Knights of Honor

[Erkki]

The medieval setting has been done to death in games, but this strategy game just got me interested. It seems to be a mix of Civilisation and Total War. I was never good at either of those and only played them a little, but I hope I'll like this one more. Especially as it also reminds me of Seven Kingdoms a bit, which is probably my favourite RTS games ever.

Somewhy I really want to get back to playing strategy games. Haven't played any for years practically, except demos or so.

In Knights of Honor your goal will be to conquer all of medieval Europe and you'll do so from a high level, but can also take command of armies if you want to, similar to the Total War games.

Here's a Gamespot preview and the game's official website (beware of high pitched intro sound! )

Oh, and the game just went gold a few days ago!

[Marek]

Oh wow. I've just written a review of Rise of Nations (coming soon exclusively on Idle Thumbs!!!) and it kinda seems like Kinghts of Honor has done the things right that Rise of Nations did wrong...

It also has a really good graphics style, by the look of those screenshots. It looks kinda like those miniature you see in museums or at tourist information booths, or like a landscape for model trains. (Erm hard to explain?) The 2D art for the interface also looks gorgeous!

Thanks for pointing this game out. I'm kind of itching to get it.

[Erkki]

You're welcome. And may your itch be scratched.

[Erkki]

I guess I'll wait for your review to hear what Rise of Nations did wrong... I just read GameSpot's review of it and they seem to think it did everything right (9.3 and an editor's choice too). Now I got interested in that game as well... Damn the internet, I say!

What was strange about the review is that it mentioned some features as novelties ("new concepts it introduces" was the exact quote), which I think I've seen in more than one strategy game of the few that I've sampled (but not played much) over the years. Some I think have been in games from 7-8 years ago. Like caravans, cities and national borders etc.. Or maybe he spoke of the application of those features to today's typical RTS game. Anyway, I think most of those 'new concepts' were in Trevor Chan's Seven Kingdoms which was released in 1997 (I must buy that game again, I've lost it).

[Marek]

I don't agree with Rise of Nations getting so univerally lauded, but I'm not surprised either. The game is really really good, especially on the surface, but when you play it a little longer (10 hours +) you start to notice that the mix of RTS and TBS traditions doesn't work that well. I do think that a sequel could easily fix the things I didn't like about Rise of Nations, though.

But, erm, yeah ... read my review

[Farbror]

Yeah, I agree, this game looks kinda interesting. Reminds me about Europa Universalis. Though the Knight system sounds a little odd... Kinda like Governors in Civilization, but here, you actually choose a governor instead of tell him what to do. Guess it's more realistic, it might restrict freedom a little, but it certainly uppers the strategy level. Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on this.

[Chris]

read my review

publish your review

[Erkki]

but when you play it a little longer (10 hours +) you start to notice that the mix of RTS and TBS traditions doesn't work that well.

I just played the tutorial of Rise of Nations' demo and I think I was beginning to see that even after 1 hour of playing. Well, from my perspective anyway. It seems that the importance of fast mouse clicking has been reduced, but there is still a whole lot of micro-management. I didn't notice if the game speed was adjustable, but at the default speed I didn't really feel like I had time (unless I'd pause the game) to make choices and just upgraded everything I could as fast as I could.

And I think it's a bit ridiculous how fast you can advance from one age to the next and generally how fast things are built and researched. It was probably about the same in Age of Empires though?

I suspect that in multiplayer, vitory would still go to the player who would be able to click fastest and has a good memory -- to not forget to always upgrade things and create more troops etc.

[manny_c44]

Yeah strategy games that demand non stop fast clicking usually kind of miss the point for me...I guess thats why I've never movd beyond Civ, good old turn based.

War Craft 3 really comes to mind when talking about games that require too much micromanagment.

Hey, anybody remember Total Annihalation? That game was great.

[Erkki]

I just played another medieval strategy game demo -- Medieval Lords. It seems pretty unique.

Mostly it seems to be about building villages and towns, and expanding them by conquering neighbouring territories and towns.

In the demo, there was only one map, consisting of small islands where you had to repair a lighthouse to win. But you started off on a different island than the lighthouse, with just a few buildings and most of the building types disabled. You have to build a stone bridge to the island but you need a mason for that, which you don't have. I built a huge number of farms, towers, walls, houses and such things to increase my population until I could seize two other islands step by step. On the second island I conquered a town that had a mason and was finally able to build the bridge to the lighthouse island.

The combat is fully automatic. You just have to move your troops (which are usually garnisoned in towers and dungeons) to your neighbour's territory and when your first troop arrives there, a timer starts counting down to the moment when your troops will start attacking the enemy. They don't always seem to pick the smartest way to attack, but it's not too bad -- during combat you don't have control of them; and they either win or die. Which is not too bad because new troops are trained pretty fast.

Building the cities is similar to Sim City in the way that you'll have to see that all the houses have water, healthcare, security and some other things available (each house has a few needs meters a la The Sims).

The game seems quite fun, and looks really nice, but the gameplay and the interface lacks a layer or two of polish. And there was no tutorial in the demo, I had to figure out everything by myself, which wasn't too difficult. Took an hour or so to get used to the system.

A link

[Marek]

I didn't notice if the game speed was adjustable, but at the default speed I didn't really feel like I had time (unless I'd pause the game) to make choices and just upgraded everything I could as fast as I could.

