Watching other people play games

[Thompson]

Maybe i'm fucked up but I love watching my sister playing games, especially the Sims 2. When I watched her play Uncharted 2 it was pretty unbearable because she would spend like 10 minutes exploring every single nook and cranny of every single inch of every room.

That's not the fucked up part.

Here's the fucked up part, I love to have somebody watch me play games.

There's something about playing a game while somebody watches that makes me enjoy a game a lot more, maybe it's like I am, in a way, performing for that person.

I don't know, anybody want to give a rational explanation?

[Lu]

You make it sound like you're getting some weird sexual thing out of it.

I don't really see what is weird about enjoying the company of others.

[Thompson]

weird sexual thing

I like to watch...

[elmuerte]

she would spend like 10 minutes exploring every single nook and cranny of every single inch of every room.

I do the same, I don't want to miss out on anything in the game.

[Quanta]

The last time I watched somebody play a computer game for a considerable amount of time was in my teenage. But I don't remember it beeing particularly entertaining. The only hilarious thing I remember was watching a classmate play SWAT 3 on my pc (the first of the series to be in 3D). He unwittingly and repeatedly tried to look round corners to check for armed suspects by actually turning his head and looking onto the monitor from an acute angle.

[Redbliss]

I love watching other people play video games. The only exception for me are online shooters. I cant be in the same room as anyone that is playing an online shooter because I will start telling that person what they should do and I just get really bothered when I watch them die because they made a terrible tactical decision. My brother loves to play MW2, but when I am in the room I always get on his case and tell him he makes poor decisions and stuff like that, and he ends up getting mad at me. I love watching people play other games and I usually get some enjoyment out of watching others play, but I cant do it for online FPS games.

[Forbin]

I love watching other people play video games. The only exception for me are online shooters. I cant be in the same room as anyone that is playing an online shooter because I will start telling that person what they should do and I just get really bothered when I watch them die because they made a terrible tactical decision. My brother loves to play MW2, but when I am in the room I always get on his case and tell him he makes poor decisions and stuff like that, and he ends up getting mad at me. I love watching people play other games and I usually get some enjoyment out of watching others play, but I cant do it for online FPS games.

Watching other people play shooters becomes tolerable when they become good. There's nothing quite like spectating somebody amazing totally owning the shit out of somebody else amazing.

[Xeneth]

Here's the fucked up part, I love to have somebody watch me play games.

There's something about playing a game while somebody watches that makes me enjoy a game a lot more, maybe it's like I am, in a way, performing for that person.

I don't know, anybody want to give a rational explanation?

As touched on in the first page of the thread... It really can be a form of performance art, especially when the player changes the way they're playing the game in response to the observer's presence. To expand on an earlier example, when someone was watching me play GTA 3, I started changing up the camera controls in response to their reactions to the various explosions, to the point where I was making "Bruckheimer" shots by crouching and holding the "look behind" button to frame the main character against the backdrop of what he had wrought, something I probably wouldn't have even thought to do unless I had an audience. Feedback loops like that are huge reasons why people still do, (and always will!) go to concerts/sporting events/etc. in person, even when more comprehensive and detailed viewpoints of those same events can be experienced by proxy. People are like experiential amps picking each other up within proximity...

I'm glad my earlier rage brought a few other Thumbs into this awesome thread after it's initial burn, at any rate... no impressions on my idea of more games silently capturing replay data and forwarding it along to developers automatically?

Was curious to know if any gamers see that idea as being invasive or inappropriate. I know a lot of people can get a little nervous about "being watched" in a lot of different forms, which is why I suggested that there be a disclaimer, something like...

[On detection that the system is indeed connected to the internet]

"This game may capture some anonymous usage data and use your internet connection to send it back to developers for analysis in order to improve future play experiences. Is this okay? [YES/NO]

[Regardless of selection]

"If at any point you change your mind, anonymous usage datamining can be toggled on or off at any time in the options menu."

I think detailed play statistics that drilled down to actual replay data could be an invaluable tool to developers. "Says here that a whole 10% of our participating users never progressed past THIS point... well, let's fire up a random selection of those playthroughs and see if most were having trouble, or if that's just where they lost interest!"

