vimes

Infinite Jest

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After watching The Avengers this morning, I made a detour to one of the Kinokuniya bookshops in Singapore and sort of went overboard: I got Infinite Jest, Forever War, The Book of Grickle, Bone - Complete Edition, Fables - Book 4 and The Man in the High Castle. All of those came this thread, by the way. How interesting!:shifty:

I spent 4 hours reading Bone from cover to cover and my feelings are mixed. On one hand, it's definitely a page turned and I'm really amazed by how well different tones mix. There's no doubt for me that Smith has tremendous comic writing skills. But I feel like they are being misused in this epic storyline. : I'm not sure this makes sense, but at one point, it seemed the story could have branched to something else than 101 medieval fantasy. Something that could have taken a better advantage of the realistic-cartoony juxtaposition. Then again, I can't quite imagine what. In terms of art - and this may not be a fair comparison - I think Franck Cho's work on Liberty Meadows was bette, but then again it's already pretty good .

Beside that, I've read the first chapter of Infinite Jest, and it looks like this monster of a book is going to test the range of my English vocabulary and my grap of intrincate sentence structure.;(:tup::tmeh:

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you really should read Infinite Jest. even if you're not the type to get way into literary criticism and analysis, it's a tightly-wound, interesting, and extremely funny book.

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Vimes, only now do I notice you are actually in Singapore, despite it having been clearly there underneath your avatar for a long time! What are you up to over there?

Doing gameplay programming for a living.:tup: Some titles I contributed to involved rolling with the Pope.:tmeh: But I can't take credit for that particular feature.:tdown:

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you really should read Infinite Jest. even if you're not the type to get way into literary criticism and analysis, it's a tightly-wound, interesting, and extremely funny book.

Agreed.

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incidentally, if you want to read some of David Foster Wallace's stuff but don't want to jump into Infinite Jest right away, you could do worse than to start with The Broom of the System or Brief Interviews with Hideous Men. to some extent I think they're the The Crying of Lot 49 to David Foster Wallace's Gravity's Rainbow -- it feels like they have as much, if not more, of his voice despite not being as intimidating as Infinite Jest.

Brief Interviews, in particular, features one of my favorite pieces of writing ever, "A Radically Condensed History of Postindustrial Life":

When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.

The man who'd introduced them didn't much like either of them, though he acted as if he did, anxious as he was to preserve good relations at all times. One never knew, after all, now did one now did one now did one.

Agreed.

also, on a side note: I want to put in another vote for doing The Pale King one of these months. I haven't read it past the first half-chapter or so yet.

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incidentally, if you want to read some of David Foster Wallace's stuff but don't want to jump into Infinite Jest right away, you could do worse than to start with The Broom of the System or Brief Interviews with Hideous Men. to some extent I think they're the The Crying of Lot 49 to David Foster Wallace's Gravity's Rainbow -- it feels like they have as much, if not more, of his voice despite not being as intimidating as Infinite Jest.

Brief Interviews, in particular, features one of my favorite pieces of writing ever, "A Radically Condensed History of Postindustrial Life":

There's also Wallace's essay collection Consider the Lobster. I recently read that and found it incredibly absorbing. It's also quite accessible, since all the essays were originally published (in abridged form) as long-form magazine journalism.

also, on a side note: I want to put in another vote for doing The Pale King one of these months. I haven't read it past the first half-chapter or so yet.

In all likelihood, we'd end up reading Infinite Jest before The Pale King, since I think it's the kind of thing a lot of people would like an "excuse" to read.

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incidentally, if you want to read some of David Foster Wallace's stuff but don't want to jump into Infinite Jest right away, you could do worse than to start with The Broom of the System or Brief Interviews with Hideous Men. to some extent I think they're the The Crying of Lot 49 to David Foster Wallace's Gravity's Rainbow -- it feels like they have as much, if not more, of his voice despite not being as intimidating as Infinite Jest.

Brief Interviews, in particular, features one of my favorite pieces of writing ever, "A Radically Condensed History of Postindustrial Life".

I would caution that you can sort of tell that The Broom of the System is Wallace's first book, and owes the most to the sort of '60s writers like Pynchon and Barthelme that Wallace took inspiration from. It's distinctively Wallace, but after reading it I understood why he later thought it was trying too hard to be liked. (The Girl with the Curious Hair is mostly weird unless you know whose writing Wallace is reacting to in each piece, and even then I didn't really dig it.)

I'm also totally in love with Brief Interviews, which I think shocked me even more than when I first read Wallace in Consider the Lobster. The titular stories are pretty amazing, and the range displayed between "Forever Overhead" and "Octet" alone is absolutely stunning.

I like it a lot more as a whole than Oblivion, even though some pieces there like "Grand Old Neon" are stunning in their own right. And since no one's mentioned it yet, A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again is also a good starter with the state fair and cruise ship pieces (though I love the television essay there most of all).

