Fallout 3

[miffy495]

Well, it's out. Grabbed it up at work today, as seems to be the trend when a big game drops on a day when I work. Only played the intro bit so far, but I gotta say it really impressed me. Actually being born as your character, deciding what you'll look like "when you grow up" was a really interesting way of doing the customization. Then learning to walk with your father and celebrating your 10th birthday party. Just a really cool way of handling the tutorials. I always found it weird when a game has to teach a grown person how to walk, and this really impressed me.

Oh and

at the party when I talked to the old lady, I'm not sure if I was supposed to laugh when she said "My my my. It seems like only yesterday your daddy came..." but I did. A lot. I guess I'm just a horrible person.

[Scrobbs]

Face like a plasterer's radio...

[Cigol]

I'm going to let you in on a little insider secret; it's Oblivion with guns!

...only, not in a good way. The combat is pants, the movement is shitty and the exploration is dull - the engine is clunky and ill-suited to enjoying exploring the world. That said I likes it. The opening is also sort of faithful in tone to the original Fallouts, my only problem would be that like Oblivion you're expected to shoot your way to the end of the game and speechcraft will only get you so far.

I like that if you stand completely still it evokes all those concept images, the trouble is when you start moving (especially in third person) or interact with other people or enemies it's clearly still Oblivion with it's super shitty animation system. I mean, really fucking shitty.

Battles are surprisingly faithful to the original 90's Fallout. The VAT's system works - and believe me you'll use it because normal combat is depressingly bad - but the biggest similarity comes in how all the enemies run mindlessly towards you (which was, curiously, how Oblivion handled things as well, hmm). Heh. Whatever. I'm not impressed by combat one bit. They gave us a first person perspective and they completely wasted it on psuedo-turn based combat against dumb enemies. How's that for a mindfuck. I suppose it was easier for them to sidestep combat AI in a post apocalyptic world and just water it down into a shooting gallery - right? [/cynicism] Oh of course not - it was obviously a homage to the originals...

The start of the game is the highlight so far, the rest of it is very Oblivion'ish. I suppose if you liked Oblivion (which I did) that's fair enough, if you loved the original Fallouts and wanted a worthy successor however (which I again did) it's too fucking bad because this isn't it.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yikes. Thanks for your review. It's a bit disappointing to hear, though.

I really felt that Oblivion was one of the most overrated games ever... but then again, I never got that far into it. I tend to like plot and good characters and Oblivion had the worst NPC "personality" system in gaming history... and getting people to like you was sooo dull and repetitive.

The plot was terrible (entering Oblivion was sooo boring), the "mythology" unbelievably bad and just didn't see the point of endless sprawling nothing (although it sure looked pretty).

(Maybe you get "hooked" after a while, but it seems that it only had combat to offer in terms of gameplay.)

Sooooo... taking that into account, will I (dis)like Fallout 3 just as much?

[Scrobbs]

So they haven't sorted the AI? I remember being put off it when I saw a video a few months ago, and a programmer was demonstrating the comabt system...and the enemies did exactly what you said above Cigol - Ran towards you, the geezer shot them in the arm, they backed off a bit, then came at you again, ready for a shotgun to the face. Poor.

[miffy495]

Wow. That's way harsher than I was going to be. I really like this game, to be frank. I booted it up around 9 o'clock and didn't turn it off until 4:45 am. I'm very tired right now. I haven't had to get into any combat with people aside from random encounters while doing quests myself, always finding dialogue options that are allowing me to avoid combat. Maybe you're just playing too aggressively? Even angrily going after a kidnap victim ended with him happily walking out of the kidnapper's camp and me getting an offer to join their order. I really like the way that they did the world, the people and voices seem much more believable than Oblivion, and in general, I'd say this is a fantastic game.

But hey, if you want to hate, be my guest.

[Chris]

I didn't get into Oblivion, but I love Fallout 3 so far.

I hate the character animation, and the game takes an immersion hit for me as a result, but the sheer variety of possibilities--while maintaining an impressive writing and voice acting standard, a pleasant surprise after Oblivion--is exciting to me. Speaking with people about the conversations they've had and the choices they've made, it's just awesome realizing the range.

The engine feels like Oblivion to me, but the experience doesn't at all, at least not the experience I had with that game.

