The Dresden Files

[SecretAsianMan]

Not bothering with spoiler tags since these aren't about Skin Game specifically.

 

The first few books are kinda weak but they give a lot of background info.  You still get brief character introductions in each book when a recurring character returns, but it's minimal information.  I would say probably skip the first 2 then come back to them later if you're really interested in the backstory.

[Bjorn]

Finally got it yesterday!  Yah!  He mostly just did a Q&A again, which was as hit and miss as any fan Q&A ever is.  Overall quite enjoyable though.

 

So like 10 pages into the book, he's already being weird about the gays.

 

Mab has just told him that he has 3 days to live, and that she's blackmailing him with his own death to force him to do a job he otherwise wouldn't do. Only this magic earring can keep him functioning to get the job done.

When she goes to pierce his ear with it, he suddenly stops her. NOT THE RIGHT EAR!  No, no, no.  Why?  Well, it's a human thing.  Because only the gays wear earrings in their right ears. Sure, he might be dying, he might be the servant of a crazy evil winter queen. But he'll be damned if someone might think he's one of the gays for the 3 whole days he has to wear that earring.

I literally haven't heard about the earring thing since the early 90s when I was in high school. A quick Google search makes it sound like this as a symbol went out the window over a decade ago and no one has worried about which ear you get pierced for years, unless that someone is a guy who's terrified of being mistaken for gay. It was weird and completely unnecessary, unless Butcher is setting Harry up to be a closet case. And it continues the weird attitude that Dresden (and I'm increasingly thinking Butcher) has about gay men.

 

I wished I would have read that part before the Q&A started, as I would have asked him why Dresden is sooo terrified of anyone thinking he might be gay.  With gay rights and marriage steamrolling through the country, things like that are rapidly becoming anachronisms. 

[SecretAsianMan]

Mab has just told him that he has 3 days to live, and that she's blackmailing him with his own death to force him to do a job he otherwise wouldn't do. Only this magic earring can keep him functioning to get the job done.

When she goes to pierce his ear with it, he suddenly stops her. NOT THE RIGHT EAR!  No, no, no.  Why?  Well, it's a human thing.  Because only the gays wear earrings in their right ears. Sure, he might be dying, he might be the servant of a crazy evil winter queen. But he'll be damned if someone might think he's one of the gays for the 3 whole days he has to wear that earring.

I literally haven't heard about the earring thing since the early 90s when I was in high school. A quick Google search makes it sound like this as a symbol went out the window over a decade ago and no one has worried about which ear you get pierced for years, unless that someone is a guy who's terrified of being mistaken for gay. It was weird and completely unnecessary, unless Butcher is setting Harry up to be a closet case. And it continues the weird attitude that Dresden (and I'm increasingly thinking Butcher) has about gay men.

 

I had no idea what was up with that and I didn't bother trying to figure it out.

[Bjorn]

I had no idea what was up with that and I didn't bother trying to figure it out.

 

I never got any piercings, but a bunch of my friends in high school did and it was always a big deal that you had to make sure you got the left one pierced!  Cause otherwise everyone would think you're gay, which in Western Kansas was actually a problem that could have resulted in a severe ass kicking.   And that might be one of the reasons this shit bugs me.  It was a joke for most kids in high school, but in hindsight having learned that a couple of my classmates were gay and terrified of what would happen to them if they came out, these kinds of things just aren't that funny to me.  The whole earring thing was as much a reminder to closet cases that they couldn't, under any circumstances, safely come out as it was a community indicator.  It just depended on where you lived. 

 

I posted over in the official Dresden forums about this, as I didn't see any threads about it.  And predictably, people are defending it as being a funny joke at best, or a silly throw away line at worst.  Of course a thread this morning about feminism and any female issues in Skin Game was locked over there, because the trolls were being trolls.  Because don't ban the shitheads, just close the thread and don't talk about serious things.  They did let it go on for quite awhile before they closed it though. 

