An article wot i writ

[pabosher]

Hey guys, I know this will probably seem like extremely ghey self-promotion, but I thought you might be an audience that would like to read this sort of thing.

Basically, I recently wrote an article called 'Rated M for Mature', which tries to explore what it means to be a mature Video game. It's available to read here, but if you could access it via N4G, that would be even cooler.

I would copy and paste it into here, but it's pretty long and would be a killer to read, so I decided against it.

The general gist of it is;

In my view, there are four types of Mature game. One that causes a mature emotional response within the player, one that covers 'mature' ground such as drugs, violence, sex etc., one that includes childish subject matter but deals with it in a mature way, or one that treats the player as a mature individual.

What do you think is a mature Video game?

Edited May 13, 2010 by SpeedyDesiato

[Sombre]

I won't be "that guy" intentionally, but we DO have a "Promote yourself" thread or something like that.

Mature in games is down to narrative content in my eyes. Blood/gore/drugs/tits are irrelevant for the most part, because I know it's just a game.

[Jayel]

I won't be "that guy" intentionally, but we DO have a "Promote yourself" thread or something like that.

yeah but then "plug your stuff" thread would turn into discussion about mature games and that would be weird.

[pabosher]

Yeah this thread is more meant to be about the discussion, and as like a reference point, there's the article I wrote.

So Sombre, what do you mean by narrative content?

[Patters]

You know what, I'm fucking fed up with the term mature. It doesn't mean a god damn thing, it can easily refer to a number of things: Adult content (violence, sex, etc), emotional effectiveness or simply the presentation of the story.

After seeing a film do I think 'wow that was mature', no, of course I don't. One is more likely to think that it was saddening/heart warming/action packed. Those that seem to think it's important to justify particular games as mature are insecure about being a gamer. The medium can become mature, though when that happens is not clear to those involved at the time, it is clearer in retrospect.

Also it's not cool to simply link to an essay which most of us have seen in a dozen or more incarnations already. Title the thread appropriately and give us the conclusion along with a link for those that want to read it.

[ajenteks]

I think the whole labeling thing is way too subjective for there to be any type of a consensus as to what constitutes as mature content. For some people blood, gore, excessive cleavage and bad innuendo fit the bill, while others may draw the line at cursing, and while somebody else may think that virtually engaging in criminal acts constitutes as being mature.

This is where I think the ESRB fails, in that anyone who is concerned about mature content should investigate for themselves what they are getting into and/or allowing others to access. Resorting to all-encompassing labels is basically accepting failure.

For what it's worth though, "violence porn" is where I make a mature distinction, and I can't think of many instances in gaming where violence doesn't have a defensible context and where any subsequent gore is overly gratuitous. Movies, on the hand...

[Armchair General]

You are labouring the point somewhat I feel. What will be deemed 'mature' will depend upon what the majority, of the prevailing society in which that game/movie/play/book finds itself, would consider 'mature' to be. Therefore, one could not pigeon hole certain things as being mature or not mature.

Sure, there are themes that most societies would define as mature, but not all societies would. It's a branch of common morality.

There is no single definition of 'mature' for this reason.

[pabosher]

You are labouring the point somewhat I feel. What will be deemed 'mature' will depend upon what the majority, of the prevailing society in which that game/movie/play/book finds itself, would consider 'mature' to be. Therefore, one could not pigeon hole certain things as being mature or not mature.

Sure, there are themes that most societies would define as mature, but not all societies would. It's a branch of common morality.

There is no single definition of 'mature' for this reason.

Oh, absolutely. Almost any definition of an abstract idea qualifies on the society in which the idea is presented. I am looking more at the "Why does the ESRB label it Mature? What does that even mean?" angle. Or at least, I tried to.

[Sombre]

Yeah this thread is more meant to be about the discussion, and as like a reference point, there's the article I wrote.

So Sombre, what do you mean by narrative content?

