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Everything posted by Mentalgongfu

  1. I'm game, but I can't help cribbing a little from Cameron's ideas at O&A for the first three below, since I heard them at the same time I learned the titles. The rest are my thoughts. See You On the Other Side - probably a retrospective on those actors who died just before, during or shortly after filming Do Not Pick Up Hitchhikers - something related to the Woodsmen Man with Gray Elevated Hair - about Lynch as director or his character A Pot of Boiling Oil - either something with the Lodges and oil smells from original seasons, or something playing on Coop dropping guns in the oil fryer in the finale Bloody Finger - something to do with the guy in the jail cell whose face was falling off, or maybe something with the rings, i.e. lodge ring, wedding ring in Brigg's stomach Two Blue Balls - no idea. About Dougie's first bathroom visit or first sexual experience upon his re-emergence? Tell it, Martin - no idea. Someone named Martin who works on the show giving us some perspective on their job? Obviously, a few of these ideas are a bit on the nose, and more will be needed to fill out 25ish minutes in each segment. But I'll claim a win if 4 of 6 connect in any way to my guesses
  2. Interesting. The other henchman is Dickie Bennett (Jeremy Davies) from Justified. Since folks these days like to imagine TV world crossovers, like Malcom in the Middle/Breaking Bad, it's fun to think about a universe in which Raylan Givens and Dale Cooper cross paths through Dickie, or a Boyd Crowder/Mr. C team-up. Maybe there is a portal to the Lodge in the deep dark hills of eastern Kentucky....
  3. Yeah, wrap-up thread or finale thread. Either can serve as a catch-all for re-watch thoughts, I imgaine.
  4. Maybe this is me being naive, but why the Annie-barf? I don't get why her character is so disliked in season 2 by so many Peaks fans. Is it just because she's a foil to Audrey, whom everyone wanted to Cooper to end up with?
  5. I assume the ambiguity must be part of why Lynch loves it. It can be read as "Fire, walk with me," and/or "Fire-walk, with me."
  6. When I let myself think about it, the lack of resolution on Hawk's map and the statement you quote, is extremely frustrating, especially given the Log Lady's nearly last words to him about "the one under the moon on Blue Pine mountain." We never see anything even remotely relating to this, unless it is when they find Naido, and that is in daylight, not under the moon, so I don't think it makes sense, unless that too is a metaphor. ... It does occur to me, @Jake and @Chris, given the discussion about Bob's "catch phrase," it can take on new meanings. I had always thought it was "One chance out," but it seems "one chants out" is more likely to be the original intention. I haven't looked for specific script punctuation, which could alter the whole slightly, but as it is, that gives us: Through the darkness of future past The magician longs to see One chants out between two worlds Fire walk with me Given that we have the line, and the episode title, "Laura is The One," and we have "chants" as a verb, is Laura the One who chants out between two worlds? As in she is somehow the bridge between the Dale Cooper and Dougie Coop we know, and the "Richard" who meets "Carrie Page" in the sudden turn of the re_Turn. The idea of Laura as the connecting piece seems kind of obvious, since that is the only consistency in the end of the season, but I had never connected it with Bob's poem before. Is she the one asking/ telling us to Fire Walk with her? I'm not one for big, elaborate theories, just connections. But when I thought of the poem in terms of "chants" instead of "chance," Laura as The One immediately jumped out at me. For what it's worth. One chants out between two worlds. Laura Palmer chants out between two worlds. Carrie Page chants out between two worlds. Cooper travels from one world to another, changing name yet still finding her, through Judy's diner, because the one still chants out between the two worlds. Don't know if this idea holds to close scrutiny, but anyhow, that's my thought of the day,
  7. Thank you so much @Jake and @Chris for the podcast all season long, and specifically for pointing out in the finale recap that we already knew how Annie was. I don't know if your cribbed from my comments here or just got there on your own, but I am taking credit in my own mind. Regardless, it was so gratifying to hear someone else say it. I listened to a lot of TP content all over the place as The Return went on, but you guys were my favorite at the start and have remained so. Even when you have a "removing his wound" moment from time to time, you are still far above the rest of the pack. I didn't always agree with your take, but I never found myself yelling at your podcast, unlike many of the others I have checked out. Since I only found this place after The Return started, now I have to go back and listen to the original Rewatch of the first two seasons until you get around to doing an actual rewatch of Season 3.