[Twig]

Yeah the earring thing was a Thing when I was younger, too. I also haven't heard anyone reference it for a long, long time. Even back then (when I was admittedly sorta... not against, but definitely weirded out by homosexuality) I sort of assumed it was just a stupid thing stupid people say because they're stupid. I still to this day don't know if there was any credence to the idea.

I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, that's pretty sketch.

[SecretAsianMan]

If it was a joke, then I didn't find it funny because I didn't get it.  I figured it had to be some kind of reference to something otherwise why bother saying anything at all, but I just assumed it was a dumb thing and left it at that.  I suppose you could argue that it's a throw away line because I don't think it comes up again, at least in this context.  But it's a weird thing to call out in the first place.

[Bjorn]

Even back then (when I was admittedly sorta... not against, but definitely weirded out by homosexuality)

 

Yeah, I was super weird about male homosexuality when I was a teen and in my early 20s, which is not something I'm proud of.  My freshman year of college I skipped class on Pride day because it unnerved me so much.  Like a lot of people, I didn't chill out about it until meeting and becoming friends with a couple of gay guys, who just turned out to be pretty awesome people, not like anything I had been led to believe gay men would be when I was a kid and didn't fit any of the stereotypes (one of the guys was a college football player at a private Christian college...definitely not the typical stereotype).  I'm still super happy I met people like them who helped me get over the weird baggage I had from growing up in a small rural town. 

[Twig]

CONFESSIONS OF A STRAIGHT WHITE MALE

 

...

 

sorry it just struck me as funny (dunno if you're white, but I am)

[Bjorn]

CONFESSIONS OF A STRAIGHT WHITE MALE

 

...

 

sorry it just struck me as funny (dunno if you're white, but I am)

 

I'm pretty much as privileged as they come: straight, white, male from an educated middle class family. 

[Mangela Lansbury]

I never got any piercings, but a bunch of my friends in high school did and it was always a big deal that you had to make sure you got the left one pierced!  Cause otherwise everyone would think you're gay, which in Western Kansas was actually a problem that could have resulted in a severe ass kicking.   And that might be one of the reasons this shit bugs me.  It was a joke for most kids in high school, but in hindsight having learned that a couple of my classmates were gay and terrified of what would happen to them if they came out, these kinds of things just aren't that funny to me.  The whole earring thing was as much a reminder to closet cases that they couldn't, under any circumstances, safely come out as it was a community indicator.  It just depended on where you lived. 

 

I posted over in the official Dresden forums about this, as I didn't see any threads about it.  And predictably, people are defending it as being a funny joke at best, or a silly throw away line at worst.  Of course a thread this morning about feminism and any female issues in Skin Game was locked over there, because the trolls were being trolls.  Because don't ban the shitheads, just close the thread and don't talk about serious things.  They did let it go on for quite awhile before they closed it though. 

 

I'm too young to really remember when the earring thing mattered too much, but I remember the sing-songy phrase "Left is right and right is wrong" from the early/mid 90s.

 

I'd completely forgotten about that weird little interaction. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Bjorn]

My thread over at the official forums got locked, as it's considered a "Touchy Topic" and those aren't allowed in the Dresden forums.  Ah well, whatevs.

 

Anyways, had a movie night tonight, will hopefully get back to reading it tomorrow!

[Bjorn]

Almost done with it, just a few chapters left, but it'll have to wait for tomorrow.

 

Once I was past the awkwardness of the unneeded gay joke, it spun into exactly what I love about the Dresden Files, can't wait to see how it ends.

[Bjorn]

T-T-T-Triple Post! 

 

I finished it tonight.  It was, at this point, exactly what I expected out a Dresden book.  Plenty of fun action, suspense, some truly jaw dropping moments and dramatic relations, tinged with the same uncomfortable shit about women and sexuality that he seems completely incapable of avoiding. 

 

 

Given our recent discussions, chapter 14 was... interesting.  I really hope it goes somewhere otherwise it's just creepy.

 

What I'm hoping is that the whole Murphy sex dream is some product of the thing in his head or possibly the Mantle messing with him.  The Mantle seems less likely to me, but if the dream is never referenced again then I don't see the purpose of basically writing something that reads like a fanfic.

