moral center in Mad Men (or, rather, the moral center shifts from episode to episode as different characters have bad and good moments). I enjoy that the show is full of characters who are complicated and well-realized but deeply flawed and heavily implicated by the times in which they live, but I can understand someone else not valuing that too much. What condemnations of bigoted or regressive behavior do happen in Mad Men often come from people who are definitely not above it all in any way shape or form, like when world-class fink Pete Campbell blasts Harry Crane for being annoyed by all the coverage of MLK's death (offending Bert Cooper in the process).

 

I do think that Mad Men doesn't endorse alcoholism and sexism any more than The Sopranos endorses being a mobster and killing people, but it's very unblinking in how it depicts the biases and failings of mid-century America as simple facts of life back then and expects you to care about characters up to their necks in them (even if, deep down, they fundamentally suck, like Don Draper does).

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