  8. Those would be some damn big capacitors.
  9. Posted with love: An interesting discussion on the controversial ending of The Return that includes some well thought-out criticism of the dropped storylines and the surprising turn in Part 18. I haven't gotten through it all yet, but it immediately resonates with some of the critiques expressed by many fans.
  10. From what little we see, new Dougie seems about equal to sleeping Dougie Coop in his level of interaction, which seemed to be the happiest time in the life of Janey E and Sonny Jim. And I also assume he's an improvement over philandering Dougie prior to being replaced by Dougie Coop. So not as great as living with Dale himself, but still a nice ending.
  11. @Don't Go There I agree with some of your observations on lack of conclusion to these stories and abandoned plotlines, but not all of them. I even quoted your original list in an earlier post. I would say that all of them are ambiguities. Whether or not they are all abandoned plots or "bad storytelling" is more debatable. These are my thoughts on the things with which I disagree: Andy and the redneck guy is just a mystery as far as I'm concerned, and one to which we can surmise a conclusion without many assumptions. Richard took his truck. Richard killed someone with his truck. The guy tells Andy he can't talk where they are and agrees to meet Andy later on a deserted road. He never shows. Ominous shot of the trailer. Plenty of clues. I conclude Richard killed redneck truck guy off screen to keep him from talking to the police. Just as he tried to kill Miriam on screen for the same reason. "How's Annie?" was never as big a deal as it has been made out to be. We see her come out of the lodge with Bad Coop at the end of Season 2. Before the infamous mirror scene, Bad Coop asks original Truman and the Doc "How's Annie?" for the first time, and Truman says "She's going to be just fine. She's over at the hospital." The infamous scene with Cooper repeating the question after smashing his head on the mirror is just Bob/Bad Coop getting a laugh at his ability to fake compassion. We already know how Annie is, at least physically. She's just fine. I agree her absence in The Return is conspicuous and unfortunate. Doc Hayward mentions Audrey but not Annie. Norma never mentions her. Frost apparently disavowed her existence in one of his books. But her physical condition after the last 2 episodes of Season 2 was never in question based on what is shown on screen; it just took on mythical proportions over the years since it was the last scene in the show. Donna's absence is, to me, more noticeable. Ray's mysterious phone calls are explained by him being an FBI informant, talking to Cole. This requires a few more assumptions than with redneck guy, but it is perfectly plausible based on the info we have. I could quibble that we do learn a little about Billy, though it's true we never meet him, as far as we know. And what we do learn is all in Audrey scenes or Roadhouse scenes, and the reality of those scenes is being rightfully questioned. I do find some of the lack of resolution frustrating, and I wonder how much was intended originally versus what might have been cut in favor of other scenes or just abandoned for some unknown reason.
  12. Interesting observation. You are aware, aren't you, that that is also the title of a novel and a movie staring Jodie Foster and Martin Sheen? Considering the character name "Gordon Cole" is directly lifted from Sunset Boulevard, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a deliberate reference to the film. I haven't seen The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane, but from the wikipedia description it does seem to relate thematically in that it has uncomfortable sexuality, death, murder, a magician, conspiracy, suicide, potassium cyanide, a body in the cellar and a coma. It is going on my watch list, as is Sunset Boulevard (which I have seen, but I was around 12 years old).
  13. I believe it was the same sound, which is also one of the sounds the Fireman played to Cooper on his old phonograph in Part I when he was still in the Lodge and tells him to "listen to the sounds."
  14. @Nordelnob I'd agree the tone was empty, down or depressing; I just can't agree that it was supposed to leave me feeling the same way, because it didn't exactly do that. It mostly left me feeling ponderous. @UnpopularTrousers Personally, I'm trying not to dissect the intent beyond any meaning I can grasp for myself. But I am admittedly a little annoyed at the idea that has been spread throughout the season by some posters, not necessarily those at this site, that The Return was just an intentional troll. And that might come across in some of my posts. I think it's the only interpretation I would bother to argue against. It bothers me because it assumes both the intent of the artist and that any viewer who liked it is just a "fanboy," a mark who will buy whatever Lynch is selling, regardless of its value, and implies a superiority on the part of the viewer who is dissatisfied compared to someone whose reaction is more positive. The choice need not be binary, and shouldn't be. I loved The Return, but I won't know how I feel about the ending for a while. I loved the sweeping scene. I loved Wally Brando, and I came to love Dougie. But that's me. Being bored or upset, or feeling there was wasted time is just as valid a reaction, even though it's not mine. Thinking all 18 hours was just meant as a big middle finger to the audience is probably a valid reaction too, but it's one that I disagree with strongly enough to argue about.