 

I don't know if this is getting nitpicky or not, but weirdly enough, the thing that set my teeth off with the dream was some of the phrasing in it. I recognize that it was id-Harry talking, but Dream-Murph basically says how Harry is a "good guy", a "good friend" and "hadn't gotten laid in a long time" (not exact quotes) as an explanation for wanting to jump his bones. Which is way to close to the logic that "nice guy friends" use to justify wanting sex from their lady friends. Isn't it more realistic to just say, "I'm attracted to you and have been for years."?

 

Spoilers for up to Chapter 23

Ok, I take back what I said about Chapter 14.  Chapter 23 was creepy.  A number of interesting revelations were made, notably the magical pseudo-offspring of Harry and Lash.  It kind of confirms what I suspected, although not quite in the form I expected.  But Harry being confronted directly by his sex drive telling him to jump in bed with any and every woman within arms reach was kinda gross.

 

Given that historically in fiction it's women who get forcibly impregnated, seeing it done to a man was at least refreshing in that Butcher didn't do it to one of his female characters. This is one of the plotlines that I'm super curious to see how it plays out in the next book, now that the new spirit of intellect is out in the world.

 

Chapter 32

Ok, I'm not too proud to admit that I teared up a bit when Harry spoke to his daughter.

 

Father/daughter stuff basically gets me to ball at the drop of a hat. So yeah.

 

I'm just going to hit the rest of the interesting topics individually:

 

Butters:

 

I totally agree that Batman Jedi Butters is badass, with Bob as sidekick (though that seems like a really, really dumb idea!).  I love seeing Bob set free to wreak havoc though.

 

Hannah:

 

Literally ready to throw the book out the fucking window when Butcher used gang-rape as a justification for her character arc. I'm thankful these forums are a place where I don't even have to justify why that's a problem.

Otherwise...I feel like she was a really missed opportunity and that in the end Butcher just tossed in everything and the kitchen sink to justify her turning evil. She goes from engaging, charismatic and intriguing to batshit crazy evil like someone threw the Bitch-Switch. And Lasciel, the great manipulator and seductress who we've never really got to see, was reduced to screaming about being the woman scorned. For Fucks Sake. Everything about her character felt rushed and forced after the reveal of Lasciel.

 

Harry's weird internal monologue about how she doesn't "love" magic, but he does, and that's why she can't beat him is really weird.  Harry had two super powerful mentors (Justin and Ebenezer) who coached him for years.  He's probably received some of the finest education one can receive about magic, partly from a man who owns the original Merlin's personal notes.  He possessed the most powerful spirit of intellect the world has ever known, who helped him continue his education into adulthood and refine his understanding of magic.  He's had thousands of hours of time to do nothing but contemplate magic and play with it.  While she's been bouncing all over the world just trying to survive for a couple of decades and not draw the attention of the White Council.  So no shit Sherlock, that she doesn't love the theory of magic like you do, nor have the breadth of knowledge.   But it's not like he did something super clever.  He diverted her attack into the roof, causing it to collapse.  Which is like Tom & Jerry level clever, but he spun it like it was something way more impressive than that. 

 

Nic and his dysfunctional family:

 

Tess was an absolute enigma. Her behavior bugged my wife to no end, feeling that it was just completely impenetrable. Was she protecting her daughter? Why was she back at Nic's side at the end? Did she have some other goal?

Deidre...that shit is problematic. It's the second time that a woman has been literally sacrificed by a man she loved to achieve his goal. Once was questionable, but doing it twice in one series? People might think you have some woman issues as an author. Doesn't matter if it's a villain doing it or not.

 

One thing I'll point out about that above spoiler is that I think Butcher has been trying to draw some clear parallels between the actions of various characters.  But that one...that's just not a good parallel to be pursuing. 

 

Sexual violence in general:

 

The whole Susan S&M scene...it was kind of the sexual assault version of slapping a hysterical woman. It's one I'm honestly hesitant to judge though. On first reading, I don't remember it bothering me, but I could see why it would bother someone.

