Mentalgongfu

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Posts posted by Mentalgongfu

  2. Posted

    @Owl

     

    I noticed the lamp too. If I recall correctly, there was also a miniature one on a table in the same style. 

     

    I am not yet on board with Diane having anything to do with manufactured Dougie. It is weird for her to admit to having the Janey E/Dougie connection, though we know she is communicating with someone about directing the FBI to Las Vegas, but I can't buy she was in on Dougie's creation without seeing something more explicit about how she ties into all that has been going on. Her continued refusal to talk about the last time she saw Cooper seems important, though the why and how are still unclear.

     

    My feeling is Sarah's apparent possession/habitation is relatively new. It's possible it was ongoing when Laura and Maddie were alive, but I think it might be related to the return of the woodsmen ("men are coming") or the Experiment/Mother coming through the box in New York.

  3. Posted

    2 minutes ago, MissPrim said:

    This could be way off, but I think the place where Andy sat with the Fireman was the White Lodge because right before he was sent there, Andy was kneeling down beside the blind woman holding her hand - an act of love.

    Another thing that points to the white lodge is the fact that afterwards, when he's carrying the blind woman, he seems to know exactly what has to be done, just like Major Briggs. 

     

    I'm confused about who James is now, though. He was wearing a deputy's uniform, but there's been no mention of him being part of the Sheriff's office, so is that a disguise of some sort? He mentioned something about making a "delivery."

     

    Also, I nearly lit a bonfire and danced around it when Chad got arrested, it was so satisfying. The part with him and the bleeding-mouth-guy (is that supposed to be Billy?) making noises at each other reminded me of when Bobby and Mike bark at James in the jail cells in one of the first episodes in season one.

     

     

    James is definitely not part of the sheriff's office - I'm sure we would have seen that before. My impression is that he and his Hulk-handed friend are sort of security guards/maintenance staff at The Great Northern. Otherwise, I agree with your take on the rest.

  4. Posted

    11 minutes ago, That Gum You Like said:

    Anyone else think that Lynch was tying Andy's sandwich order ("who ordered 'just cheese?'") to the fact that he was selected to meet the Fireman?

     

    I wondered if it had any significance or was just a comment on Andy being a little "different." 

    I'm inclined to believe the former, but if it did have deeper meaning, perhaps it is because he is not eating meat?

    I haven't noticed anything else in the series relating to vegetarianism, but it would be in line with the Buddhist principle of "ahimsa," non-violence to all beings.

  5. Posted

    I am so glad we got the Andy scene. Especially him jumping into confident action after his return from the Other Place. My love for his character was re-kindled in just those few minutes. Until this point, he has had very little to do in The Return that had clear relevance to the overall story. The only thing I can think of he has done prior to this episode, aside from odd and wonderful scenes with Lucy and Wally Brando, was his child-like observation when searching for info related to Hawk's heritage that he was looking for "an Indian," which might have seemed dumb at the time, but (as is often the case) turned out to be exactly what was called for after an image of a Native American led Hawk to find the missing diary pages. He and Lucy both seem to have innocent, savant-like abilities that come into play once in a blue moon, so maybe that's why the Trumans have kept them around the sheriff's office all these long years.

  7. Posted

    I remember the guys saying something about being out of town so the podcast would be delayed, but no Part 14 thread either?

     

    And there's soooo much to talk about....

     

    Andy's Big Fireman Adventure

    Sarah Palmer and the Westworld Neck Biter

    Gordon Cole's Magical Mystery Tour

    Chad Is Still An Asshole

    Billy Is Bleeding

    Tina is Not a Coma-Dream

    ????? Gets A Name

     

    And with all these developments, of course, the recurring complaint that nothing is happening (or not enough, or not fast enough, or not GoT enough....)

     

  8. Posted

    32 minutes ago, Digger said:

    I don't think this comparison works.  I have not watched Better Call Saul, but what you describe is not evident in Twin Peaks this season.  Saying viewers want Dougie to be bad ass Coop might be true for some, but saying there has been character development in any of his scenes, or the rude French woman scene, or the various interludes at the Bang Bang, or delivering and painting shovels or the long time spans of people staring dead eyed into the distance don't seem to bear that out.  I am not saying there need to be explosions and murder each episode, but motion in some way, in character in plot, in world.  My point in the original post is that things are drawn out to no end but to mess with the viewers.  Plotlines are ignored for weeks at a time and then resolved off screen, and instead of seeing that (Andy's investigation, the hit and run) we get it 3 episodes later in an expository scene (Hastings interview, Truman and Horne).  It seems like bad story telling and a disdain for its viewers.  

