The Ultimate Playthrough, Metal Gears!?

[syntheticgerbil]

Hmmm, well both of you guys make it seem like it's way more founded in some kind of historical precedent, just needing a knowledge of Japanese language and culture, so I like the way that all sounds. It would make sense. As a plain translation it just takes me off guard, but I think it's just a matter of what Kojima wants even if it's lost on U.S. audiences. Like Volgin, a Russian, just likes to utter, "kuwabara, kuwabara."

 

Like I was thinking the other night, my friend and I had rescued all of the voice actors in Peacewalker for the trophy, but besides them having the title "voice actor" or "actress" under their randomized animal name, it makes no sense to U.S. audiences. I wonder why they didn't just want to draw three portraits of some of the U.S. voice actors? I guess this is just to say it all makes sense as Kojima productions doesn't seem to care to localize any of these games.

[J.C.]

There's also the thing about the kana for those syllables spelling Snake when tilted. Basically, it all comes down to Kojima being a nut.

[pyeixe]

I finished 4 at the weekend. It was my first time playing it, and I have to say, even though it was pretty much all fan service. What a cool game, there were some fantastic moments. Peace Walker next I guess, although I am a bit wary about how it plays though. MGS 4 was probably the first time the controls felt right.

[Atlantic]

While we're still on MGS2 chat: there is an extensive analytical essay about the game by James Howell, titled Driving Off the Map. He tried to get at what MSG2 is "about," why the switch from Snake to Raiden is interesting, and the arc that Raiden takes from a playable character that imitates Snake into something much more, and much more important. (He also did a

that clarifies some his points in the essay).

 

The main problem with trying to figure this out, and why it took so long, is that MGS2 was kind of unfinished. There are a lot of codec calls that were supposed to be full cutscenes, but instead its voice+text+near-static faces. I really like it though, probably because it never occurred to me to be infatuated with Snake after MGS1.

[Thrik]

Oh man, I actually replayed MGS2 the other week and the amount of codec conversation really is off the charts. I'd forgotten but now that you point out they were supposed to be cutscenes, it very much makes sense.

 

Weirdly, MGS4 — which I'm replaying now — swings the other way. It features very little codec conversation, you only get two ongoing contacts throughout the whole game, and one of those is pretty much just a tutorial. Even with Otacon, he has very little to say about the environment and nothing to say about your equipment and weapons. I really liked the stacks of optional codec conversation in the previous games, so it does feel like something is missing.

 

I guess that MGS5 will take the lack of codec randomness even further, but going off of Ground Zeroes will probably have more contextual stuff than MGS4. Also, I expect that there will be lots of tapes that I can listen to in-game so that'll be nice. They worked really well in Peace Walker, even though you had to sit in a menu to listen to them.

[syntheticgerbil]

There is some contextual Peacewalker codecs in game but it doesn't often seem to work, definitely not as contextual as previous games, since all long codec conversations are in a separate out of game menu, as you said. Some are funny easter eggs like if you point the camera at yourself while wearing no clothes and just mash the square button (assuming you mapped it for codecs).

[Griddlelol]

In a nice turn of events, Ground Zeroes (I hate that title) is free on PS+ in June. I was just about to buy that, and it'll probably spur me on to pick up MGS 2&3 which I've been waiting to go on sale. 

[Thrik]

It was excellent value for money even when I picked it up for like £6 over Easter, so getting it free should be wonderful. Of course, now that I've long since finished it I'm absolutely salivating for The Phantom Pain. I'm having to replay the older games just to quench my ravenous hunger for sweet, sweet Snake.

[pyeixe]

In a nice turn of events, Ground Zeroes (I hate that title) is free on PS+ in June. I was just about to buy that, and it'll probably spur me on to pick up MGS 2&3 which I've been waiting to go on sale.

I've bought it twice now, once for the Xbox 360 and once for the ps4 as I realised that you couldn't transfer the save cross platform. It was on sale 2? weeks ago, now it's free, ha.

[Thrik]

I can't take this any more.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/9/8750385/metal-gear-solid-5-the-phantom-pain-preview

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/05/14/metal-gear-solid-5-preview

Just started replaying MGS3 last night, after completing MGS2 and MGS4 in the couple of months prior. It's really great to be back to the sea of unnecessary codec dialogue after its dearth in MGS4.