The Captain Lucio stuff is way more disturbing, in that she was trapped in her own mind as her body had an ongoing sexual relationship with a man who she was not attracted to who was also her subordinate. It's a really fucked thing that Butcher uses as a plot device, and then pretty much doesn't pursue other than a casual mention of it a little later.

 

Murphy

 

Butcher better come up with something amazing to do with her next book. She's the only regular baddass mortal female in the series. And she has had more bad shit done to her than any other character, excepting Harry. She's been mentally and emotionally assaulted (raped in a way), severely fucking her up for awhile. She was demoted, then fired, taking away from her the one thing that she most valued in her life. She's got the personal insult of her ex-husband marrying her sister, and her family being jolly about it, isolating her from a normal support network when you've been traumatized by things like being raped by a ghost or fired. And now she's been permanently physically damaged (yet to see what the result of this is). Bad shit happens to everyone around Dresden, but the women who are interested romantically in him get it the worst. Most of them end up dead (up to 3 of them if you count Lash), and Murph has suffered more personal trauma than any of the male allies of Dresden. If you kill or cripple every single woman who has had a romantic relationship with your protagonist, you're doing it wrong.

 

Anna

 

Another wasted opportunity. I was kinda excited to see her show back up, but she didn't end up really doing anything besides opening the one door. She's a character that just wholeheartedly abused Harry's chauvinism and chivalry, which was kickass.  But none of that made a return.  The whole reason she signed on was to help get vengeance on Nic and his clan, but ultimately she doesn't get to contribute to that other than making sure the con goes off by doing her part. She's either a damsel or a non-factor outside of the safe cracking. This is one of the problems when you have an ensemble cast for a heist story, some people end up with the short end of the story. But given the setup in recruiting her, I expected something more with her before it was all said and done.  She's been demonstrated to be a smart and damned clever thief.  There was clearly something else she could have done, but no opportunity was setup for her.

 

Gender in general in Skin Game

 

Of the heroes:

 

Harry is his usual resourceful badass self. Michael gets to come out of retirement for a day and be a kickass badass. Even Butters and Bob get to get in on the badassery. Goodman Grey even got to display heroic badassery in the end.

Murphy breaks one of the swords and gets maybe-crippled (her reward for going toe-to-toe with Nic and winning). Anna I covered above. Charity gets kidnapped, from her own house, while holding a shotgun.

The men all got to play heroes and the women were either damseled or damaged.

 

So yeah, there's lots of bitching up there, but that's more interesting to me than a bunch of random praise.  Like I said, I liked the book and mostly had a lot of fun reading it.  And I'm still excited about the next one, but I'm more than a little concerned by what this one setup.

 

Oh, and on the next book, Butcher said what the title and general plot was at the Q&A.  Noting too revealing, but a good tease:

 

Peace Talks: Pretty much all of the significant supernatural powers meet in Chicago to discuss the aftermath of the destruction of the Red Court. What could go wrong? Harry's status as both the Winter Knight and a White Council member is supposed to play a major role, and answer the question of whether he can remain both.

[SecretAsianMan]

More stuff about women in this book

 

With the exception of Murphy and Deirdre, I feel like all the women in the book were basically unnecessary.  Any of them could have been replaced and Nic's 11 would probably have gone off the same.  Basically what Bjorn said about the role women played.

 

I honestly forgot who Anna was for a large portion of the book until I finally went back and looked her up.  That's mostly my fault for just not remembering but I got into the series pretty late and read a bunch of the first few books consecutively so a lot of the details are mixed together in my head.  Her role in the heist was pretty mundane compared to all the magic superpowers but I guess there was some precedence for bringing her back.  I do enjoy that she was the only one to actually come away with any loot, although logically she would be the only one since everyone else either died, got left behind, or didn't care about money in the first place.

 

Hannah just never sat well with me.  She reminded me a lot of Elaine, sans the history with Harry.  She was a literal smoldering temptress the entire time (that was even an excuse to MAKE HER TAKE HER CLOTHES OFF) which largely made her an uninteresting character to me.  Her whole appearance seemed forced to me, like Butcher tried way too hard to figure out a way to bring Lasciel back.  Despite that I do hope she returns because I would hate to have her introduced for no reason other than to be the sexy body for Lasciel and then get immediately crushed.