There's no adjustable speed, and yep, you've found the game's biggest shortcoming.

And I think it's a bit ridiculous how fast you can advance from one age to the next and generally how fast things are built and researched. It was probably about the same in Age of Empires though?

Well that depends on what the demo showed. Randomized one-on-one battles in Rise of Nations basically have you go through the whole history of mankind in an hour. The actual campaign missions only have one new "era" per battle. (The other research slots are filled with technologies with a less dramatic impact).

[Erkki]

There's no adjustable speed, and yep, you've found the game's biggest shortcoming.

Actually, there is adjustable speed. I didn't notice it at first, but you can either change it from the options menu, or use the + and - keys of the keypad. I've used it now depending on the situation -- slow when I have lots of things to manage and fast when i want the battle to go quicker.

I also played the demo of the expansion pack - Thrones and Patriots and that seems to make it even better, but actually playing those two demos was enough for me. Sure, for RTS fans Rise of Nations may be an awesome game, but I've tired of the standard RTS formula years ago and although the 'novelties' of RoN make it a bit different, it's still too much the same old for me.

I think I'll try a Total War game instead. Which one is the best so far?

[Erkki]

The German demo of Knights of Honor is now available. The English demo is coming soon. I don't speak German, but I'm going to try it anyway

Oops. Forgot the link. Here. Or Here.

[Erkki]

Yay! The English (and French) demo will be released tomorrow (28 Sept).

[edlglide]

Rise of Nations isn't much more than a prettier/newer version of Age of Empires. The gameplay differences are fairly minor. Sure it's fun to play, but I think a game needs to do something more than just recreate an older game with new graphics to get that high of a rating.

[Erkki]

http://demo.knights-of-honor.net/

[Erkki]

The demo rocks! At least somewhat. The tutorial is crap, because it isn't continuous and it shows you all the aspects separately, not how they work together. Most learning I did by playing.

Playing the game itself is pretty damn good. There are a few problems, like no adjustable speed (sometimes you have to just wait for things, sometimes too many things going on at once); not very efficient interface etc.

The diplomatics are funny. When the game started I made Alliance with ALL KINGDOMS! Of course, that's not smart but I had to try and noone refused. But maybe that was on the easy level only. But later in the game, the diplomatics got quite interesting actually.

I haven't tried controlling the battles myself yet.

One thing that kind of bugged me at first was that not much was interactive. You make your decisions in the towns or by giving a few simple orders to your knights, and by going to auditions with other kings (where you make the diplomatic choices). But the villages and other settlements outside the cities can not be controlled. I guess in the end that's actually good because that reduces micro management.

And in this game, micro management isn't really an issue it seems. You HAVE TO make choices what to build because the building speed is rather slow and your cash is limited (although the other kingdoms seemed to have lots of it because they payed me ransom (for releasing a prisoner) several times, and it was more gold than I ever had before.

It seems armies can only be moved when there's a Marshall leading it, so the number of armies seems to be quite limited (you can have 8 or 9 Knights total -- including Marshalls, Spies, Merchants, Clerics, Builders, Landlords). But maybe that's also good.

[Erkki]

Yeah, I was right. The game gets much better with the 'normal' difficulty setting. Getting a trade agreement is hard with larger kingdoms, let alone an alliance. I'm getting addicted to this demo. Unfortunately, it always ends soon after your first king dies (or it may be triggered by another event, not really sure). This time I managed to make Scotland the 10th most powerful kingdom in Europe. Now I guess I'll try the 'hard' difficulty.

The ingame help and the interface is not the best though. I still haven't been able to figure out how some things work. A layer of polish is perhaps missing, but i tell you this game will be pretty damn good!

[Erkki]

Umm... it's getting kind of strange talking to myself, I hope at least someone listens.

Actually the speed in the game is adjustable. It was just hidden away like everything else. I didn't find any info on it, just accidentally pressed the keypad +/- keys.

And it's starting to bother me that information is hidden too deep or not available at all. As I get better at the game, I need more and more info, but the game just won't give it to me. For example I'd like to know a bit about the dynasties of other kingdoms before I click "Propose Royal Marriage" (or something like that). Instead, I'll just have to see their reaction "No you son of a bitch! Might I remind you that we don't have any offsprings to marry." ETC.

But despite that, the game rocks. (how many times I've said that) But I hope the full game won't be too easy because I was already the second most powerful kingdom when I played for the third time on the 'hard' difficulty. But quite a few things have been disabled in the demo so that may make it easier.

[Erkki]

Adrenaline Valut has reviewed Knights of Honor and gave it 4 stars out of 5. Based on the demo, I agree with the score, but the nuances mentioned in the review seem to suggest that in the full game the small flaws are less noticable or not present as the demo has quite a few options disabled.

Also, the game has apparently hit the stores a few days ago. I can't wait to get the full game already (hmm... maybe it's already in the local stores, have to check tomorrow). I haven't been so absorbed by a strategy game since the original Heroes of Might and Magic.

PS. I ********** Evil Genius to see what was different from the demo, but so far I'm not too impressed. It seemed overly confusing/complicated for me at first, and I can't see myself playing it if I could play Knights of Honor instead. I think I'll re-evaluate it after I've played KoH for a few months.