     

     

    Sure, there isn't any character development in those particular scenes you cite. And clearly that's not what those scenes are there for.... But we have seen development of characters like Janey-E, Candie, Gordon, Albert, Tammy, and more. There is motion in the plot and in the world in each part, even if some of it is extremely subtle or merely filling backstory or creating tone.

     

    It's fine if you don't like the presentation, but I take issue with the assertion that "things are drawn out to no end but to mess with the viewers." I don't think it's fair to ascribe that motive to Lynch and Frost. The idea that because a viewer doesn't like something, Lynch must be trolling, showing disdain or deliberately messing with said viewer - to me that smacks of arrogance and a preference to believe that your dissatisfaction is the specific intent of the artist rather than simply your own personal reaction. Considering it bad story telling is legitimate, even though I disagree personally, but I am tired of this idea that because some of the audience dislikes the way The Return is going, it must be because Lynch wants them to dislike it, and that he just enjoys screwing with people for 18 vieweing hours. There are much easier ways to troll the public for him than investing 3 years of his life and all the associated effort to make the series happen.

  9. Posted

    2 hours ago, BonusWavePilot said:

     

    Well, I suppose a lot of those adjectives are 'in the eye of the beholder' type things, but I would say that the Dougie storyline is interesting because of the way the people around him react.  Probably he'll transform back into Goodcoop at some point towards the end of the run, but what is intriguing is how people simultaneously are prepared to help Dougie do the most basic things, and still somehow see him as a hero, or a competent worker.  To have long conversations with him despite his contribution being entirely echolalia.  It raises questions about whether original-seasons' Cooper was effective as an investigator because of his intelligence, methods and awareness or if he was always just a lucky magic guy and would have been just as successful regardless of what methods he employed. 

     

    This is emphasised through dramatic irony since the audience knows the 'old Cooper' and sees how far from that point Dougie is, but the other characters interacting with Dougie see nothing wrong.

     

    As for important...  I think that is harder to call until we've seen the whole run, because we don't yet know which elements will be vital to the climactic scenes.  I have no problem with this, as the alternative is that we *do* know which bits are important, which would mean that the progress from this point would be as predictable as lesser TV.

    On 'innovative' - how many other shows have you seen with a central character like Dougie?  We can argue whether or not it works effectively, but I don't think you can really claim that it is ordinary.

    Really I suppose it comes down to what you mean by 'moves very far'.  Does it have to be straight-up plot to qualify?  Like, 'character X goes and does impactful thing Y'?  What about finding out more about character X after she has already done thing Y which makes you realise that the meaning of thing Y was much different to your expectation?  Does that count as movement?  What about something weird or abstract that isn't clear in itself, but has such a clearly menacing tone that it affects the scenes that follow? 

     

    As for 'funny', that is very subjective, but I've found the Dougie slapstick stuff to be pretty high-quality overall really: the flopping sex arms, walking into the door etc.


    I get your frustration in terms of 'stuff actually happening', but I think tone and character are important too, and I love how unexpected this series has been.  Even having been prepared by the episodes before, this show so often surprises me when most TV is so formulaic.  (Not that there aren't a lot of shows that I enjoy, but it is very often possible to make a mostly accurate prediction on the entire course of an episode based only on the first few minutes).

    Thank you. Your view mirrors my own.

     

    I am a big fan of Better Call Saul (which was unexpected, as I was very skeptical when it was initially proposed as a half-hour comedy), but it has faced many of the same complaints, especially in its most recent season. I don't think there are a ton of apt conparisons between BCS and Twin Peaks, but pacing and tone is the big one.

     

    With BCS, viewers complained that 'nothing happened' in particular episodes, when in fact there were major character developments, reveals of the past that set things in a new light, beautiful moments that lent to the depth and understanding of the story and its characters - but because there was little action and no big, game-changing cliffhanger episodes, many people felt like it was not moving. Viewers considered the slower, deeper story development to be more place-setting than actual plot growth.