 

Deirdre's character arc I actually kinda liked.  She clearly knew what was going to happen and those quiet moments she spends talking to Harry did more for me than any of her previous appearances.  But her slave like devotion to Nic (coupled with the incest) did make me uncomfortable.  The one other interesting thing about her is that just before Nic kills her, he tells her that she'll be safe from the Enemy there.  That's a huge chunk of foreshadowing which I found very interesting.

 

Tessa is just crazy and I have no idea what's going on there.

 

Charity's part bugged me because I think she would know better.  She made armor for Michael, probably did a lot of stuff with the panic room, and she's not exactly a dainty flower.  As much as I enjoyed Butters in this book, Charity would kick the crap out of him if it came to it, yet Butters manages to do more than she does to protect her own children.

 

Murphy getting laid out just before the end was a big disappointment to me.  I really REALLY wanted to see her in action during the actual heist.  I do admit that I liked the way Michael was brought in and complexity he added as a very honest, devout man engaging in this very criminal activity (no matter how you look at it).  Also Uriel being really confused about everything human and just wanting to help.  But the idea of Murphy breaking the sword, or even worse, the repeated statements that she wasn't worthy of being a Knight really did not sit well with me.  Plus the fact that Murphy is probably the most capable mortal/non-magical combatant in the series and yet she loses a sword fight that fucking BUTTERS later wins.  God in this book doesn't seem to like women either.

 

As for the next book thing, all I can say is it's about time.  I was wondering when they were going to deal with all that.

[Bjorn]

On Charity:

 

I'm pretty sure that's the second time she's been kidnapped out of her own house. Which is just like, c'mon. She's a pretty tough lady.

 

On Deidre:

 

I can see how you could like the overall arc with her. Which is one of the frustrations for the Dresden Files. By and large, no one character decision feels wrong or out of place. They are usually narratively justified pretty well. But once you look at the complete picture, that's when the pattern emerges.

 

On Butters and Andi:

My wife and I were talking about Andi, werewolf and Butter's girlfriend. Where was she during all this? I don't think she's retired from the whole werewolf thing when its needed, she was in Ghost Story doing stuff. Butters is out tracking Denarians in an ice storm, and his conveniently wolfy gf doesn't tag along? Butters is helping defend the Carpenter house, but the experienced fighter in the relationship isn't helping defend their friends and allies? Is Butters keeping her in the dark about stuff? Is she choosing not to get involved?  Is there some other narrative reason for her not to be there, like she's back guarding Bob's skull while he's in spirit form?

 

Ultimately, I think it was just a narrative convenience for Butcher. This book was, in part, about Butters moment to shine. His badass Batman routine, his stepping up to confront Nic when everyone else was down. Having his combat experienced girlfriend with him during those moments would have complicated pulling that off.  But narratively, in order for that to happen, Andi is simply ignored and Murph has to be put out of commission.  I also happen to really like the Alphas and miss having them around occasionally.   

 

Positive thoughts and speculation!

 

I'm hoping this is the book that finishes the transition that started in Changes. The arc from Changes through Skin Game has been good for shaking up the comfortable pattern that every previous Dresden book followed. And I'm in the minority for actually really liking Ghost Story, for completely de-powering Harry and for having a whole bunch of Mortimer in it, who I like. But I'm also looking forward to getting back to things being a bit more settled down again. Harry having a place in Chicago and doing Chicago things. The whole thing of all his friends being terrified of Demonreach seems to point to it not being his permanent home, plus it will put a big strain on his ability to spend time with Maggie. Having his cat back. Doing experiments in a lab (which is hinted at with the knife at the end). Maybe having some normal ass interactions with all his old friends (which was nice to see with Michael).

I'm also hoping for a return of Cowl. Lots of people loved the Denarians as their favorite enemy, but I particularly like Cowl, in part because he feels much more like Harry's arch nemesis. Nic and company, while major baddies, are really more the main villain in the Knights' stories, and Harry just happens to be involved a lot.