[syntheticgerbil]

One thing that sucks is now that the series is pretty much over after this game, I'm left with the bad tone shift from MGS3 to 4 and 5. I feel like Peacewalker was very kin to MGS3

I'm also kind of sad there was never a game starring either Meryl or Liquid Snake. The latter was probably unrealistic, but I thought for the longest time a Meryl game had to come out though. Liquid Snake just makes me laugh. His portrayal as Cam Clarke is just hilarious and campy. I love it. I need to go back and watch the digital graphic novel stuff with the Legacy collection because they finally released a version with full English voice acting as opposed to the silence of the original PSP release.

[Griddlelol]

I picked up MGS2/3 on sale and tried out some MGS2 last night. 

 

FUCK, it's an absolute bitch to control! I had to stop, do a bunch of VR missions before it felt...adequate. The thing that bothers me the most, is that to grab a guard, you need to get up behind them, within range (and no button prompt appears to say if you are) - which is hard in some cases due to the isometric view, then you have to stop and grab them. Following that you have to spam square so the guard goes uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-snap. 

 

I thought MGS2 was a PS2 game?! Why does it control like ass? Why are the ridiculous neck breaking "uh" sounds still in there?

 

That said, despite throwing my vita at a cushion for 20 minutes learning how to play (because the guide it comes with is fucking useless), I kept picking it back up. It seems super fun.

[Thrik]

Yeah, it can be pretty damn jarring going back to earlier MGS games. You tend to forget how much difference the iterative refinements between each game make, so for example I remembered MGS3 as being extremely similar to MGS4 controls-wise (due to CQC being in both) but it's actually pretty janky in comparison. I get used to it pretty quickly though, because each game is generally so tightly designed around exactly how it controls.

 

One big tip I have for MGS2 is to use hold-ups. Equip a weapon — ideally your tranquiliser gun — and then once you've sneaked up behind an enemy hold down the 'raise weapon' button. This will cause the enemy to hold up their hands and remain like that for quite some time, allowing you to either shoot them or choke them. I find this much better because the area of effect is much more generous than when choking, and also you don't have to stand still first.

[Griddlelol]

Yeah, it can be pretty damn jarring going back to earlier MGS games. You tend to forget how much difference the iterative refinements between each game make, so for example I remembered MGS3 as being extremely similar to MGS4 controls-wise (due to CQC being in both) but it's actually pretty janky in comparison. I get used to it pretty quickly though, because each game is generally so tightly designed around exactly how it controls.

 

One big tip I have for MGS2 is to use hold-ups. Equip a weapon — ideally your tranquiliser gun — and then once you've sneaked up behind an enemy hold down the 'raise weapon' button. This will cause the enemy to hold up their hands and remain like that for quite some time, allowing you to either shoot them or choke them. I find this much better because the area of effect is much more generous than when choking, and also you don't have to stand still first.

 

Wow, good advice, I didn't even know that was a thing. How do you then proceed to choke them? Since square is choke, but also shoot. 

[Thrik]

Just let go of the fire button, as the enemy will remain in that position for at least a few seconds. I believe this mechanic was introduced in MGS2.

 

Ah, thought I'd tweeted a video of this move. I did: https://twitter.com/thrik/status/591353546395779072

 

Also:

 

[Griddlelol]

I will try it tonight! 

[syntheticgerbil]

God I've been playing so much Peacewalker for the last year, I nearly completely forgot how stupidly streamlined they made the hold up process. It's pretty much completely unrealistic in that game because they automatically get on the ground every time within seconds of holding them up. They also never get back up again, so you can just run through levels aiming  a gun at someone's back and moving on while they slowly get on the ground, never getting caught. There is absolutely no reason to ever continue pointing your gun at an enemy in Peacewalker after the initial hold up.

Check out that part with the tank. It's incredibly silly and game breaking. But you've pretty much gotta do that maneuver if you want S Ranks.

 

Also the games before had variation on how daring certain guards might be when holding them up, some only pausing for a brief moment or so if you did not knock them out or kill them quickly enough.

[Atlantic]

I will try it tonight! 

 

ALSO!

 

If you point a gun at a guard's head or his balls (I think they're all men...), they will shake and drop a dog tag. Sometimes they will resist, and you will need to shoot them. If you have a handgun, you can shoot them in the hand or the leg. If you point your gun back at their head they will drop the tag. Every soldier in the game has a unique name, and every difficulty setting has a different set of tags. I wouldn't worry about trying to collect them on your first run through.