     

    I think The Return suffers from the same type of complaint. People who were anxious for Dougie to become badass old Coop in episode 5 are even more frustrated and anxious now, just as people anxious for Jimmy McGill to become badass Saul Goodman were even more anxious and frustrated to see his change by the time the end of season 3 rolled around. To put it another way, Breaking Bad is to Better Call Saul as ABC's original Twin Peaks is to Showtime's Twin Peaks: The Return.

     

    And I have found much love for Dougie and The Return in general since I stopped expecting Coop's return to his old self, or anything else to be what it used to be, which, when you think about it, would be the ultimate fan-service cop out anyway. 

     

    But hey, Wally Brando's monologue about his shadow has been my favorite literal laugh out loud moment of The Return so far, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I just don't see how you can not laugh at the deadpan delivery of a bit like, "My shadow is always with me. Sometimes ahead, sometimes behind... Sometimes to the left, sometimes to the right. Except on cloudy days. Or at night."

     

    As Zoidberg would say, "Now that's humors!"

     

     

  10. Posted

    1 hour ago, marblize said:

     

    The Dougie, FBI, and Evil Cooper threads are all pretty explicitly moving forward. Evil Cooper and the FBI are pretty obviously working towards a goal while Dougie-Cooper is bumbling forward, amassing a following, attracting attention of increasing relevance. Sure, the Fusco's tossed the key to his identity in the trash, but I think that was just a nod to the fact that Dougie-Cooper is on a journey and there isn't a secret unlock code (yet).

     I disagreed with the podcast's take on the Fusco trash moment. Of course they disregarded the info and threw it away. From their perspective, there's no way he could be a former FBI agent recently escaped from Federal prison when he has been in Vegas, having his car blown up and being interviewed by the L.V.P.D. during the same time period. I realize time passage is questionable in The Return, but Dougie has clearly been in Vegas during the entire time Bad Coop was locked up and escaping, and he has numerous alibis to prove it. There is no sane reason to believe Dougie is Cooper unless you already accept the idea of dopplegangers and strange Blue Rose happenings. That's why no one will figure it out unless it is Cole and the gang.

  11. Posted

    1 hour ago, pyide said:

    Probably not worth mentioning, but I liked how there was yet another obvious tease to Cooper possibly being affected in some way after being exposed to his past life favorites.

     

    First he had the coffee.

    Then it was the cherry pie.

    Then the coffee and pie combo in this episode. Which I remember seeing a bunch of people say would be the turning point after what they did separately, he simply needed to have them at the same time!

     

    I'm sure none of us really expected anything to happen after all those fake outs and more from before, but it totally played into what people were hoping for yet again, I got a real kick out of that. And how it all came together after basically a double fake out from his missing cup of coffee, was looking like he'd only end up with just the pie again. But then he takes Anthony's coffee to go with the slice of pie while Anthony was dumping the poisoned cup in the toilet. And of course, nothing. But still some quality enjoyment of coffee and pie.

     

    The new hope people are hanging onto is that it has to be coffee plus one of Norma's real Double R pies and not the franchise ones using sub-par ingredients. I don't think we're getting old Coop back at all, and if so, not till the final episode. Then again, i hear Part 14 is a real humdinger from those who saw the German Sky TV mistake that ran in place of 13, so who knows?. If I saw a link I don't think I could help myself from scratching that itch, but it doesn't seem to have made its way to the web, surprisingly. 

  12. Posted

    1 hour ago, Maple Syrup and Ham said:

    Also, any theories on wherwe the Dutchman's is? It's clearly a code as Ray has looked for it and said it's not a real place...

    ;

    How's this for an out there theory...

     

    After a quick googe of the Dutchman I found this song:

     

    "The Dutchman" is a song written by Michael Peter Smith in 1968 and popularized by Steve Goodman. At the time Smith wrote the song, he had never visited the Netherlands.

    The song is about an elderly couple living in Amsterdam, Margaret and the title character. The unnamed Dutchman is senile, and Margaret cares for him with a sadness over what has happened to him over the years. It is a story of unconditional love.