The math book Everything and More is really cool too if you like math or want more DFW, but be warned that it really is trying to teach you the mathematical concepts involved and you gotta pay attention.

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In all likelihood, we'd end up reading Infinite Jest before The Pale King, since I think it's the kind of thing a lot of people would like an "excuse" to read.

Idle Thumbs presents the return of the Infinite Summer?!?

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I just split these posts from Books, Books, Books out into a new thread mainly as a test to see if that would work. I guess it did!

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In all likelihood, we'd end up reading Infinite Jest before The Pale King, since I think it's the kind of thing a lot of people would like an "excuse" to read.

I definitely fall into the would love an "excuse" to read Infinite Jest territory. It sits on my bookshelf, mocking me.

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There is now a whole thread to talk about Infinite Jest. Who wants to talk about Infinite Jest, I want to talk about Infinite Jest.

Whenever I think about the book nowadays, (not having re-read it in a year or so), what I end up daydreaming over is the really fucking beautifully specific images it creates. I guess it's obvious that a book that interested in film would leave images like that, but man, being able to picture

Marathe on the hill, or James standing over Gately's bed

so clearly is what I end up liking most. That said, right after reading it the first time, or at a dozen different times, I would maybe point to something else being the best thing.

I will however likely die still being able to see

Gately lying on a big long beach in the rain.

E: Oh yeah I should spoiler this stuff.

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There is now a whole thread to talk about Infinite Jest. Who wants to talk about Infinite Jest, I want to talk about Infinite Jest.

Whenever I think about the book nowadays, (not having re-read it in a year or so), what I end up daydreaming over is the really fucking beautifully specific images it creates. I guess it's obvious that a book that interested in film would leave images like that, but man, being able to picture

Marathe on the hill, or James standing over Gately's bed

so clearly is what I end up liking most. That said, right after reading it the first time, or at a dozen different times, I would maybe point to something else being the best thing.

I will however likely die still being able to see

Gately lying on a big long beach in the rain.

E: Oh yeah I should spoiler this stuff.

There are many scenes of great beauty in Infinite Jest. However there is also a particular scene that is seared into my memory as one of the most disturbingly gruesome images from any work I have ever experienced--not in the sense that it is straight up the grossest thing to ever occur, but it sticks in my brain in a uniquely graphic way, thanks to the language used to describe it and the state of mind of the character at the time. It is when

Poor Tony bites down on the latex-gloved hand in his mouth.

The realization of what's going on in that scene is just horrifying to me. Also, involving the same character, when

Poor Tony snatches the purse with the artificial heart, and the woman screams "She stole my heart!"

, that scene just sticks in my mind as both physically and emotionally distressing to the goddamn maximum.

God, this book.

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It's been a long time since I read that book, but the one image that's always stuck with me more than any other is

the face in the floor

.

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There's also Wallace's essay collection Consider the Lobster. I recently read that and found it incredibly absorbing. It's also quite accessible, since all the essays were originally published (in abridged form) as long-form magazine journalism.

I keep hearing good things about his essays.

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I'm halfway throught the book (cut in four parts - 3 for the book, 1 for the notes), but what and I feel like I've chugged a whole library already.

Getting warmed up to the style was hard: in the first reading sessions, my endurance was not match for the writer's. I couldn't keep up till the end of some sentences for the first few hours, then I dropped during some passage, and I felt like The Man when I finally reached the end of a chapters without burning out...

After that, I really enjoyed the book: it's really easy to get drawned in by the thought process of the characters and by the richness of details that the fake historical bits are full of. It's also amazing how Wallace can build compelling arguments and discussion about things whose premices are bordeline ludicrous.

The segments I'm more interested in are about the unfathomability of the 12 steps programs' success (Don Gately is a really a fascinating character to watch wrestle with his addiction and his recovery) and some of the earlier chapters written from the perspectives of addicts came out as frighteningly vivid - one in particular resonating with me in disturbing ways. And I'm also getting a kick out of any of the phone discussion between Hal and Orin.

Still, Reading Infinite Jest has some damn uncomfortable side-effects: it's basically a blackhole, sucking in all my intellectual 'stock' for the two weeks I dedicated my 3 hours daily reading time to it. Not only is it sometimes demanding to read it, but it's also prone to send my mind in spiraling though experiments and the content of each reading session haunted me way afterward.

I don't see how anyone can read this book, and this book only until completion. I couldn't: I had to get time away from Infinite Jest to others so reading would still hold some replenishing value, not only depleting ones.

Anyway, a great book, but clearly too much too handle in the reading style I've had so far.

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When I read it, it was the only book I was reading, but I ended up reading less each day than normal. It is indeed exhausting.

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When I read it, it was the only book I was reading, but I ended up reading less each day than normal. It is indeed exhausting.

This was true for me until the last quarter, I think after

Gately was hospitalised

I finished the book in two more sittings.

my endurance was not match for the writer's.