So the Crown of Thorns was obvious, as was what was likely the Shroud. The plaque I'm assuming was the one that says, "The King of the Jews" or something that was hung above JC's head. The utensil...was used at the last supper? No guesses beyond that. The knife was ultimately Nic's goal, so it's got to be the most interesting of the four.

I've got a feeling that Ferrovax the dragon will be returning in the next book, given the peace talks. He gets a nod in the vault, and I've suspected for a lot of books that he's likely been active in the story, but with some other mantle or mask obscuring who he is.

[SecretAsianMan]

Man, you're right.  I totally forgot about Andi because she technically wasn't even in the book.  I always liked the Alphas too.  They're tough and loyal and I was really glad when Harry made the decision to stop keeping them in the dark about everything.  But it's also reflective of one thing I dislike about the Dresden Files, which is the sheer number of characters.  Having a lot of characters isn't necessarily a problem, but it forces you to either invent reasons to keep them out so the book doesn't get too crowded, or you have to do what Skin Game did and have a bunch of cameos and sideline some of them.  There have been plenty of situations in almost every book where I felt another character would have been useful to at least consult that seems to be strangely left out (such as Ivy, who I really hope comes back in the next book since she's basically a faction of her own).

 

Speaking of Ivy, (spoilers for Small Favor)

I really love her character because I find her concept interesting and her behavior amusing (like the way she renders official documents in crayon) but thinking back on our discussions about how women are handled, Small Favor is kind of messed up.  The Denarians capture and torture Ivy to get her to take up a coin, which, fine, I get it, that's their thing.  But she's an 11 year old girl in the hands of Fallen Angels.  When Harry finds her, she's floating naked in a ball with her head shaved and cuts and scars all over her.  I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that she was sexually assaulted.  And this is a girl who's supposed to be as strong as (or maybe stronger than) Queens of the Sidhe.

 

As for the items in the vault, I don't know enough about the Bible or Christian mythology to make any kind of educated guesses.  I'd also like to see Ferrovax return.  I'm curious about how dragons are portrayed in this series and to my knowledge only 2 have been mentioned (Ferrovax and the one that Michael rescued Charity from).  It was one of the few things I liked about the TV series where in one episode it's revealed that Ancient Mai is actually a renegade dragon.

[Mangela Lansbury]

So the Crown of Thorns was obvious, as was what was likely the Shroud. The plaque I'm assuming was the one that says, "The King of the Jews" or something that was hung above JC's head. The utensil...was used at the last supper? No guesses beyond that. The knife was ultimately Nic's goal, so it's got to be the most interesting of the four.

 

 

As for the items in the vault, I don't know enough about the Bible or Christian mythology to make any kind of educated guesses.

 

The crown of thorns and holy grail are obvious in the bunch.

 

The folded cloth is the shroud, the image of edessa, or any of a number of cloth artifacts from the crucifixion. Either it's got a dude's face imprinted on it or it doesn't, basically. The Image's legend is that it's basically the first icon, from what I can remember of my art history, so it's a possibility since it supposedly gave birth to an entire genre of art.

 

I would assume that the placard reads INRI (abbreviation of a Latin phrase meaning "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Judeans"), along with the Greek and Hebrew (I think?) abbreviations for same. If you look up renaissance paintings of the crucifixion, there will probably be something over Jesus' head that reads at least INRI. I don't really know its place in the actual Christian mythology or where it came from, just that it appears in a lot of depictions of the crucifixion. Just basically it's a placard with Jesus' name and title on it.

 

The knife I don't really even have a firm guess on. The only weapon I know of related to the crucifixion is the Lance of Longinus, which some jerk used to poke Jesus in the side to make sure he was dead. I guess it could be a fragment of that (the tips of some spears could be described as having leaf-shaped blades, if you're feeling up for a stretch). That or something last supper related -- the knife Jesus used in the last supper or maybe that weird knife held by a maybe disembodied hand, maybe one of the disciple's hands in the da Vinci painting. Beats me, really.