 

The point is that there are a lot of ways to mess with the guards that are not always apparent. If you leave a BOOK out for a guard (it's supposed to be porn), they will see it, read it, and then cluck like a chicken.

 

RE: CONTROLS IN MGS2/3

 

There are some weird controls in MGS2 and MGS3, but I think I'm just used to them. Figuring out how to peek around a corner, aim down the sights, take a shot, and then return to the corner requires the holding a lot of different buttons that makes it completely useless. Also, discovering that you can do pull-ups is weird. That doing 100 levels up your stamina, and another 100 levels it up again is weird. That there is a codec call that happens because you're wasting time is magical.

 

While it can be difficult the first time through getting close to guards and so on, on repeat playthroughs it becomes amazingly easy. Because all of the guards follow a very set patrol route and all of the camera angles do not change, the points at which you might get hung up on during your first time will become smoothed over. If you skip the cutscenes and know where you're going, it's very easy to get through the entire game in under two hours.

 

I have a lot of fondness for MGS2 despite all of the weird things about it. 

 

In MGS3, I still get confused about some the CQC controls. The last time I tried to get a no kill hard mode run going I grabbed the first guard instead of slamming him into the ground. And then proceeded to slit his throat. 

 

MGS3 is a masterpiece though. 

[Mangela Lansbury]

In MGS3, I still get confused about some the CQC controls. The last time I tried to get a no kill hard mode run going I grabbed the first guard instead of slamming him into the ground. And then proceeded to slit his throat.

MGS3 is a masterpiece though.

I have never gotten past the tutorials in MGS3. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to make the guy do things, even with instructions right there.

My last try was on the Vita, and I just couldn't figure out how the medical system worked so I couldn't progress past it.

[Atlantic]

I have never gotten past the tutorials in MGS3. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to make the guy do things, even with instructions right there.

My last try was on the Vita, and I just couldn't figure out how the medical system worked so I couldn't progress past it.

 

I have played through MGS3 half a dozen times and I still get tripped up on the controls sometimes. I think I might have grandfathered in controlswise due to MGS2. There are a lot of similarities, but all of the new systems on top means that there are a lot more things to considered every step of the way.

 

There's a reason MGS4 plays more like a third person shooter than its predecessors.

[Griddlelol]

I'm really not enjoying mgs2. The camera and controls just make the whole thing awkward, like I'm battling with the game. Tack on the fact I have no idea what I'm meant to be doing and I doubt I'll see this game through.

Oh and why isn't there a way to restart after I get caught? Instead I have to wait 3 minutes for the guards to kill me or close the game completely.

Kinda annoyed, because despite the control problems with mgs1, I did just fine. There was a clear goal, and I got lost occasionally, but at least I knew where I was meant to be going.

[Reyturner]

I'm fairly certain the harder difficulties give you an instant game over when you're seen.

[Thrik]

In MGS2 there was a bit of a gameplay shift that encouraged fighting your way out of alerts, as opposed to just giving up or doing a runner. It wasn't very good though, the areas were too confined for it. Fortunately you don't last long on hard.

They should have saved it for MGS3, which has larger areas and more tools for dealing with enemies (including hand-to-hand combat). MGS4 and 5 are even better, and the 'incapacitate then run' action sequences that erupt from alerts can be absolutely fantastic in the more open environments.

[Smart Jason]

I actually disagree, fighting your way out is not a viable option upon getting caught in MGS2, which is deliberate to the design. Ostensibly the thing to do is avoid the search crew and switch to another area, where the alert phase will be lower. Waiting out the entire caution countdown is a last resort. It was Snake Eater that introduced the concept of gritting your teeth and claiming an area by having guards eventually exhaust their number, which was pretty revolutionary to the series.

 

What part of the game are you on that you have no idea what you're supposed to be doing? All those codec contacts are no help?

[Thrik]

You pretty much have no choice though, in most of MGS2's areas you'll find the attack team coming from your only way out and they're on you so quickly there's no avoiding them. Not that I'm saying you should try to take them all out because it's virtually impossible, but you can generally use grenades and a few shots to stall them long enough to get away — in MGS1 you might as well not bother, I don't think they ever stop coming.

As you say, in MGS3 it becomes more about actually taking an area than escaping. MGS2 is an awkward step there that provides some cool action mechanics that get little chance to shine.