It's also more than possible from a technical standpoint, as replay data files tend to basically be coded text containing just the stream of unit and interaction data for playback in the engine that created them. (As seen in most competitive RTSs and, say, Halo 3) The main technical problem with them is that changes to the engine can render old files corrupted or unplayable, but that applies more to MMOs and other patch-heavy games than single player experiences. (By far the suggested targets, as people more consistently record and show off genuine multiplayer experiences, and the nature of competitive games means developers can jump on the servers and SEE how players are interacting with their product firsthand)

[Forbin]

Xeneth, that's been done for years.

[Grim_Wreeper]

I grew up watching my big brother (actual big brother, not some Simpsons awesome guy) play games. Strange thing is that years later I'll still sit down and watch him play games, but can't really stand to watch anyone else do it.

I've noticed reciently that it's because he and I play games in the same way. (ie. move in the same way around the world and so on.) I think I was just so influenced by watching him play that I naturally picked up his playing style!

[Xeneth]

Xeneth, that's been done for years.

It has? Single player games automatically send demo files back to the developers for analysis? I wouldn't even know where to begin to verify that, Google-wise. Any specific known examples I could look into? Keep in mind I'm not talking about the existence of demo files, I'm theorycrafting ways to reasonably organize and deliver them to interested parties. The framework and tools would be sticking points as it's too much information to take in 1:1. The closest I've seen are the kill/death heat maps and charts in FPSs like Halo and TF2, but as I said multiplayer games are far less of a developer mystery in terms of usage.

[Nachimir]

Was curious to know if any gamers see that idea as being invasive or inappropriate. I know a lot of people can get a little nervous about "being watched" in a lot of different forms, which is why I suggested that there be a disclaimer, something like...

[On detection that the system is indeed connected to the internet]

"This game may capture some anonymous usage data and use your internet connection to send it back to developers for analysis in order to improve future play experiences. Is this okay? [YES/NO]

[Regardless of selection]

"If at any point you change your mind, anonymous usage datamining can be toggled on or off at any time in the options menu."

This isn't so far beyond "Some game features may upload data to the Rockstar Social Club" and so on.

I'm normally pretty hot on privacy, but this is a case in which I don't care. Watching the way I game is unlikely to affect anything of consequence in my life. For instance, if I were to goof off while I'm supposed to be working and replays automatically popped up in my boss' RSS feeds I think I'd deserve what I got. The only times I've ever been judged for gaming are by people who hate games, or people who like to abuse someone because they aren't at the same level of obsessive FPS sperglordness.

Thinking of that, I'd actually love something that recorded XBL game demos, along with people's voices so they can replay it years later: "Wow Grampa, you were a dick!"

[Patters]

It has? Single player games automatically send demo files back to the developers for analysis? I wouldn't even know where to begin to verify that, Google-wise. Any specific known examples I could look into? Keep in mind I'm not talking about the existence of demo files, I'm theorycrafting ways to reasonably organize and deliver them to interested parties. The framework and tools would be sticking points as it's too much information to take in 1:1. The closest I've seen are the kill/death heat maps and charts in FPSs like Halo and TF2, but as I said multiplayer games are far less of a developer mystery in terms of usage.

Halo 3 does it. I think Bungie also keeps theater files from matches played for a certain amount of time.

[Xeneth]

Halo 3 does it. I think Bungie also keeps theater files from matches played for a certain amount of time.

That's a good point, multiplayer games seem to have the whole datamining thing down, but in Halo's case the single player campaign benefits from the same tools! Hilarious that some part of my brain doesn't think of Halo as a single player experience after all this time. I wonder if any of the level designers watch some of the campaign replays in the interest of honing their craft. Bungie seems like the kind of company where progressive/obsessive things like that might happen.

Much as twitch-oriented and multiplayer games seem to make good use of the technology, I have yet to hear about something like a platformer or an adventure game doing the same. There are genres where things like the level design and player hinting are basically the whole experience, whereas a poorly designed FPS environment can still feel quite good due to the moment to moment mechanics being satisfying.