Well let's compare games I've just played. I just played Heavy Rain, and for all its flaws or whatever in gameplay, the content in the narrative was a very mature style, whereas my other game, Beautiful Katamari is based towards children, just because of its quirky nature and aesthetics. But yeah, I guess I want a mature story as opposed to...not. Actually, I am still playing spelunky daily...

[Armchair General]

"Why does the ESRB label it Mature

...there are themes that most societies would define as mature...

I am still not sure why this is so difficult

[Lu]

Do you ever get that thing where you hear a word repeated so often that it loses all meaning? Mature... Mature... Maaatshuuuure.

The ESRB’s view of maturity is very simple: blood, guts, violence and sex. But is that really what ‘mature’ is?

Isn't ESRB's role more trying to determine what the age appropriate range of a game is? They might call it 'M for Mature', but they could've just called it 18+ like PEGI does. It says absolutely nothing about maturity.

Now, I don't want to be a petty asshole but, it does seem like a valid criticism since the main point of the article is about maturity in video games. It concerns this:

So where does that leave mature video games? I believe that a mature Video game should address me as the adult that I am.

You're 17. How can you answer the questions you ask yourself when you're not even mature yourself?

Personally, I don't really care. It either is or it isn't.

Edited May 13, 2010 by PiratePooAndHisBattleship

[toblix]

This isn't a comment on the essay, which I haven't read, but it seems to me this could go in the the "what is art?" thread, in which people argue about what a completely subjective term means. I'd say that when some rating agency uses the word mature to describe a game (or film) they're really saying it's intended for mature (as in older) audiences, which makes slightly more sense.

[James]

I think the article could perhaps do with a clearer sense of purpose than it currently has. Simply examining the meaning of the word "mature" in the context of gaming seems a little arbitrary. As has already been mentioned, there are two main avenues you can take this: maturity as a criterion for certification (although I don't think there's really much to that – as Pirate Poo suggested, it's really just a concise-if-misleading term meant to mean "not for kids" – which is purely a matter of avoiding harm, and therefore isn't concerned with narrative justification or anything like that), or maturity as it relates to the progress of gaming towards more intellectually and emotionally fulfilling areas, and the associated widening appeal. The latter is probably more fruitful territory, but may be better served by a more complete analysis of the issues, rather than so much focus on a matter of terminology. The categorization of potential meanings has some appeal, but ultimately it's more about words than it is about games, and it doesn't really matter what word we use for a particular thing, as long as we have a word for it, and we're clear on how it differs from other things.

All this said, I do agree that a lot of M-for-Mature games are intellectually thoroughly immature. Fascination with gratuitous quantities or extremities of mature themes is generally an adolescent trait, presumably because these things are still new enough to be worth binging on, without the need or desire for any sort of substance behind it. Truly great games will, I think, tend more towards the mature-as-in-grown-up end of the spectrum, but I think the future of gaming depends more on its confidence in itself as a unique medium than it does on its storytelling. The stuff that really excites me does not simply ape films; it provides experiences that would not be possible in the same way (or would not work at all in the same way) in films. Anyway, that's another subject entirely.

In conclusion, yes, it's a bit silly that people are so lazy with their terminology, but I don't think many people are genuinely confusing your categories, so I'm not sure how much it matters.

[Pilgrim72]

To me, a mature game is one that has been around for a while, and is no longer new....

[Pilgrim72]

I.E. Treasure Island Dizzy is mature...

COD6 is not mature...

[Armchair General]

I.E. Treasure Island Dizzy is mature...

COD6 is not mature...

I love this guy

[Snooglebum]

Well let's compare games I've just played. I just played Heavy Rain, and for all its flaws or whatever in gameplay, the content in the narrative was a very mature style, whereas my other game, Beautiful Katamari is based towards children, just because of its quirky nature and aesthetics. But yeah, I guess I want a mature story as opposed to...not. Actually, I am still playing spelunky daily...

I thought it was based towards people who do their gaming in a padded cell?

Also, Spelunky obviously contains mature themes about mortality and the pointlessness of repetition.

[Pilgrim72]

I find that over-analysis just turns you into a character from Dawsons Creek, or some other American 'teen-opera'...