 

But my knowledge of the crucifixion comes from art history, not theology, so who knows how accurate my guesses are.

[Bjorn]

The crown of thorns and holy grail are obvious in the bunch.

 

The folded cloth is the shroud, the image of edessa, or any of a number of cloth artifacts from the crucifixion. Either it's got a dude's face imprinted on it or it doesn't, basically. The Image's legend is that it's basically the first icon, from what I can remember of my art history, so it's a possibility since it supposedly gave birth to an entire genre of art.

 

I would assume that the placard reads INRI (abbreviation of a Latin phrase meaning "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Judeans"), along with the Greek and Hebrew (I think?) abbreviations for same. If you look up renaissance paintings of the crucifixion, there will probably be something over Jesus' head that reads at least INRI. I don't really know its place in the actual Christian mythology or where it came from, just that it appears in a lot of depictions of the crucifixion. Just basically it's a placard with Jesus' name and title on it.

 

The knife I don't really even have a firm guess on. The only weapon I know of related to the crucifixion is the Lance of Longinus, which some jerk used to poke Jesus in the side to make sure he was dead. I guess it could be a fragment of that (the tips of some spears could be described as having leaf-shaped blades, if you're feeling up for a stretch). That or something last supper related -- the knife Jesus used in the last supper or maybe that weird knife held by a maybe disembodied hand, maybe one of the disciple's hands in the da Vinci painting. Beats me, really.

 

But my knowledge of the crucifixion comes from art history, not theology, so who knows how accurate my guesses are.

 

Good call on it being the tip of the Spear of Longinus, that makes the most sense of anything. Never even occurred to me.

I know I've seen some people criticize the Dresden Files for the Christian mythos seeming to be ascendant over every other religion in the world, particularly putting the Catholic version on top. That's actually one thing that hasn't bothered me (and I say that as an atheist who often views the Catholic Church as a force of evil in the modern world, mostly due to actions it has taken in regards to reproductive rights around the world). For one, it makes sense that a modern, active religion would be more powerful than a dead religion. And two, the nature of the Knights and Uriel's fondness for Dresden seems to point to the key point in the Christian mythos in the Dresdenverse not being belief or faith in the Christian god, but basically being a decent human being who has faith that all humans are capable of being good and decent beings. I've also wondered just how much of the supposed power of the angels and god is actually a smoke and mirrors bluff to make them look more powerful than they are.

[SecretAsianMan]

I think Christianity in the Dresdenverse is different than the normal perception of it.  Harry describes faith as being a power.  It's not necessarily faith in God (or at least a Christian God) so much as the fact that it's faith period.  Even in our world, faith is a powerful force.  In a world where magic is real, faith can probably do a whole lot of stuff.  Butters points out that he's Jewish, Shiro became a Baptist on accident, and Sanya is agnostic but they're all Knights of the Cross.  You also have Odin, Hades, Faeries, and probably other things from other religions that did or do exist.  In my mind, they're all different sides of the same thing in the Dresdenverse, really it's humanity's interpretation of those concepts that gives form to specific religions.  Christianity is just the biggest current one (at least in Harry's part of the world) so naturally it plays a bigger role.

[Mangela Lansbury]

It seems silly and kind of uninformed to criticize the series for focusing on Christianity. To some extent, I guess it's a little weird that Muslim and Jewish artifacts don't come into play, but they all have essentially the same God and derive from similar mythologies. The only real difference is what prophets you believe in. So, putting that much power into God/YHWH/Allah and His servants doesn't really fall out of line with the internally consistent faith-based power system that Butcher has constructed. They all share certain beliefs but differ on the particulars -- for instance, Jesus plays into Judaism and Islam, they just don't believe he was the son of God.

 

Even calling something like Uriel purely Christian isn't really accurate since he plays into Judaic texts as much as Christian texts. I don't remember his appearances exactly, but his personality and roles as presented in the series are probably most explicitly taken from descriptions in the Book of Enoch, which isn't canon for either Judaism or Christianity but plays into some of the more apocryphal/mystic sects of both.

