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SecretAsianMan

Stumbling around Hyrule - A Link to the Past Randomizer

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Lately I've been getting into watching A Link to the Past Randomizer races and it's reached the point that I want to try this myself.  For anyone unfamiliar, ALTTPR takes the base game and randomizes all the items among the chests in the game.  This means that any item could be anywhere (with some exception, there is a logic in the randomizer that prevents unbeatable scenarios).  There's also a number of variants that shuffles dungeon keys as well or requires all dungeons to be beaten or requires the use of major sequence breaking glitches/exploits.  There's another randomizer that combines it with the Super Metroid randomizer and makes you jump back and forth between the two games.

 

Since I'm a baby I'll be starting with ALTTPR on easy difficulty (I get more hearts, all items are available, enemies don't hit quite as hard, the randomizer logic won't require me to perform any major glitches or exploits).  I even went as far as getting a USB SNES controller.  If anyone wants to watch me get lost and confused, I'll be streaming it as well.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/secretasianmann

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I should probably explain about the tracker a bit.  It's not part of the randomizer itself, it's a script running in a browser window that lets me keep track of what I have and where I can go.  I have to manually add each item when I get it as well as check off the locations on the map.  The version I'm using also automatically indicates what areas are accessible based on my equipment which is nice for a newbie like me.  The abbreviations on the bottom two rows above the map are for the dungeons.  Swamp Palace, Skull Woods, Thieves Town, Ice Palace, Misery Mire, Turtle Rock, Eastern Palace, Desert Palace, and Tower of Hera.  Misery Mire and Turtle Rock require medallions to access in the vanilla game, but those too have been shuffled around which is why they're on the tracker.  The green pendent is tracked independently of the other two because the green one lets you get an item from the old man near Eastern Palace (the boots in vanilla LttP).  The fifth and sixth crystal are also significant because they unlock the big bomb in the dark world which you can use at the pyramid.

 

One thing about the tracker I'm using I don't like is it doesn't track items that don't unlock things like the bug catching net or the cane of byrna.  It's not a huge deal but I can see myself forgetting I have those things when they might be useful.

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Last part.  Hopefully the audio sucks less.  I also got a better tracker.  I'm going to keep playing but I'm not sure I'll record any more unless someone wants to see it.

 

 

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The audio is definitely better!

 

I've never played this game (or any Zeldas before BOTW) so I have no idea what's been randomized or modded here. Except I'm like 99% sure that's not Link's original outfit. ¬_¬

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I watched some of these and enjoyed them but I know basically zero about the game so I don't think I fully appreciated what was going on!

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4 hours ago, Henke said:

The audio is definitely better!

 

I've never played this game (or any Zeldas before BOTW) so I have no idea what's been randomized or modded here. Except I'm like 99% sure that's not Link's original outfit. ¬_¬

 

2 hours ago, Ben X said:

I watched some of these and enjoyed them but I know basically zero about the game so I don't think I fully appreciated what was going on!

 

Literally every item is not where it's supposed to be and the ROM is based on the Japanese 1.0 version which includes some glitches/tricks that were patched in later versions.  The randomizer generator requires this version and it's the preferred one for speedrunning anyway because of the tricks.  One example is the thing I do where I perform the spin attack then touch a staircase and move very quickly.

 

The randomizer really only appeals to people who either played the original game or like speedrunning; in my case it's both.  I could do additional runs and explain more things but that probably wouldn't make it any more interesting to watch.  I highly recommend anyone try the original game if that's something you can do because it's a fantastic game.  If someone is interested in trying the randomizer I could help get that going too.  I'm not an expert by any means but I know enough about the base game and the randomizer that I could definitely get you started.

 

Also the randomizer includes about 70 sprites you can substitute for Link.  For my first run I chose Pride Link in support of a friend.  In my current game I'm a Squirtle.

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Hey, I've just gotten into the LTTPR scene as well!  I stumbled across it through a YouTube channel and found it to be fascinating, so I've been playing it through a SNES emulator on my phone.  What a wild way to revisit the game!  You don't realize how jarring it is to take the game out of order until you do it.  There's nothing like the satisfaction of finding a major item in a chest when you weren't expecting anything.

 

It definitely requires an above-average-to-expert level knowledge of the base game.  You have to know where EVERY chest in the game is, because otherwise, you could just end up not finding the item you need to finish the game.  During my first run, the fire rod was hidden in the Ice Palace, so I had to find the Bombos medallion and stock up on magic potions until I found the rod.  I'd searched EVERYWHERE else for it!

 

The best part is that every run is completely different.  You'll have different items at different points in each playthrough.  You really have to be quick on your feet for strategy.  God help you if you don't find the lantern early...

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On 12/6/2018 at 3:18 PM, GavinTheAlmighty said:

The best part is that every run is completely different.  You'll have different items at different points in each playthrough.  You really have to be quick on your feet for strategy.  God help you if you don't find the lantern early...

 

If you're playing on the no major glitches setting, then the logic will never require you to traverse a dark room without the lantern.  That means that if an item is required to progress is hidden behind a dark room then the lantern will also be required and can be found outside them.  Some of the better runners know how to navigate the dark rooms without the lantern which lets them sequence break a bit but I'm not there yet.  The one that always bugs me is the boots.  Finding them last means you spend the entire game walking instead of running.