  15. Is it? Is the perception of the viewer = to the intent of the artist? If someone, like myself, was not left feeling empty, does that mean I just missed the intent and couldn't grasp that I was supposed to be left feeling empty? You are speaking as if your own personal reaction must be what Lynch wanted. That's not necessarily the case, and it devalues the reaction of anyone else to claim that must have been the intent. I don't feel empty or sour. I do have a lot of unanswered questions, but I knew no matter what happened in the final two hours this was something that would not be easily digested or dissected afterward. I'm still not sure where I'll land in my final evaluation, but Game of Thrones pissed me off a lot more this summer than Twin Peaks did, and I had a lot more enjoyment with the latter than the former. Also, people keep talking about the season 2 ending as an example of David Lynch leaving strings hanging and giving a middle finger to the audience, which seems to forget that he had originally expected a third season of the show, and failing that, to have a series of movies to elaborate on the ideas rather than just Fire Walk With Me. edit: Thanks @UnpopularTrousers
  16. @Jake For all I know it may be "chants" instead of "chance." Either could make sense, but it does change the meaning slightly.
  17. I didn't have captioning on, but I heard this is how it was captioned. I always imagined it as "One chance out..." and have seen it in print that way in the past. Is there any way to confirm which line it is supposed to be, or whether it was changed at some point in the evolution of Twin Peaks?
  18. This is perhaps a little off topic, but of the all the people who are feeling jaded at the finale, Julee Cruise is with you. Apparently she was none too happy about the ending and/or the limited role of her song in the finale and her general treatment by Lynch and Co. She was posting about it last night on Facebook, and the Obnoxious and Anonymous guys were reading some of it on their live stream. There are some quotes in a short article over at alternative nation.
  19. One person's "exposition dump" is another's off-screen back story. I find it interesting that Lynch can be simultaneously criticized for being inscrutable and for this "exposition dumping," a phrase I am coming to despise. I'm still ambivalent about the finale, but never in the series did I feel the creators were spitting in my face or giving me a middle finger. It's certainly true lots of threads were started that were never concluded, but I don't equate that with those scenes serving no purpose. As far as them never going anywhere interesting, that's in the eye of the beholder as well. Jerry in the woods was one of my favorite diversions of the story, and I'm baffled that so many people seem utterly confused about his mini-drama. I also didn't feel that the conclusion undid anything about the season or the series as a whole, unless you mean Laura's body on the beach disappearing. Even there, lots of room for debate remains on what that meant when combined with that which follows. It should go without saying it's perfectly fine to love it or hate it, but I do get a little peevish about attributing motives to the creator such as claiming it was a joke to Lynch and he was showing contempt for the viewer. On the contrary, I think he may have put too much faith in the viewer judging from some reactions. In any case - he's not dead, nor is Frost. I don't know how reclusive either is from the public, but it's certainly possible to ask them if it was all a giant troll on TP fans with the aid of a large Showtime budget. That interpretation is convenient for those who are not satisified, since it makes them the smart marks while everyone else is being played. I mean, if it was a giant troll, I just got Rickrolled Lynch-style and not only did I not notice, I enjoyed the ride.
  20. Pretty comprehensive list of loose threads, and I quoted in its entirety in case anyone missed it a few pages back. I wasn't bothere by the Judy thing, or the mystery of the Fireman and his orb, but otherwise I agree. It's kind of aggravating to me to see it all laid out. I never expected answers to everything. I didn't expect a clean ending and a nice wrap-up, but things like the Hawk/Blue Pine Mountain story just disappearing entirely, likewise Sarah Palmer's monster, is beyond frustrating to me considering we had 2 hours for Lynch to do something, anything, with all these pieces of the world he spent 16 hours constructing for us previously.