[Cigol]

I honestly thought my post was pretty upbeat about Fallout 3, but I guess I'm coming at it from a different angle to you guys - I also perhaps didn't place enough emphasis on the parts where I said I actually like it, because rest assured I'm enjoying the game. My post was just using colourful language to draw attention to its flaws, and I don't think I was harsh in doing so either.

This is essentially Oblivion MkII so improvements to the dialogue system for example are par for the course (I mean, they couldn't have made it any worse could they). Stuff like that isn't a bonus to me, it's a necessity. It wouldn't be a Fallout game without dialogue or choices so I personally don't see it as a great achievement.

I haven't had to get into any combat with people aside from random encounters while doing quests myself, always finding dialogue options that are allowing me to avoid combat. Maybe you're just playing too aggressively?

Did you just run away from Vault security personnel? I had to kill about 4 or 5 people to escape in the beginning - and I'm colloquially referred to as a goody two shoes so it's not like I'm going in guns blazing. Sure you can talk your way out of some encounters, as I said it's a 'Fallout' game after all, but it's still heavily combat orientated as a game from what I've played so far. It sounds like you've played more than me though so maybe it gets better as it progresses?

(EDIT: God damnit, I accidentally edited this post instead of replying to it. Just restored to its original state. -Chris)

Edited October 29, 2008 by Chris

[Chris]

I honestly thought my post was pretty upbeat about Fallout 3, but I guess I'm coming at it from a different angle to you guys - I also perhaps didn't place enough emphasis on the parts where I said I actually like it, because rest assured I'm enjoying the game. My post was just using colourful language to draw attention to its flaws, and I don't think I was harsh in doing so either.

I thought your post was fine, I didn't see anyone taking you to task for it. It definitely didn't come across as upbeat though.

This is essentially Oblivion MkII so improvements to the dialogue system for example are par for the course (I mean, they couldn't have made it any worse could they). Stuff like that isn't a bonus to me, it's a necessity. It wouldn't be a Fallout game without dialogue or choices so I personally don't see it as a great achievement.

That seems a little unfair--if somebody does a good job at something, it shouldn't be brushed aside simply because of an official lineage that is really only legal in nature to begin with. I'm not making a call on whether it's a "bonus" or a "necessity," I'm judging how it actually plays and feels. It's of course fair to compare it to the past Fallout games, but if it was a positive element of those games, why wouldn't it be a positive element of this one as well?

[Scrobbs]

I guess time moves on - what was once a praiseworthy feature becomes de-rigeur. Having said that, I do see your point, and that if something is done well, no matter how old, it maybe should be noted - if only to distinguish it from the great load of cack-handed efforts of what might be charitably be called games out there.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hmmm. Ok, this is sounding more promising now!

[Cigol]

It's of course fair to compare it to the past Fallout games, but if it was a positive element of those games, why wouldn't it be a positive element of this one as well?

It's not that I don't appreciate the advances but rather expect them from an RPG, let alone one bearing the Fallout license. Placed under a microscope I'll happily acknowledge and applaud those improvements but it's easy to get sidetracked when other deficiencies (like combat AI) are stealing the limelight. That said, the dialogue is a lot better than in Oblivion.

[Scrobbs]

Hmm. It seems that there are lots of people whinging about SecuROM as well for this title.

Sorry for bringing that old chestnut up.

[lobotomy42]

I pre-ordered this, but almost cancelled it about a week ago. Man, I hope I don't regret this choice. I really liked Fallout. (Although I don't think I ever got to the very end of either game...)

As an aside:

I've been reading the reviews from all the standard sources. It seems that, on average, the game gets compared to Oblivion about 8 or 9 times in any given review, and the original Fallout games about once at most. Does this bother anyone else? It's like we all collectively decided to review "Fallout 3 as sequel to Oblivion" instead of "Fallout 3 as sequel to Fallout 2" or "Fallout 3 as its own damn game."

[Chris]

I guess time moves on - what was once a praiseworthy feature becomes de-rigeur. Having said that, I do see your point, and that if something is done well, no matter how old, it maybe should be noted - if only to distinguish it from the great load of cack-handed efforts of what might be charitably be called games out there.

It's not de rigeur, though. Very few games actually do this.