 

As you get more familiar with the chest locations you soon learn how to route things for efficient item gathering but even then the game can still mess with you.  I think that's why I like it so much, it's a fun puzzle to solve that changes every time you play.  It's "I need the hookshot to beat swamp palace but the hookshot is in the library which needs the boots that are on the island in the lake which requires the mirror and the flippers..."

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I've also been into LttP randomizer runs (and that dope Super Metroid / LttP randomizer run from GDQx a few months ago), but I kind of wish that I knew LttP better in order to try it out. I've beaten the game a handful of times, but I've never sought out 100% of the items, and my knowledge of any of the dungeons (or those giant rooms full of treasure chests) is a little lacking. 

 

I'd love to see the logic that goes into the randomization - you mentioned there was an Easy mode where no major glitches are required. Is there a place where this is all set out?  

 

Edit: Oh, I guess I should just go and look this up myself! There are some resources online here

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17 hours ago, RubixsQube said:

I've also been into LttP randomizer runs (and that dope Super Metroid / LttP randomizer run from GDQx a few months ago), but I kind of wish that I knew LttP better in order to try it out. I've beaten the game a handful of times, but I've never sought out 100% of the items, and my knowledge of any of the dungeons (or those giant rooms full of treasure chests) is a little lacking. 

 

I'd love to see the logic that goes into the randomization - you mentioned there was an Easy mode where no major glitches are required. Is there a place where this is all set out?  

 

Edit: Oh, I guess I should just go and look this up myself! There are some resources online here

 

The SM/LttP run was really great.  It's what finally got me to start looking into playing the game myself, although I'm not close to trying that particular iteration yet.  Despite my love for SM I'm not nearly as familiar with the layout of the game as I am with LttP.  I'm also extremely lacking in the technical proficiency required.

 

You've probably already learned some of this by now but I'll go over what I know anyway. 

 

Easy is a difficulty setting rather than a category.  Difficulty impacts things like how hard enemies hit, frequency of item drops, and how potions work, among other things.  It impacts the logic a bit in that easier difficulties put more beneficial items in the pool while harder difficulties do the opposite.  For example on the easy difficulty you start with 6 hearts instead of 3 and there are 8 swords placed in the item pool instead of 4 (if you find a sword location after getting the gold sword then you get rupees instead).  Expert limits you to the Master Sword and no mail. 

 

Most of what I know about the randomizer logic comes from the mouths of runners and there's still a lot I don't know.  I only play on the no major glitches (NMG) setting so I have no idea what the glitch logic is.  Major glitches are categorized as things that allow major sequence breaks in the normal game, mostly things like wall clips.  There's a couple minor glitches like fake flippers and hovering that can also allow some sequence breaks but I don't think they're considered major glitches because you can't skip entire sections of the game, just get a few items early or bypass a single puzzle.  These will never be required by the logic either though.

 

One of the bigger blocks to things is the dark rooms that require the lamp.  I mentioned it before but NMG will never require these rooms to be traversed without the lamp.  For example, in the regular game to access Death Mountain you have to enter a cave where you escort an old man.  The old man will give you an item which is in the randomizer but because he's located in a dark room he will NEVER have the lamp.  But if he has something like the Fire Rod and Turtle Rock or Skull Woods is a crystal dungeon, then it means the lamp is a required item.  It is still possible to get through the dark rooms without the lamp if you know what you're doing and many runners suggest learning how to do at least some of them.  Doing this puts you outside the randomizer's sequence a bit but won't break it wide open.

 

Other always required items include the Master Sword, Bow and Silver Arrows, the Moon Pearl, and either the Lamp or the Fire Rod (not necessarily both).  There are ways around those things (such as fighting Ganon without silver arrows, a technique known as silverless) but again these will never be part of the logic.

 

The sword, gloves, and mails are progressive items.  When you find one of these items, the game gives you the next upgrade in sequence.  Taking the sword as an example, the first time you find a sword it will be the Fighter's Sword, then the Master Sword, then Tempered, then Gold.  It will always be in that order no matter when you open chests.

 

Dungeons will always contain a big key, map, compass, and all the small keys.  The boss holds an item and it might include a dungeon specific one.  This means it's sometimes possible that you can't open every chest in the dungeon but if that's the case it means you won't need to.  As an example here neither Skull Woods nor Swamp Palace require the big key to access the boss so it's possible the big key is inside the big chest.  If you know how many items are in a dungeon and you find everything except the dungeon items then you know there's nothing else there and you can leave if it's a blue/red pendant dungeon without missing anything (unless it's a pedestal seed).  Alternatively if you find the dungeon items right away then you know that every other chest will have items.

 

That's already a lot of info and there's a ton of other subtleties that I'm still learning such as how to "read" the logic.  Like if the game gives you early flippers, hookshot, and moon pearl it's probably pushing you toward completing Swamp Palace even if its just a pendant dungeon.  I'd actually love to make another video where I explain a lot of this but there's are so many people with way better knowledge than me.  I'd probably end up getting a lot wrong.

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