A Song Of Ice And Fire

[pabosher]

Where on Earth did you find all this stuff? It's fantastic. I want to know it all!

[Takhea]

There are plenty more at the site he cited. The only two I can adequately remember right now are...

- Damphair was sexually molested by Euron Crowseye as a child, therefore he keeps thinking of a creaking door when thinking about him and Euron standing in the doorway.

- That the potion Bran is given to drink contains what is left of Jojen, Bran thinks that the potion tastes of blood and Jojen had been getting more and more weak and depressed the further they came towards the cave. He also states that he knows when he will die and that it is soon.

[Argobot]

Not sure if people have already seen this or not, but the New Yorker did a really great profile with GRR Martin a few months before the fifth book was released: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/04/11/110411fa_fact_miller

I'm fascinated by the two conflicting responsibilities that he has: his role as a creator and also his role as a purveyor of a product for sale/consumption, and how these two roles have affected his writing process. The profile also gets into a huge issue with book serials; as the sequels increase, so by default, do the number of characters/settings/etc. It's crazy to me that Martin basically employees a fan to act as a fact-checker not only for the HBO show, but for his own writing as well.

Anyway, it's a good article.

[Thyroid]

GRRM released a new book six chapter yesterday, replacing the old one on his site. It's obviously spoilerific, but it's kind of glorious. All the released material from book six is here, and some of these are transcripts of readings, but it gives a good idea of how the various arcs come together.

[dmarlett]

Reading A Storm of Swords for the first time. So good...

[Thyroid]

How far in are you, page/percentage wise?

[Ben X]

Must... resist... all Book 6 previews...

[Thyroid]

Hey Ben, did you read any of the explanatory hidden stuff I posted earlier? It's too bad I can't remember most of it.

[Ben X]

Yeah, thanks for linking to it, it's all very interesting and most of it had passed me by completely at time of reading! I wish I hadn't read about Jon Snow's mother, though, as that's still just a (very convincing) theory at the moment as opposed to the other, essentially confirmed stuff. I get the feeling that her identity will get revealed overtly at some point and I will have already had it spoiled for me.

I'd definitely like to read more stuff like

Mayhaps and Frey pie

, though!

[Thyroid]

There's more of it, but I seem to have forgotten most of it. Sorry. It's been over a year since I read the series.

On the other hand, this is a pretty screenshot from season 3.

[Corelli]

The best crackpot theory is that Varys is a merling.

Real spoilers on crazy theories here (don't read if you haven't read all the books):

As for the Jojen in the paste thing, I really don't see it. Why wouldn't it just be the red stuff already mentioned in the weirwoods? And would Meera really let her brother be turned into paste so Bran can get magic powers? I kind of doubt it.

[Thyroid]

The merling thing is a joke that everyone just does, isn't it?

[Corelli]

The merling thing is a joke that everyone just does, isn't it?

Yep. But it sums up the crazy conspiracy culture the books have engendered really well.

[Thyroid]

There are some pretty crackpot theories, but the level of detail the books go into can be astonishing. For example, from A Feast for Crows:

The thing with whatever Ser Shadrich (aka "The Mad Mouse") is doing.

Ser Shadrich laughed. “Oh, I doubt that, but it may be that you and I share a quest. A little lost sister, is it? With blue eyes and auburn hair?” He laughed again. “You are not the only hunter in the woods. I seek for Sansa Stark as well.”

Brienne kept her face a mask, to hide her dismay. “Who is this Sansa Stark, and why do you seek her?”

“For love, why else?”

She furrowed her brow. “Love?”

“Aye, love of gold. Unlike your good Ser Creighton, I did fight upon the Blackwater, but on the losing side. My ransom ruined me. You know who Varys is, I trust? The eunuch has offered a plump bag of gold for this girl you’ve never heard of. I am not a greedy man. If some oversized wench would help me find this naughty child, I would split the Spider’s coin with her.”

“I thought you were in this merchant’s hire.”

“Only so far as Duskendale. Hibald is as niggardly as he is fearful. And he is very fearful. What say you, wench?”

“I know no Sansa Stark,” she insisted. “I am searching for my sister, a highborn girl . . .”

“. . . with blue eyes and auburn hair, aye. Pray, who is this knight who travels with your sister? Or did you name him fool?” Ser Shadrich did not wait for her answer, which was good, since she had none. “A certain fool vanished from King’s Landing the night King Joffrey died, a stout fellow with a nose full of broken veins, one Ser Dontos the Red, formerly of Duskendale. I pray your sister and her drunken fool are not mistaken for the Stark girl and Ser Dontos. That could be most unfortunate.” He put his heels into his courser and trotted on ahead.

(AFFC: BRIENNE I)

Later

The hour was closer to dawn than to dusk, and most of the castle was asleep, but not Petyr Baelish. Alayne found him seated by a crackling fire, drinking hot mulled wine with three men she did not know. They all rose when she entered, and Petyr smiled warmly. “Alayne. Come, give your father a kiss.”

She hugged him dutifully and kissed him on the cheek. “I am sorry to intrude, Father. No one told me you had company.”

“You are never an intrusion, sweetling. I was just now telling these good knights what a dutiful daughter I had.”