 

So basically, now that I've thought about it, saying that it's purely Christian mythology is kind of short-sighted and , but criticizing the books for excluding Islam is probably a little bit valid.

[Gormongous]

It seems silly and kind of uninformed to criticize the series for focusing on Christianity. To some extent, I guess it's a little weird that Muslim and Jewish artifacts don't come into play, but they all have essentially the same God and derive from similar mythologies. The only real difference is what prophets you believe in. So, putting that much power into God/YHWH/Allah and His servants doesn't really fall out of line with the internally consistent faith-based power system that Butcher has constructed. They all share certain beliefs but differ on the particulars -- for instance, Jesus plays into Judaism and Islam, they just don't believe he was the son of God.

 

Even calling something like Uriel purely Christian isn't really accurate since he plays into Judaic texts as much as Christian texts. I don't remember his appearances exactly, but his personality and roles as presented in the series are probably most explicitly taken from descriptions in the Book of Enoch, which isn't canon for either Judaism or Christianity but plays into some of the more apocryphal/mystic sects of both.

 

So basically, now that I've thought about it, saying that it's purely Christian mythology is kind of short-sighted and , but criticizing the books for excluding Islam is probably a little bit valid.

 

The thing is, Christianity is obsessed with icons and images in a way that no other religion really is. There are some Jewish and Muslim relics, certainly, but nowhere near as ubiquitous and never with the power imputed to them by Christians. That's what makes it attractive for the sort of urban fantasy that feeds on apocrypha. Granted, hearing that there's a preponderance of mystical Christianity in The Dresden Files makes me much more eager to read the series, It was the best part of Hellboy, after all.

[Bjorn]

The thing is, Christianity is obsessed with icons and images in a way that no other religion really is. There are some Jewish and Muslim relics, certainly, but nowhere near as ubiquitous and never with the power imputed to them by Christians. That's what makes it attractive for the sort of urban fantasy that feeds on apocrypha. Granted, hearing that there's a preponderance of mystical Christianity in The Dresden Files makes me much more eager to read the series, It was the best part of Hellboy, after all.

 

I won't describe them to avoid spoilers, but another reason for the preponderance of Christian stuff is built around three characters whose entire reason for existence is related to Christianity, and they are really cool characters.  Sanya in particular is someone I like a lot.  Any book that features even one of them is inevitably going to have heavy Christian elements, and as has already been mentioned in some of the spoilers, the cast of characters for the Dresden Files has gotten so large that it's already hard to fit in new characters or even feature all the good characters that already exist on a regular basis.

[SecretAsianMan]

I won't describe them to avoid spoilers, but another reason for the preponderance of Christian stuff is built around three characters whose entire reason for existence is related to Christianity, and they are really cool characters.  Sanya in particular is someone I like a lot.  Any book that features even one of them is inevitably going to have heavy Christian elements, and as has already been mentioned in some of the spoilers, the cast of characters for the Dresden Files has gotten so large that it's already hard to fit in new characters or even feature all the good characters that already exist on a regular basis.

 

Don't forget the main enemies of said three characters.  Their basis is also entirely Christian.  And I think my favorite part of all of this, is that they interact with non-Christian stuff all the time and none of them bats an eye.  There's even a priest who regularly gets involved and doesn't say anything of blasphemy.  Almost all the magical/religious factions know of the existence of the others.  They don't really try to deny the other side exists, they just know which team they're playing for.

[42manZ]

Despite the series' fanbase and popularity, I have never read any of the books. What's the appeal/draw?

[SecretAsianMan]

I can only speak for myself, but there's a lot of things I like about it.  The series overall is a essentially a hard boiled detective story in which the detective also happens to be a wizard.  There are a lot of interesting characters and it has a tone that is serious about it's story and plot but not so serious that it can't recognize the absurdity of the setting.  I think what I like the most about the series is that there are rules.  Magic exists but it's more like a science than not.  The characters can't just do whatever they want and justify it with "magic".  It's not about a mystical force, it's about knowledge and the kinds of things that can be done with that knowledge.  Plus Harry cracks me up.