I still see so many gaffes in really polished big titles that make me wonder about designer perspective and playtesting is all- Off the top of my head,

. (Fittingly, I didn't have any problem with this section at all, but the overwhelmingly negative feedback goes to show that they needed to design to a broader audience there!) I imagine that watching people play it in addition to all the press about that part being confusing would be like the difference between being told that a dish you prepared "sucked" and having a fellow chef look at your recipe and make detailed suggestions. Edited July 5, 2010 by Xeneth

[Chris]

Valve also does detailed tracking of player activity in their games. Sometimes they compile and share that data publicly on the Steam website and it's already really interesting; you can see things like heat maps showing the frequency of deaths at specific locations on the various maps, and so on. The last time I remember them doing that I think it was for the Half-Life 2 episodes, but maybe they released some of it for Left 4 Dead as well.

In general, that kind of tracking is becoming increasingly common. Bungie and Valve are probably a bit ahead of the game in terms of sophistication and ability to dynamically format that data for public consumption, and Rockstar seems to be in that ballpark as well, but I'm sure many developers do it more quietly.

I don't know how many have the ability to load up replays instantly; given the massive number of people who play their games, these developers probably use this kind of data more in aggregated form, and rely on smaller-scale playtests to observe more detailed behavior. You could certainly use the large-scale data as a guideline for what scenarios to playtest.

[elmuerte]

Heatmaps are indeed quite interesting for developers. But they are useless at the time the game is released, unless you really are going to rebalance the maps.

Epic added support for gathering these kinds of information (heatmaps, player behavior, system config) over a year ago to UE3. So I'm sure a lot of developers are going to use it for their games (that use UE3). Of course in most cases this information won't be made public. But I am interested to see overall player behavior. Specially in single player games it's interesting to see where a lot of people struggled.

[Patters]

Heatmaps are indeed quite interesting for developers. But they are useless at the time the game is released, unless you really are going to rebalance the maps.

Epic added support for gathering these kinds of information (heatmaps, player behavior, system config) over a year ago to UE3. So I'm sure a lot of developers are going to use it for their games (that use UE3).

Bungie I know do just that. There have been a ton of changes. Such as:

• On Narrows the rocket launcher was replaced with a bubble shield and the shotgun with rockets.
  
• Shield doors were removed from Snowbound
  
• Blocking off the lofts in The Pit due to camping
  
• Other weapon replacements, edits, or removals
  
• a LOT of spawn changes.
  

[Nachimir]

I don't know how many have the ability to load up replays instantly

The original Dawn of War allowed export and loading of replays, and there was a definite community around this and the ladders. The biggest problem was that the data itself was very stripped down to minimise file size, and relied on all the stats in the game to reproduce many things at runtime. As a result, patches always made replays of games from older versions unplayable.

[Forbin]

A lot of it isn't replay data per se, but tracking of information that's more suitable for analysis. Even some iphone app developers are tracking information like how much time the average user takes to finish a level, when people are most likely to quit, where people die most frequently, etc.

The beautiful thing is that it's been done so well that nobody really notices it's being done. In an age where so many developers can't manage syncing cloud files or verifying legitimate copies without uninterrupted connections I'm glad some people know how to manage data without interrupting user experience.

[Gazpacho Soup]

I'm mildly surprised that throughout this whole thread no one mentioned Let's Plays.

A LP being, in a nutshell, someone else playing a game.

They can range from the informative.

To the completely. Hilarious. and ridiculous.

[lobotomy42]

Anyone used OnLive? The coolest feature of that service is the ability to jump in and watch literally anyone currently playing any game on the service and, well, watch. Since the player may not even know that anyone is watching, it becomes a weirdly voyeuristic experience.

[Patters]

XdkDjsBiO58

This is really quite interesting.

[SiN]

That was very interesting. Thanks for linking it.

[Thompson]

I'm mildly surprised that throughout this whole thread no one mentioned Let's Plays.

A LP being, in a nutshell, someone else playing a game.

They can range from the informative.

To the completely. Hilarious. and ridiculous.

You're right, I love good let's plays. The commentators make them so worth it, the best example I know of is Giantbomb's Endurance Runs.

Anyway, I went to Freelance Astronauts and tried to watch QWOP, while I couldn't watch the video because my internet is too slow for that stream I did spot the best fake ad of all time.

[Xeneth]

"Let's play" style stuff got a little bit of lip service on the first page, but I don't think we were calling them that or linking any specifics yet.

That Quake championship really was fun to watch- If you're interested in seeing the three matches that led up to the one they're covering up there...

U6NuMyXw1Hs

[The first match begins around 24:00]