The Walking Dead

[soggybagel]

More Spoiler Chat:

I'm surprised that so many people were looking forward to ditching Ben in any way possible whenever they could. The irony of letting him die doesn't strike anyone especially after all the talk about Crawford being a society that would ditch people if they stopped being 100 percent useful?

And of course when I say "FUCK KENNY" I'm kind of annoyed at how it all turned out with his attitude given that I feel like I really had his back about fifty fifty. I have read a bit of grumbling about how much player choice there really is, and while I've loved every episode I will say that once you hit episode 2 and 3 and people are getting offed, it does unbalance the human relation point. Obviously I'll be less attached to people and because of that some of the later game decisions aren't as difficult as I think they could have been.

Also who brought Clementine with them and who left her at the house? I Left her at the house. And I saved Molly with some crack shooting.

[twmac]

Agree with most of the spoiler stuff. Except for comments about Ben, hate that guy.

There is a particularly nasty bug in the X360 version that happened to me and a friend. The achievements pop-up as unlocked but don't enumerate your overall score nor do they increase the game's score. Not sure why it happened, but it means there is one achievement I can't get ever because I have technically unlocked it but the score won't tally up. It doesn't seem like a big deal but it irks me that I cannot have it registered as 100%. My buddy got it worse as none of the achievements for this chapter enumerated in his total score.

This actually felt the weakest of the series, maybe as it is a tough act to follow up on episode 3. There were just a few things both narratively and mechanically that really, really annoyed me.

[toblix]

That achievement bug sounds weird, if I understand you correctly. It's not up to the game to calculate your gam0rz score, so either something's wrong with the achievements API or something's wrong with the achievements system.

[vimes]

I've given up : after having spent 3 days trying to get Episode 4 through the Telltale version of the game (and getting a bajillions error of connection and buggy resume of the download), I spat out 25 bucks to get The Walking Dead on Steam. That way, I get a downloading/update service that has been properly designed and implemented.

I paid twice since I really wanted to play the full series: what I've seen so far is very good, and depending on how it wraps up, I think Sean and Jake might have created not only a great game but an important one for the medium... but , that being said, it amazes me that a company focused on episodic content didn't get that part of the distribution right.

Also paying twice made me feel like I've taken an irreversible step toward blind fanboyism.

Anyway, I'll be playing it soon!

[toblix]

Although there are worse games to pay double for, I thought you could just activate your key on Steam?

[vimes]

Although there are worse games to pay double for, I thought you could just activate your key on Steam?

Yeah, but I would rather pay a second copy as a gift for a friend rather than a second one for me.

In any case, I don't have a Steam key; I think they were only given to preorders.

[twmac]

That achievement bug sounds weird, if I understand you correctly. It's not up to the game to calculate your gam0rz score, so either something's wrong with the achievements API or something's wrong with the achievements system.

Actually that can be the game's fault. There is a good chance that something like the gameconfig file was not correctly updated. It fixed itself but at a cost.

[subbes]

Here, told through the medium of "found footage" of Steam chat, tweets, and things yelled aloud to an empty apartment, is my story of The Walking Dead Episode 4.

---

subbes: OH SHIT BEN

subbes: BEN

subbes: YOU FUCKING MUPPET, BEN

(small pause; shammack is AFK)

shammack: did he fuck everything up

shammack: again

subbes: oh hey this thing holding the door closed, keeping the slavering hordes of walkers from entering the building? Yeah, let's just pull it out and take it back to the classroom because i need something to pry a lock open and can't wait 15 seconds for molly to come back with her climbing thing.

shammack: haha

---

---

(SUBBES SIGHS.)

"Kenny. Kenny, did you forget that what happens in the bell tower, stays in the bell tower?"

---

(AS LEE REACHES OUT TOWARDS CLEMENTINE, SUBBES ECHOES THE MOTION, CRADLING HER LAPTOP. SHE MAKES A SMALL, SAD SOUND.)

---

---

(STUNNED SILENCE.)

clem. no.

clem.

no.

clem

I am reacting when Clementine is in danger and when she is sad. Not just the video game reflex to "Press Q to Clementine," but the physical and emotional reaction you'd have to a person that you... care about.

Remember that dog in Fable 2, the canine who first taught us to love?