I don't think anyone can match Wallace. As Dave Eggers says in the foreword, the fact that it was written in three years by a writer under thirty-five is painful to think about.

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I started reading at the start of semester, and realised I just couldn't keep it up.

My new plan is to come back to it in the summer when I can devote more brain power to it.

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Fantastic book. Just finished it, and so many sequences just slammed it out of the park for me. The first real knockout sequence was

M. Psychosis/Joelle trying to OD

and then after that there were these regular 20-page jags of amazing writing, usually delving into the backstory of these characters. The AA process of repressed memories bubbling up is such fertile ground for searingly personal writing like that, and I can't think of any other book able to accomplish the same. Maybe Murakami, though he tends to be a lot more understated and fabulist when he comes to the personal backstory jags.

Long, long book though. Between the text-heavy pages and the required footnotes, I think it edges out Caro's stuff as the longest book I've ever read. Totally worth it.

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Fantastic book. Just finished it, and so many sequences just slammed it out of the park for me. The first real knockout sequence was

M. Psychosis/Joelle trying to OD

I think it happens after this sequence, but the moment when you work out who Joelle is, and how she fits in with everything, is fucking fantastic. That was the moment when I realised 'oh this is why you make it hard'.

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Given the crazy amount of Canadian content that this book has, I'm really interested in why exactly it would resonate so well with American readers. It's weird, as I've been reading this over the last month-ish, I've been having flashbacks to the Quebec separatist heyday of the mid-90's and having a lot of the background story really hitting close to home for me (particularly the far-right Alberta separatist stuff, as I live with some people who actually are that) but am kinda baffled that it has so much of an impact on those who didn't grow up immersed in that. Also, how much does it impact your opinion of the book if you don't speak French? There's a lot of untranslated stuff in there. Any theories/thoughts from the US folks who love the book?

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Given the crazy amount of Canadian content that this book has, I'm really interested in why exactly it would resonate so well with American readers. It's weird, as I've been reading this over the last month-ish, I've been having flashbacks to the Quebec separatist heyday of the mid-90's and having a lot of the background story really hitting close to home for me (particularly the far-right Alberta separatist stuff, as I live with some people who actually are that) but am kinda baffled that it has so much of an impact on those who didn't grow up immersed in that. Also, how much does it impact your opinion of the book if you don't speak French? There's a lot of untranslated stuff in there. Any theories/thoughts from the US folks who love the book?

I don't really have an answer to this except to ask why you would think that would discount it from resonating with Americans. Stuff like Downton Abbey wouldn't become a phenomenon here if there weren't a fair number of people willing to engage with creative works that are deeply steeped in other cultures.

Another angle on this would be that Infinite Jest is a work of such incredible ambition and breadth that it's impossible (at least, for my limited brain) to boil it down to centering on any one theme or conflict or setting. Its scope is overwhelming. I think anyone willing to see a work like that through to its completion isn't going to be put off because they don't have lifelong experience with a particular piece of foreign national culture; I suspect it's more likely to inspire such a reader to learn more about the conflict in question. That was the case for me, anyway.

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That's fair, it just hits so many personal notes for me (before moving out West, I grew up about a 3 hour drive from the Quebec border right in the middle of the Lucien Bouchard separatist days) and so much of the background history of the book has me thinking back on it and is putting me in the world so much more than I'd expected before picking up the book. It's not that I don't expect it to resonate, I was more asking how much that kind of thing was in your consciousness before and if a lack of that made the book even more difficult than it already is. As you said, you were driven to learn more about the conflict. Did you do that while reading the book or after? Did that make it more interesting in retrospect, or illuminate anything after the fact, or not impact your thoughts on the book at all? Having grown up immersed in that conflict, at least to the point that the book branches from real history, has been a huge part of making the early going accessible enough for me to get past the halfway point. Now I have the momentum and interest in the world to keep on going (at about page 550 right now) but the first couple of hundred pages may have been too obtuse for me without that to ground me. I'm more wondering what the experience of reading the book without having that would be than assuming that not having it would keep it from resonating. No one (I assume) would deny that this is a difficult book to read, at least at first, and I'm curious as to what it was that others latched on to to pull them through the early parts, because the Quebec separatist angle was what did it for me.

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I had only the vaguest idea that that conflict existed before I read it. I still don't really have a good sense of how much of it is real and how much was fiction (I never bothered to research it afterwards, shamefully), but I thought that what was depicted of it in the book was given enough context that I didn't have a problem following along the same way I would if it were completely made up.

I didn't latch onto that stuff early on, though -- as I recall, the stuff that was most interesting to me at the start was the parts narrated by Hal. I just found the prose very enjoyable to read, and as a former precocious kid who was kind of an asshole, there was some stuff in there that I felt I could "identify with." I was hooked from the "professional conversationalist" scene.

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