Ben X

A Song Of Ice And Fire

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Ben, when you finish book three, tell me. I'll link you to an essay that explains it. Also, it's inevitable that you'll miss a lot. Like I keep saying, there's a second layer of work happening that most people will inevitably miss on a first read-through.

That having been said, you have a good number of clues. Don't worry about that yet, though, since you've got some really serious shit coming-up.

I just finished it - send it my way pls? :)

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How good was that, eh?

I love that he plays completely fair, foreshadowing, showing you things, expecting you to connect dots. The Red Wedding is foretold at least three times

.

I wish I could link you to all the trivia that shows you how much you absolutely missed.

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Damn. Now I'm seriously intrigued, although I'm still halfway through book one!

I'm loving the "no real bad guy" stuff.

So this just happened:

Catelyn just totally spanked Tyrion's evil, but charming, little ass, having him arrested in a tavern. A few chapters later I'm watching things from his point of view, and now I feel sorry for him, and I'm unsure exactly how "evil" he actually is. Also: Eddark Stark seems like such a goddam tool. Given the highly volatile situation he's in, he's tipped his suspicious hand to SO many people that he seems to assume he can trust. I'm just like, "Don't tell them that! You have no idea who you can trust!". Also, he's convinced that the boy he discovered in the armorour's is Robert's son -- even though it could easily be Stannis's. The only reason that Ned gives for it not being Stannis's is that he's too austere and proper -- and yet a few chapters previous it was claimed he was seen entering a brothel with the late Jon Arryn. Clearly there's more to Stannis than meets the eye. I can't decide if it's George RR Martin saying to the reader: "I can't think of a good reason to make Ned convinced it's Robert's bastard son, so you'll just have to take his word for it -- it's Robert's son!" or "This is just Eddark's POV, his conclusions could be very flawed". Also, it's a little frustrating that the central mystery could be easily wrapped up by a single horseride to Casterly Rock or Dragonstone. If not Eddard, I'm sure Catelyn could hire some sellswords to escort her accross the dangerous mountains to see her sister, but no...

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I'm loving the "no real bad guy" stuff.

Same here. I love that the more time passes, the better you know these characters, even the ones who seem one dimensional at first. Sometimes, development is left for later volumes.

Regarding

Stannis, Robert and a son

, it's actually GRRM knowing his characters pretty well. You'll understand that line of reasoning better later.

Regarding everything else you said, keep reading! It's all explained in due time.

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Hmm, I'm intrigued about this article now, could I get a link?

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Hmm! I'm not sure what you mean by "GRRM knowing his characters pretty well". Does that mean it's just Eddard's POV, rather than GRRM saying, "Damn, I need to give the reader this bit of information. They shouldn't waste their time wondering about the truth of it. They should be wondering about other things. It's absolutely true, so I'll just give them a few reasons to believe it and move on."

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So, any progress from anyone on this thing? I got hit by the shakes again this week, but I'm losing myself in other good books to forget about it.

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I'm now at 80% through A Feast for Crows. It's definitely picking up again, especially all the action/subterfuge in King's Landing.

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Thunderpeel2001, you enjoy it!

SpeedyDesiato, You know, I do love A Feast for Crows a whole lot. There's loads of insights into the characters and it had this pleasant interlude feeling seeping throughout. It's not flawless, but it's my second favourite in the series. Admittedly, it's a bit slower early on, but ultimately it pays-off nicely.

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Also worth noting for those that may not know: There's an official map book coming out at the end of the month that promises a complete map of the known world, the free cities, beyond the wall, and i guessonly a few other things because amazon thinks it's only 16 pages long.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lands-Fire-Game-Thrones/dp/0345538544/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349801733&sr=8-1&keywords=lands+ice+fire

superb series. the show is also good.

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Thunderpeel2001, you enjoy it!

SpeedyDesiato, You know, I do love A Feast for Crows a whole lot. There's loads of insights into the characters and it had this pleasant interlude feeling seeping throughout. It's not flawless, but it's my second favourite in the series. Admittedly, it's a bit slower early on, but ultimately it pays-off nicely.

Woah. Second favourite in the series? I'm surprised. I've heard it's by far the most difficult to get through, as none of the "fan favourite" characters appear in it. A lot of people seemed to really dislike it, if I understand correctly. I'm amazed it's your second favourite!

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Also worth noting for those that may not know: There's an official map book coming out at the end of the month that promises a complete map of the known world, the free cities, beyond the wall, and i guessonly a few other things because amazon thinks it's only 16 pages long.

http://www.amazon.co...=lands ice fire

superb series. the show is also good.

Here's the first glimpse of the finished map... (click for fullsize) Taken from here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Gallery/Entry/3949/

LoIaF-The_North_01.png

First reaction... a little bit too cartoony for me. The map does feature some extra details on it, though.

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That Minecraft one is incredible.

Also, I never realized Braavos and White Harbor were so close to Winterfell. That's got some heavy implications...

Woah. Second favourite in the series? I'm surprised. I've heard it's by far the most difficult to get through, as none of the "fan favourite" characters appear in it. A lot of people seemed to really dislike it, if I understand correctly. I'm amazed it's your second favourite!

I love characters. There isn't a crapload of plot in A Feast for Crows, but there's a lot of insight into the characters and backstory. There's also that second layer of things which I love so much.

I think the book gets a bad rap for being a follow-up to A Storm of Swords. After that particular entry, expectations must have been insanely high. To follow the book up with only half the characters, lots of character fleshing-out and development, more set-up than pay-off, and then to take five years to write it and six years to follow-up on it must have turned people against the book.

Again, though, I think it fits really well with the rest of the series, and people should, in time - if and when the series is finished - learn to appreciate it.

What irks me is that so many people seem to love it on a re-read. I just wish they reflected that in their reviews online.

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Woah. Second favourite in the series? I'm surprised. I've heard it's by far the most difficult to get through, as none of the "fan favourite" characters appear in it. A lot of people seemed to really dislike it, if I understand correctly. I'm amazed it's your second favourite!

I have two favourite characters; one of them appears occasionally, the other doesn't. I'm OK with that, ADoD should be awesome.

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Yeah, one my of my favourite characters gets their POV chapters in Feast: the lovely

Brienne of Tarth

.

ADWD is a slow burn, initially, but it gets going once a certain POV comes into play and then runs at the halfway point. It seems that, as soon as Martin figured-out (book 5 spoiler)

how to work out the Meereenese Knot

, things smoothed-out and it becomes quite exciting.

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So I've just finished A Feast for Crows. Does anyone have a good site that will explain the thousand things I've missed?

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I would move on to Dance with Dragons before looking up Feast for Crows spoilers since they are so closely intertwined.

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What thl said. Also, there isn't one, big site. I had to do lots of Googling and my friend, a fellow ASOIAF enthusiast, shared loads of links with me.

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