Clem's not the dog from Fable 2. Clementine is Little Dorrit.

[toblix]

Actually that can be the game's fault. There is a good chance that something like the gameconfig file was not correctly updated. It fixed itself but at a cost.

Seems so weird that they would allow a corrupt/broken game to break the achievement system.

[vimes]

So, I've got the Steam version but when I try to continue my game and load Episode 4 all I get is a black screen.

No crash. No message. Just the abyss endlessly staring back at me... if I stare long enough I can hear the voices of the dead, judging me.

I KNOW! I KNOW! I SHOULDN'T HAVE

LET DOUG DIED

OR

TAUGHT CLEMENTINE HOW TO SHOOT!

. But let me play, I can fix this! I know I can! * breaks down*

[Tanukitsune]

I usually play the new episode the moment it comes out, but I wanted to have something for the weekend, so I waited...

DAMN! Now I can't wait until the next episode!

I'm surprised how little death happened in this episode... OK, all of Crawford was dead, but that happened before I was there. I really feel bad for Chuck, I'm pretty sure he would have been a great help to the group with his hobo wizardy.

I feel terrible for Kenny, seeing a zombie kid that just looked like Duck? That's harsh, I had to kill it myself, I couldn't let Kenny do it... And I shot him, I wanted it to be quick and painless, for all of us...

Kenny's last hope was getting the boat, and after loosing his family, the "zombie Duck" and finding no boats? I can understand him getting drunk, I don't condone it, but I understand... The boat was the only thing keeping him together. Although when Molly pointed out how foolish it was too think a boat would be left, I did feel dumb.

I can't help to notice Crawford and the whole "Ben is useless" thing happen at the same time, as if the game is telling me: "THIS IS YOU IF YOU LET BEN DIE!". In the end I left him with the boat, because it's a big responsibility? I saw in the end that you could somehow have everybody come with you, but I didn't figure that one out... I'm pretty sure someone will die in the last episode BECAUSE Ben didn't come with me...

It's so obvious Christa is pregnant, and I have I feeling she'll die as soon as the game tells us, just to make the death more tragic... :|

And for the end.... JEEESUUUS! Lee is bitten and Clementine is kidnapped? I don't know what to think, I know it's not the bite that kills you, it's dying that turns you, but... The name of the episode is pretty spoiler-y, I don't think Lee will make, but he will rescue Clementine.

I'm pretty sure the finale is going to be ridiculously intense and I wonder who will survive, do we really need Kenny for the boat? I'm pretty sure Christie will die and Omid won't, for the reasons I said before. Clem WILL survive.... Because I will hunt all of Telltale don't if she doesn't! Lee is a goner, Ben I think will redeem himself, but I left him behind? So maybe, Omid, Ben and Kenny with Clem?

[Gwardinen]

I played it on Steam. Also, I just remembered Steam did some new, magic thing to the game data when I started it. It converted it to a more «efficient» format or something. That probably isn't what caused the bug, but it was still interesting. Anyone else see that? Know what it's about?

Yeah, it did that for me too before it actually let me download the latest episode. That said, my stats screen was fine at the end so I can't help you on that front.

Regarding episode four:

Did anyone else find the decisions of whether to take Clem with or leave her behind during the two "missions" incredibly difficult? They were probably the hardest parts of the episode for me. I didn't want to put her in danger, but I was worried about leaving her at the house too, particularly during the latter mission since there was no one but a sick Omid there. I gave her the gun, and it seemed like that was enough, but it definitely worried the shit out of me. Also I kept expecting her to either willingly leave with the Walkie Talkie Man, or be abducted by him, if I didn't watch her all the time. Turns out that was a pretty solid thing to be concerned about.

Oh, also, when Vernon offered to take her I was extremely conflicted. I eventually told him it was a lot to think about and needed some time, and then since she vanished it became moot. However, the actual decision was already weighing on me - maybe she would have been better off with his group. Where the fuck are we going to go with this boat anyway? With the Crawford crew gone, Savannah doesn't seem any less safe than anywhere else, and there's always the possibility that her parents really are still alive. She's not going to find them sailing off with me. No one's actually made a good case for taking care of her themselves before, so I was somewhat unprepared for the question and it really did prompt some quick but furious thinking.