“Dutiful and beautiful,” said an elegant young knight whose thick blond mane cascaded down well past his shoulders.

“Aye,” said the second knight, a burly fellow with a thick salt-and-pepper beard, a red nose bulbous with broken veins, and gnarled hands as large as hams. “You left out that part, m’lord.”

“I would do the same if she were my daughter,” said the last knight, a short, wiry man with a wry smile, pointed nose, and bristly orange hair. “Particularly around louts like us.”

Alayne laughed. “Are you louts?” she said, teasing. “Why, I took the three of you for gallant knights.”

“Knights they are,” said Petyr. “Their gallantry has yet to be demonstrated, but we may hope. Allow me to present Ser Byron, Ser Morgarth, and Ser Shadrich. Sers, the Lady Alayne, my natural and very clever daughter . . . with whom I must needs confer, if you will be so good as to excuse us.”

The three knights bowed and withdrew, though the tall one with the blond hair kissed her hand before taking his leave.

AFFC: ALAYNE II

What's he up to? Does he realize it's her? Is he going to get her to the Iron Throne? And if not, is GRRM just playing games here to add suspense?

I love this level of detail. Most people wouldn't even notice.

[Corelli]

There are some pretty crackpot theories, but the level of detail the books go into can be astonishing. For example, from A Feast for Crows:

Oh absolutely. The density and complexity of the plotting is arguably the best part about it.

But there are also theories like this:

The Boltons are actually Others. Darkstar is the real Aegon Taergaryen. Varys is an immortal faceless man. It goes on and on and only gets crazier.

[Thyroid]

Fandoms are stupid. That's why I ignore all fandoms.

[Ben X]

Re. the thing Kroms just pointed out: HOLY SHIIIIIIT COMPLETELY WENT OVER MY HEAD!

[Thyroid]

There's a lot, and I do mean a lot, like that. For what it's worth, I did post some stuff before that I think you missed, like

Abel being Mance, Septa Lemore being a Sand Snake and Alleras being Sarella Sand.

I need to re-read the books before The Winds of Winter hits. Yallah, George.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Re. the thing Kroms just pointed out: HOLY SHIIIIIIT COMPLETELY WENT OVER MY HEAD!

Good gravy. I can't imagine what stuff I might miss when I get back to reading this series.

[Ben X]

There's a lot, and I do mean a lot, like that. For what it's worth, I did post some stuff before that I think you missed, like

Abel being Mance, Septa Lemore being a Sand Snake and Alleras being Sarella Sand.

I need to re-read the books before The Winds of Winter hits. Yallah, George.

I thought I'd gone back and read everything in this thread... I don't even understand any of what you're saying, there! I will definitely re-read all of the books before embarking on TWOW.

[Thyroid]

Oh...ADWD spoilers ahead.

The singer with the women who kill off Boltons and Freys is Mance Rayder. You know, the one at Winterfell. He goes in disguised as "Abel", an anagram of "Bael" the bard; he's never named as "Mance" because Theon has no way of recognizing him.

Septa Lemore is with Tyrion, on the ship. She swims naked in the river and is covered in stretch marks, as if she's given birth. She's supposedly mother of one of the Sand Snakes, although I'm hazy on the evidence.

Alleras the Sphinx is the guy who shoots apples with his bow at the beginning of A Feast for Crows. He's also the guy who brings Samwell up to where "Pate" (Jaqen) is and shows him the glass candles. He's also not a guy at all, but Sarella Sand, one of Oberyn Martell's bastard daughters, as several hints, including his mannerisms and description, indicate.

[Ben X]

Plus

Alleras is Sarella backwards

! Wow, I wonder if any of this stuff is actually going to play into things or never actually get mentioned. I can't even begin to fathom why there are

hidden Sand people everywhere. I guess it's part of Doran Martell's incredibly patient long con.

I did work out the first one because

Mance was supposed to be rescuing Sansa (I just couldn't remember who Abel was because all the names have slipped out of my head already)

, but the other two seem pretty subtle. I did, at least, realise that it was

Alleras showing Sam to Pate, but I don't think I remembered that Pate was the guy who got killed by the alchemist.

I can't even remember what stuff I did and didn't realise any more! Aaaagh!

I'm hoping that

Syrio reappears, possibly turning out to be the kindly man (who says "Just so" at one point, although this could just be because it's a Braavosian saying).

I've been watching the first season of the tv show, and it's very well done. The White Walkers look very different to how I imagined, though, and a lot of the pure arsehole characters actually come across as a bit less severe, possibly just by virtue of being played by actual real people.

[Thyroid]

The White Walkers in the book are quite different to their TV counterparts.

I hope, and think, Syrio doesn't return, although GRRM declined to answer that question when he managed to write the episode in which he dies - once again choosing to set the death off-screen.

Also, I read an interview with him once where he said that the actor who plays Syrio once asked him to resurrect the character, but that he didn't know how to do it. I hope he doesn't. The beauty of this series is that it is merciless.

[Ben X]

It's easy to do it -

Trant didn't kill him, doesn't say anything out of embarrassment because he's a shit knight.

So easy, in fact, that it's strange that Martin would claim otherwise...

[Thyroid]

Wouldn't Syrio have run after her?