Also, in the modern era when you have to budget every single one of those decisions with all that multiplied voice acting cost and other potential asset creation, it's pretty amazing. Bethesda is charging $60 for this, same as anyone else would charge for a straight up on-rails game with only one meaningful path. If they weren't independent with the means, I don't know how they could pull this off and still make what turned out as a pretty polished game--it's quite a feat to do both in this climate.

But yes, what you say is also true. I mean, just as a random example, clearly it would be absurd to withhold praise of great level design simply because many other games have had great level design.

[toblix]

I just started this, and it seemed like the opening sequences (party, test) had a trillion dialog sequences playing out simultaneously.

[Chris]

I just started this, and it seemed like the opening sequences (party, test) had a trillion dialog sequences playing out simultaneously.

Yeah, that's particularly common during the Vault intro and it was really irritating.

[Jayel]

I wanted to get the collector's edition with the lunch box, but the lunch box is too small to fit my tupperwares. So now I can't decide whether to get it or not.

[Wrestlevania]

Given the unavoidable and constant Oblivion comparisons, I'm actually finding the idea of Fallout 3 more compelling--not less. And that's coming from someone who couldn't stand Oblivion on any of the 3 times I threw myself at it wholesale.

The setting, weapons and characters hold far more interest for me than swords and sorcery ever would, but that's obviously a deeply personal preference. What's more relevant, perhaps, is the idea of seeing how Bethesda's sources (the original franchise, books like The Road, etc.) have fed into the world and seeing how those play out and affect the experience.

To be honest, I'm seriously torn between getting Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 at the moment. On the face of it, Far Cry 2 sounds more unusual and divergent, but I think Fallout 3 - for any number of reasons - is perhaps too important to miss at launch. There are already a dozen or so minor spoilers in this thread alone that make me want to play it urgently--before everything's out of the bag.

[Cigol]

If you like RPG's and you aren't repulsed by Oblivion (which is an epidemic on the internet) then Fallout 3 is a must have title. Far Cry 2 tried to do something and for the most part 'failed'. Fallout 3 didn't try to do anything, it built upon the success of its predecessor - and that's why it's constantly compared to Oblivion. A lot of Fallout fans will disagree with me but I think they've done enough to satisfy the license.

Having played it some more I'm liking the approach to hacking computers. It's fun working out what the password is and I'm guessing the difficulty is dictated by your skills in the relevant areas. I thought it was a neat if superfluous addition anyway

I just started this, and it seemed like the opening sequences (party, test) had a trillion dialogue sequences playing out simultaneously.

The sound engine is pretty lame on my end. I have a pretty expensive sound-card so I didn't expect to hear everything coming from the second floor as if it were on the first floor. Not a gamebreaker, but jarring. That party would have worked (as in, been frikking cool) if there was proper sound dynamics in play.

[miffy495]

How exactly does the hacking work? I couldn't get the hang of that. At any rate, I just spent the evening with a friend who'd been playing for about the same amount of time I had and swapped stories. After the tutorials, we'd played completely different games. I'd wandered to the West, had run dangerously low on ammo after my first crippling super-mutant encounter and had become used to using baseball bats and this antique Chinese officer's sword I'd found while scavenging a (mostly) abandoned vault I stumbled upon. He'd gone East, found a massive weapons cache, and had been taking part in a war he'd wandered into the midst of. This has impressed the hell out of me. We gave tips for how to find each other's biggest landmarks and the things that had wowed us the most and each went on our way. I can't wait to fire up the game again and check some of these out, but I fear that won't be until Monday night.

Still, damn I'm impressed.

[Wrestlevania]

HI'd wandered to the West, had run dangerously low on ammo after my first crippling super-mutant encounter and had become used to using baseball bats and this antique Chinese officer's sword I'd found while scavenging a (mostly) abandoned vault I stumbled upon. He'd gone East, found a massive weapons cache, and had been taking part in a war he'd wandered into the midst of.

...fucking hell, I must have this game!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Lol, that sounds VERY cool!

[Erkki]

Well, this thread and some positive reviews made me buy it on Steam. Unlocks in about an hour. Can't wait to dive into the wasteland again. I'm planning on focusing on speechcraft and avoiding combat as much as possible.

[Wrestlevania]

My wife just picked me up a copy in Sainsbury's; they're selling standard retail copies on Xbox 360 for £29 a pop. Bargain!

Just need my 360 to arrive now...