[Tanukitsune]

Yeah, it did that for me too before it actually let me download the latest episode. That said, my stats screen was fine at the end so I can't help you on that front.

Regarding episode four:

Did anyone else find the decisions of whether to take Clem with or leave her behind during the two "missions" incredibly difficult? They were probably the hardest parts of the episode for me. I didn't want to put her in danger, but I was worried about leaving her at the house too, particularly during the latter mission since there was no one but a sick Omid there. I gave her the gun, and it seemed like that was enough, but it definitely worried the shit out of me. Also I kept expecting her to either willingly leave with the Walkie Talkie Man, or be abducted by him, if I didn't watch her all the time. Turns out that was a pretty solid thing to be concerned about.

Oh, also, when Vernon offered to take her I was extremely conflicted. I eventually told him it was a lot to think about and needed some time, and then since she vanished it became moot. However, the actual decision was already weighing on me - maybe she would have been better off with his group. Where the fuck are we going to go with this boat anyway? With the Crawford crew gone, Savannah doesn't seem any less safe than anywhere else, and there's always the possibility that her parents really are still alive. She's not going to find them sailing off with me. No one's actually made a good case for taking care of her themselves before, so I was somewhat unprepared for the question and it really did prompt some quick but furious thinking.

Clem got us in the house and found the boat, she's be in danger, but frankly... she's a smart, resourceful and brave little girl, when I left her in the school with Ben and told her she was taking care of Ben, Lee was saying exactly what I was thinking. Heck, I bet Clem is more useful than Onid and Ben combined! She seems to have grown up fast while still being a youthful innocent kid.

When Vernon made that offer, my first though was: NO! CLEM IS MINE! MY PRECIOUS! HOBBITSES CAN NOT HAVE HER! MIIIIIINEEEE! ¬_¬U

As for her parents... Didn't the first episode pretty much say they were dead? The messages left pretty much said one of them was bitten, right?

[TurboPubx-16]

I was shocked when Kenny decided not to come with me at the end to look for Clem, but only for a second. I really cannot overstate how much I have supported him throughout the course of the game, but his character accurately portrays those who are very easily susceptible to confirmation bias when it comes to personal matters. You either do exactly he wants or you are actively working against him. It's also deplorable how he acts in those situations where we're supposed to cover each other, the newsstand being umpteenth time when Lee was about to meet death while Kenny was picking fleas out of his mustache.

People are drawing connections between the methods Crawford used and how the game is trying to get you to ditch Ben, but I don't think the situations are exactly parallel. Crawford denied people for prejudicial reasons, whereas the player would abandon Ben out of pragmatism (or rage) due to him constantly putting people in danger and not taking responsibility for Clem. I voted that we ditch Ben, but in the end I saved him at the bell tower. Killing someone, abandoning him, and letting him fall to his death are all completely different actions, and threatening to do the second one while preventing the last is the best way to raise a teenager, I think.

I think the group should head for Cuba. Their quarantine procedures are really good.

[subbes]

Maybe Madagascar.

[Lu]

I was gonna wait till all episodes were out, but I have poor impulse control, so I figured "4 is close enough".

The writers are wonderfully cruel bastards. Seriously, you motherfuckers.

And even though Kenny came with me, he has been an unreliable jerk the moments when I really needed him. He and Ben are kind of similar in that regard, except Ben's just a kid still, so I saved him. AND NOW LEE GON GIT BIT. This sucks. But is also awesome. But goddammit it sucks.

I'ma save Clem, say my goodbyes, find a quiet spot and eat a bullet, I think. Well, Lee will. If I get that choice.

The Walking Dead: Episode 5: Countdown to Tears

[subbes]

I revealed to shammack that I'd been playing TWD with the sound turned off, so I could listen to a podcast in the background (multitasking! also it helps me not get so spooked). He convinced me to turn the voices back on for a spell, and man. In my head, Lee has Lester Freamon's voice and I can't get comfy with anything else.

[TurboPubx-16]

My reaction to the post above this one is the face you see to the left.

[soggybagel]

I revealed to shammack that I'd been playing TWD with the sound turned off, so I could listen to a podcast in the background (multitasking! also it helps me not get so spooked). He convinced me to turn the voices back on for a spell, and man. In my head, Lee has Lester Freamon's voice and I can't get comfy with anything else.

