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Rob Zacny

Episode 378: EUIV and Rights of Man

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Three Moves Ahead 378:

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EUIV and Rights of Man
Nothing is certain in this world except death, taxes, and Paradox expansions. Time marches on and EUIV, the elder statesman of the Paradox stable, the well-rounded workhorse, the stalwart representation of all things Paradox...ish... has continued to grow and improve. Guest host Sean Sands talks with Rowan Kaiser and T.J. Hafer about Rights of Man and the current state of the game. Where does EUIV go from here? Does Paradox just keep adding features forever? Would that be a bad thing? Why are estates so lame? Why isn't Victoria III a thing yet? 


Europa Universalis IV, Crusader Kings II, Hearts of Iron IV


 

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Hey all!  I really enjoyed this week's episode.  Good job guest hosting as well, Sean!  I love the Paradox games however I have barely played them or scratched the surface of what they offer (collectively around 40-50 hours).  I love the idea of what they are able to do and simulate and the stories that come from the games themselves.  The games are a mess to figure out but each time I pick up and try to play CK2 or EUIV I learn a little more and a little more.

 

I recently started up trying EUIV again and I have enjoyed figuring out the game a little more than last time.  The barrier to these games is so high though and it doesn't help with the constant flows of expansions.  I, personally, have a hard time wanting to purchase the expansions when I feel like I've barely touched the vanilla base games.  Does anyone else feel that way?  Any thoughts on this problem I have?  I partly feel like I wouldn't really appreciate the expansions if I don't have any idea what issue they actually address or mechanic they expand.

 

I'm also happy that the Paradox style has started to creep into other games.  For instance, I think much of the strategy layer of Total War: Attila and Charlemagne borrowed from CK2 and EUIV with respect to governor and other cabinet like positions.  Also, I believe that Massive Chalice borrowed some from CK2 with the genealogy aspects.  I apologize if I project some of this "Paradox Creep" incorrectly but that is something I thought.

 

Anyway, I am really happy the Paradox games exist to allow for simulations of this sort.  When Civ 5 first launched there was an ongoing debate about playing Civ as a board game, i.e. something to be won, versus playing Civ as a history simulator and fudging with the simulation; I believe that Paradox games gear towards the later.  Nonetheless, thanks for the great show!   

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I fully get the feeling of not wanting to get into an expansion before coming to grips with the base game. However, with a game like EUIV I'm sure there are many people who just want to play it through once, and kind of be done with it. And I also get that you'd want the 'complete' experience for that.

 

In EUIV I feel, thanks to the free patches, the difference between the expansions and the base game isn't as huge as one might imagine. There probably isn't a single mechanic that has stayed the same since launch, and there are a whole bunch of new mechanics, all in the patched base game. I usually recommend that people do not buy any of the expansions, since the patched base game is so expansive already. If after playing a game you feel like getting back into, then look at what the expansions add, and choose what you want.

 

Conversely it gets kind of annoying if you want 'all the features'. To get all the diplomatic options, all the possible event chains etc. you need to buy almost all of the expansions.

 

Paradox's success has certainly had an impact, even if I'm not entirely convinced the lineage is necessarily exactly that when it comes to Total War. I've idly wondered if in 10 years we will have a 3MA show where Rob will realize he's come to hate the grand strategy genre which just keeps on trying to recreate CKII.

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On 12/25/2016 at 5:58 PM, unimural said:

Paradox's success has certainly had an impact, even if I'm not entirely convinced the lineage is necessarily exactly that when it comes to Total War. I've idly wondered if in 10 years we will have a 3MA show where Rob will realize he's come to hate the grand strategy genre which just keeps on trying to recreate CKII.

 

This is an interesting point.  Similar to the Space 4-X genre episodes 3MA has done in the past where they lament Alpha Centari, we could get an episode where a grizzled Rob, Rowan, and a Troy, who now looks like Cable from X-Men, talk about CK4's inability to bring back the feelings of CK2.  

 

Oh and BTW -- I have definitely fallen for EU4 at this point.  It has taken up the lion's share of my gaming while over the holidays and time off from work.  I've been playing, reading up on guides, and watching the youtube series, "Filthy [Robot] Learns EU4 With Arumba."  There goes the next hundred hours of my gaming life.

 

I've got half the DLC's in my cart from the Steam Sale right now consisting of Art of War (which I understand to be a must have), Common Sense (another near mandatory pack), and Wealth of Nations.  I think I will forgo Rights of Man until a later date, though.

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