  21. Cooper looked very much like Mr. C during the sex scene with Diane. I think this was intentional, as I have seen I'm not the only one in the audience who made the connection. No idea what it means yet, but kind of goes along with the black hat idea. What was with the other Diane (or Linda?) at the hotel? It was great to see Freddy kick some ass with the green glove and meet his destiny; but everything in the sheriff's office after Mr. C got shot seemed like a kind of paint-by-numbers, "let's get this over quickly" kind of thing just so we could have whatever else we had after Dale entering the room at the Great Northern. The whole of part 18 felt like the first time I watched Lost Highway, when I had no idea what was going on. I imagine further watches will feel a lot like my last viewing of Lost Highway, when I still had no idea what was going on, but saw a lot more connections. I do wish we had gotten 5-10 minutes to confirm what happened with Becky, to add something to Audrey's story and to re-visit Red the drug dealer and Shelly. We did at least get the reference to the story of the little girl who lived down the lane, which seemingly ties in somehow to Audrey and the rest of the story and is perhaps a key of sorts. I haven't checked if the dialogue is an exact match, but the evolution of the arm asking about this definitely mirrors one of the Audrey scenes. Eh - enough. Time to sleep on it and see what dreams may come.
  22. I certainly didn't expect everything to wrap up in a neat little bow, but I wasn't quite prepared for what I got. When I saw the sheriff's department scene wrapping up still early on in part 17, I knew the story had to takes us somewhere else. And that it surely did. It will take me some time to digest and figure out what the hell I just saw, let alone whether or not I liked it. My only other comment right now is childish, but I feel compelled to say it, as if I have been taken over by some evil spirit that has inhabited my body. To everyone who said I was crazy when I claimed Bob was still inside Mr. C, I must borrow a phrase from my buddy Ricky over at the Sunnyvale Trailer Park: I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but you know what, atodaso. I fucking atodaso.
  23. A tulpa of Audrey would look like Audrey. If it looked like Diane and seemed to have all of Diane's memories, it couldn't be based on someone else, as far as I understand the mythology of the show. Dopplegangers, however, might be interchangeable with the term tulpa based on what we've seen. When Albert tells Tammy about the first Blue Rose case, he talks about two women who look exactly the same, only one of them disappears (presumably into the lodge) when she dies. It is Tammy who uses the term tulpa, but that is effectively what we have seen with Mr. C and Cooper - a look alike who commits evil acts under the guise of being the original. It does get murky, though, since we don't know how Dougie would fit into the pantheon beyond the fact that he was "manufactured for a purpose," like the fake Diane. I won't hurt my brain thinking about it too much; but I do sense the introduction of the word "tulpa," as poorly-defined as it is, has caused sections of the internet to run wild with theories that allow any character we have met to be imaginary/and or someone else. Most of the theories based around tulpa themes strike me as complete nonsense in that there are zero indications in the actual things shown on screen to lend creedence to them. It is Twin Peaks and Lynch, so nothing is impossible, but I feel like the word being used without a clear definition in the TP world has made it a lot more difficult to talk about the things we can infer from what is on screen in favor of innumerable what-if scenarios. I guess we'll know in a few hours all we're going to know, but I doubt any desire for clarity will be satisifed.
  24. @Nordelnob I don't think it's at all beyond the scope of the show (especially considering FWWM) to think that Bob encouraged Leland's dark impulses to come out, but didn't have to create them in the first place. Leland wouldn't have done those things without Bob, but the desires already existed within him. There's nothing redundant about that. If it was only Bob and Leland really had no agency, it's basically just a modified version of "The Devil made me do it." The fact that Leland let Bob in, even though he was just a child, also indicates some level of agency when compared to Laura. Flawed as she was as a human being, she chose to die rather than to let Bob take her over. And even if we accept that it was all Bob, not Leland (even though I don't agree); Leland was never portrayed as a good person. He was a lawyer in league with Ben and Jerry, who are basically scumbags through most of the original run. On the other hand, in The Return, Bob isn't inhabiting Dale Cooper like he inhabited Leland - he's inhabiting Mr. C., which is Dale's shadow-self from the Black Lodge (according to Hawk's description of 'the dweller on the threshold' in Season 2). The actual Dale Cooper isn't corrupted and wasn't made to do anything; rather, his shadow-self is teaming with Bob to do evil things while Bob feeds on the fear and pain. Like Digger said, Bob inside Mr. C is a very different thing than Bob inside a normal person. It's evil squared. Bob doesn't have to make Mr. C do anything.