What? I don't know how in gods name you can do this? The only time I ever listen to anything other than game audio is if I'm playing a sports game or a racing game.

[subbes]

I think the answer involves my ADD.

[Twig]

Okay I beat episode four now.

Uh, Tanu!

I know it's not the bite that kills you, it's dying that turns you, but...

The bite does kill you. You turn into a zombie regardless of how you die (unless your brain done got kilt), but the bite speeds up the process so that you die prematurely, in a day or two.

Other stuff:

When you initially get to Crawford, Ben says, "I've got a baaad feeling about this!", and my first thought was, "Who got Scoobie Doo in my Walking Dead?" It made me laugh. I liked it.

Kenny is such a dick! I supported him more than I supported anyone else, but he goes all "noooope, ain't helpin' you"! MAN. Kenny is such a good character.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET THE PLAYER AVATAR BIT, GODDAMNIT.

This series is so good.

[Argobot]

Just finished the latest episode, and it amazed me in the way that I've come to expect with this series. Such a great game, with such an amazing story line.

If I had one quibble with this episode, it'd be:

How Crawford ends up infected. It didn't make any sense for that woman to stab the doctor. Yeah, he wanted her to abort her pregnancy but he also said she could just leave the town. If he was going to let her leave, why did she have to stab him? Did she think that no one would notice he'd died and that she'd be able to hide her pregnancy? Also, all the references to her not having a "choice" were a little much, but I guess there's no real good way to write an abortion mini-plot in your post-apocalyptic zombie game.

[Lu]

Well, how I took it:

Because leaving Crawford was analogous to a death sentence. Also, didn't she cause a shootout that probably killed a bundle of folks or did I misunderstand that? I thought that she was the catalyst that brought the fall of Crawford.

I dunno, I didn't read that heavily into the whole abortion thing, but that might be a cultural thing. I thought it fit with the whole Crawford doctrine.

[Argobot]

Well, how I took it:

Because leaving Crawford was analogous to a death sentence. Also, didn't she cause a shootout that probably killed a bundle of folks or did I misunderstand that? I thought that she was the catalyst that brought the fall of Crawford.

I dunno, I didn't read that heavily into the whole abortion thing, but that might be a cultural thing. I thought it fit with the whole Crawford doctrine.

Right, but isn't killing the doctor and then fighting her way out just another kind of death sentence? If her goal is just to leave Crawford, and the doctor told her she could do that, why didn't she just leave peacefully? I just don't understand why she had to kill anyone.

As far as the abortion stuff, I think it just set me on edge because the subject is usually horribly maligned in American pop culture (just look at how the Walking Dead TV show handled a similar story line) and I was kind of waiting for that subplot to crash and burn during the episode. I think it's a credit to the writing on The Walking Dead game that they were able to handle a tricky subject better than most. But I'm sure that I'm paying way more attention to that storyline than the average Walking Dead player, and that most people probably didn't even give it a second thought, which, fair enough.

[vimes]

I finally managed to play Episode 4.

Jesus, that ending... every time I think Telltale's writers got most out of the dialog tree interaction, they find something again.

I too found the choice to either bring Clementine on the mission or leave her at the house to be the most difficult one of the episode: in my head, I could hear Chuck's advice to have her be prepared for when I'd be gone which was pushing me to have her witness Crawford herself; but I also didn't want her to be exposed to all the bullshit that could arise from the group imploding during that mission... which I expected would happen. Somehow, the fact that Chuck is the only one so far to sacrifice himself knowingly weighted heavily on that decision. Strange.

The Walking Dead is probably the first game in which I'm not using utility or morality to take decisions: quite often, the alternative is shaped so that the few foreseeable consequences cannot be categorized as right or wrong and the decision 'moment' never shoulder game concepts to discriminate between each possibility. I've been suspecting that offering such choices was the only way to inhibit player's instinct to min/max systems (be them moral or gameplay centric) and to have them take earnest decision, but The Walking Dead is the first time I've seen this implemented. It does this magnificently and even if not all the choices are shapes like that - which may be for the best - there's a significant amount of them and that's AMAZING.

I just wish I could help Ben by punching him in the face when he needs to shut up for his own good.

Edited for clarity... I hope.

Edited October 28, 2012 by vimes