     

    So, we know a Margaret, Log Lady. Coud Philip Jefferies be linked to the log?!?!

    Interesting thought.

    Someone at Mild Fuzz pointed out that when Ray says the Dutchman's isn't a real place,  DoppleCooper shoots him and says he knows what it is, rather than where it is. Might just be parsing words, but we'll see.

  13. Posted

    Fair enough @unimural

     

    I get the complaint about female characters in The Return; I just don't share the perspective. Everything has worked for me so far, and I haven't been interpreting the women as shrews (not that you said that, but others have). I actually think an argument could be made the female characters in this revival have more depth and variety than in the original run, despite having less screen time. As far as Audrey specifically - I loved her character in the first two seasons, but I didn't expect to see her back in the same way in The Return, at least not after we got a ways into it and she hadn't yet appeared. I believe that's a major theme running through this extended movie - aging, change, the inability to go back to the old days. Bobby Briggs seems to be one of the few characters who has changed for the better, while others like Norma and Shelly are basically the same they always have been, still making the same mistakes. Audrey appears to have changed dramatically, and by appearances not for the better, though we still don't really know what's going on with her even after Part 13.

  15. Posted

    I believe I've mentioned this before, but the more I think about the Project Blue Book/UFO connection to Blue Rose cases in Twin Peaks, the more I think there is a lot of inspiration drawn from Jaques Vallee and his take on the UFO phenomenon as terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial.

     

    In this old interview he mentions early on the implications of the atom bomb, the manipulation of time and space, witness responses that mirror those of characters like Sarah Palmer, energy/electricity, the speeding up of healing processes, and other ideas that relate to the mythology surrounding Twin Peaks. 

     

    I'm biased, but I really recommend checking it out.

     

    Jaques Vallee - Thinking Allowed

  17. Posted

    Random speculation:

     

    With regard to Richard Horne's parentage, it seems the discussion everywhere has centered on Audrey and Mr. C, and occasionally the long-shots Donna or Johnny Horne, but most have dismissed the latter two and concluded Mr. C must be the father to explain Richard's evil behavior.

     

    But there's no reason Richard necessarily has to be the spawn of evil Cooper/Bob to be an evil man. And there are two other Hornes not usually considered - Ben and Jerry. Either could have fathered a child with a One-Eyed Jack's girl or some other woman, and we know Ben was having affairs. Granted, his presentation as Richard's grandfather would argue against him being the father, but he wouldn't be the first case of hiding a father's identity and allowing the child to be raised on a lie or omission. And it would explain his concern for Richard's actions and taking responsibility for Miriam's medical bills while Richard's presumed parents remain entirely absent from the scene.

     

    (On that note, the reference from Truman about the boys' parents would seem to argue against Mr. C being the father in the common theory, unless of course Audrey as mom hid the fact he was, since Truman is certainly not referring to DoppleCooper when he mentions parents).

     

    I don't really think the Ben as father theory is likely, but there's exactly as much direct evidence for that scenario in the show to date as there is for an Audrey/Mr. C coupling, which is to say, there's really no direct evidence for any scenario so far. And given TP's  tendency to surprise, I wouldn't write it off until there's something more solid to go on. 

  19. Posted

    14 minutes ago, unimural said:

    I thought for a good while that the Audrey/Charlie bit was happening on a stage, that it was a play performed by the Twin Peaks Drama Group. I did like it, though. I am unhappy that the re-introduction of Audrey was yet another female character acting unreasonably, agitated or even irrationally. Still, I liked the performances. Not sure if any of it means anything. Perhaps that was all the Audrey we will get.

     

    At this point though, I don't really have any expectations of The Return. Well, I expect that most things will not be wrapped up, or explained. I do wish that the last scene of the series will be of Jerry Horne, still lost in the woods. His is a sad fate, but I can't help but to be pleased and amused by all of his scenes. I no longer associate the wilderness of Twin Peaks with menace, foreboding or Lodge/Owl Cave nonsense. It is the native habitat of a stoner loosing his mind, goofily.

     

    Re: Audrey - Agitated? Sure. But, taking the scene at face value and ignoring the many theories about soap operas, comas/dream states, re-enactment therapy and the like, it would seem her agitation is quite reasonable and rational. Her friend and apparent lover has been missing for 2 days now, and she can't get her husband to help her go look for him. This is coming from someone whom we know was once abducted and nearly killed, in addition to the trauma of the bank explosion and resulting coma. He is not only disinterested, but seems to actively oppose her in this effort. We don't know why she can't go searching on her own, but she seems unable to do so (maybe she doesn't drive?). He then reveals relevant information about the theft of a truck that he has withheld until this point, and when he finally deigns to call this Tina as part of his stalling efforts, he refuses to share the apparently interesting information he gleaned in the phone call. And above all this behavior is some nebulous contract. You are certainly allowed to maintain your own interpretation, but to me, calling this an example of an unreasonable/irrational character is just reaching for something to criticize that fits this now well-established narrative about The Return and its female characters ( a narrative that I, frankly, just don't see). Given how little information we have to place the scene in any context, I think drawing that conclusion is both premature and undeserved.

  20. Posted

    I think a lot of viewers have romanticized what they want the original Twin Peaks to have been rather than what it was. Memory works that way. For me, this episode was as OG Twin Peaks as it gets; the only exception being the pacing, which is no longer dictated by the requirements of a prime-time slot on one of the 3 major networks and instead can take advantage of the luxuries afforded by Showtime and the era of streaming TV. Even back then, the show liked to take its time. Laura's murder wasn't solved until into the second season, and it wasn't yet fully solved at that point, since the mystery of Bob and the Lodges remained.

     

    Immediately upon seeing Audrey, I realized that no matter what scene Lynch and Frost gave us, people would be disappointed. They want to see the Audrey of the past, the young Audrey, dancing to a Badalamenti jazz number back in the good old days. That past is gone, and time has taken its toll. I, for one, was intrigued by her scene, which raises innumerable questions about what happened to land her in this apparently loveless and contractual obligation of a marriage. Of course it was confusing, as it was meant to be. But it did a wonderful job creating tension and raising questions, expanding the mystery.

     

    The Sarah Palmer scenes were disturbingly wonderful. The Truman/Horne scene was well done, and the transfer of the key will certainly advance the story when Hawk learns of it. Perhaps we'll see the Log Lady again. I am admittedly getting impatient for Truman, Hawk and Bobby to make their way to the coordinates, but I have to hope it will be worth the wait. And the FBI has officially brought Preston into the fold of Blue Rose and made it clear they are keeping Diane close in order to discover her secrets. Not my favorite episode of The Return, but I have nothing to complain about after my first viewing.

  21. Posted

    1 hour ago, UnpopularTrousers said:

    I believe it was officially confirmed that the subtitles were incorrect.

     

    Correct. He said Billy. And subtitles are often wrong, not just on this show. I didn't think that needed to be pointed out, but many reviewers have gone off the deep end about the non-existent "Bing" as a result of that incorrect transcription.  I wouldn't base anything important on them, especially when they conflict with your own eyes and ears.

  22. Posted

    4 hours ago, Professor Video Games said:

    You guys talk about the future Missing Pieces for Dougie's Mitchum Brothers Gym Set conversation, but the scene I want to see is Dougie somehow ordering a cherry pie in a giant box. Did he have a Mr Jackpot moment where there was a glowing light over the cherry pie or did he just Magoo his way towards it (and the huge box) with his boss and some poor barista. I have to know!

     

    Mullins was following Dougie into the shop . I just assumed he saw Dougie staring at the cherry pie and the conversation went similar to what @Urthman said.

     

    Mullins: Are you thinking we should buy them that pie?

    Dougie: Buy them that pie.

    Mullins: That's a great idea Dougie. You're a class act!

  24. Posted

    Very minor note: I think the editing in the first scene of the kids playing catch is quite deliberate. The two older boys are playing with each other and the youngest is basically just tagging along. The older boys throw to each other, but every once in a while they lob one to the little guy so he can feel included. He's too young to be relevant to their practice, which is why we barely see him at first, but they're good brothers, so they don't leave him out entirely. Perhaps I'm giving too much credit, but I got that sense immediately, conveying a family dynamic in just a matter of seconds.