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ethanThomas

The Myth of Sisyphus (Trials HD)

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I'm enjoying the hell out of the game, though I can't imagine how people can possibly beat any of those Extreme levels, let alone get gold on them.

Also I was messing around with the level editor and I'm enjoying just experimenting with it, there's a lot of really complex scripting stuff you can do that can result in some really fun and crazy levels. I have a level shared if anyone wants to check it out (I believe you can only see levels created by your friends, which is lame, so feel free to add me if you want...), and have some thoughts on maybe a wizard-centric track down the line.

FYI, if you try my level, just be aware there are three paths through the course, only one of which do you not cross the finish line on fire. Also you will probably be crushed by giant steel balls on a steady basis.

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I enjoy the title of this thread.

Seconded. There are definitely a few levels that could go on eternally if there wasn't that time limit.

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I think the title is too intellectual. How about something more straightforward and down to earth, that people can actually understand without getting a degree in intellecualism?

My Trials HD playing has been eschewed by the Bat Man, X-Files, some Wadjet Eye Games games, Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton (not Henry Hatsworth), but I agree it's pretty great. Not greatest ever -- that would be Commandos 2 or Half-Life 2 or something -- but really great. For me, the whole key to its greatness lies in its quickness in letting you restart when you mess something up. If they'd waited another half a second or something I wouldn't've played it anywhere as much as I have.

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I think the title is too intellectual. How about something more straightforward and down to earth, that people can actually understand without getting a degree in intellecualism?

So wait, you don't want to read my 5,000 word essay analyzing the thematic continuity between Trials, No Exit, and The Stranger?;(

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You probably already know my opinion on Trials HD :)

Not messed with the level editor yet, I take it that it's easy to work with given the interface is a pad?

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Well, just to finally weigh in on this after downloading the 360 demo... I still really hate Trials. It's the same game I bought for £1.50 on Steam and hated (albeit with a few more explosions, different levels, etc.). Maybe I just don't "get it", but I just find it infuriatingly dull.

Hmm. :hmph:

Thinking about it, I think the problem is I don't understand how you're supposed to improve. It just seems rather random, and trial and error. And playing the same level over and over (and over) trying improve your score, without knowing if you should've jumped higher or lower, or faster or slower, or whatever, is just frustrating.

I'm prepared to try again and see if I can get into it, though... Any ideas?

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Ok, a few tips:

The moving markers you get for friends that are close to you on the score table help you to see when you can do part of a course faster or not. You'll probably find that with a bit of repetition, you can nail the beginning of the course as fast as if not faster than the people in your top 6 or so. From there, you have scope to see how you're doing with the rest of it in comparison to others.

Also, the score tables egg you on in showing that things are at least possible. Akumifune and Scrobbs have both been kicking my ass on some tracks, and I know a student who also seems to be way better at it than me. Their markers come up when I'm doing well, so I can learn what pace I should be managing from them.

Gaining and maintaining momentum is all about keeping your back wheel down. Back wheel = traction = speed, but like a real trials bike, it also has an immense amount of torque and will throw you straight off the back if you're not careful (especially with the Scorpion - not unlocked any more powerful bikes yet, but you don't need this one until you get to the hard levels). By the mid point of the game, you'll be tending to shift your weight forward a lot more than you have to shift it back.

If you come to a standstill on a steep incline, plant the wheels, rev the bike a little, then increase the frequency of the revving until you start to climb (Shifting weight forward at or before that point will just lift your back wheel and cause you to fall/roll backwards on the front one). After a bit of revving, you'll have just the little bit of upward momentum you need to open up on the throttle and simultaneously throw your weight forwards into the ramp.

When landing, try to keep the bike parallel to the surface you're landing on, this will minimise bounce and let you put as much power down through the back wheel as possible. Having the back wheel touch just a little bit before the front is good too. If you do bounce, trying to correct it by shifting your weight after it's started is deadly, as it's liable to just rock you from one wheel to the other until you overcompensate and crash. The best way if it does happen is to let off the throttle and tweak the rider position just a little at a time until the bike settles down.

At the top of little up-and-back-down-the-other-side ramps, shifting weight forward at the apex of a tiny jump is also a nifty trick for getting your back wheel over the top quickly and economically. When you get it just right, the engine block hovers just above the apex of the ramp, the bike more or less pivots around it, the front wheel makes contact with the other side and you roll out of it. Too slow and the engine block lands on the apex of the ramp, and you're fucked :P

If your engine block is lifting up very far above the top of hills/jumps, or you're having to land on the back wheel, that's pretty inefficient and likely to make you crash more frequently. The exception to that is when you're going so fast your speed will let you fly over or at least up the next one too (Finding a fast route through the level called Container Rush depends a lot on finding which jumps you can skip through speed, and hitting the ones you can't just right on the run into them).

It's about a compromise between traction and air. For instance, the tracks in the very first tournament are all quite gentle and undulating. If you slow down enough to not jump off all those hills, you'll get a shit time; the extra speed you get by not jumping doesn't come anywhere near making up for the amount of velocity you're dumping into your brakes to stay on the ground. When a course is that gentle it's best to keep the throttle wide open and concentrate on landing well to get more traction in the time you are on the ground. A lot of the courses have a mix of these kind of compromises - there are sections you should absolutely nail through, and others you should treat more technically and take your time on.

Getting lots of air on steeper jumps looks good, lets you practice landings and also lets you do somersaults, but you don't get rewarded for any of that, just the speed with which you can negotiate the course. Hitting a steep ramp at the right speed to send you into the next section of the course is way more important than just hitting it fast.

Edited by Nachimir

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I like it... And Camus. Apparently my philosophy degree comes in handy once in a while. Thanks for the memories!

Edit- Oh! I forgot. I like Trials, but on more than one occasion has this game caused me to try to attempt to break furniture. I stopped when my wrist started throbbing from an errant blow to the ottoman.

Edited by jneeriem

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Ok, a few tips:

The moving markers you get for friends that are close to you on the score table help you to see when you can do part of a course faster or not. You'll probably find that with a bit of repetition, you can nail the beginning of the course as fast as if not faster than the people in your top 6 or so. From there, you have scope to see how you're doing with the rest of it in comparison to others.

Also, the score tables egg you on in showing that things are at least possible. Akumifune and Scrobbs have both been kicking my ass on some tracks, and I know a student who also seems to be way better at it than me. Their markers come up when I'm doing well, so I can learn what pace I should be managing from them.

Gaining and maintaining momentum is all about keeping your back wheel down. Back wheel = traction = speed, but like a real trials bike, it also has an immense amount of torque and will throw you straight off the back if you're not careful (especially with the Scorpion - not unlocked any more powerful bikes yet, but you don't need this one until you get to the hard levels). By the mid point of the game, you'll be tending to shift your weight forward a lot more than you have to shift it back.

If you come to a standstill on a steep incline, plant the wheels, rev the bike a little, then increase the frequency of the revving until you start to climb (Shifting weight forward at or before that point will just lift your back wheel and cause you to fall/roll backwards on the front one). After a bit of revving, you'll have just the little bit of upward momentum you need to open up on the throttle and simultaneously throw your weight forwards into the ramp.

When landing, try to keep the bike parallel to the surface you're landing on, this will minimise bounce and let you put as much power down through the back wheel as possible. Having the back wheel touch just a little bit before the front is good too. If you do bounce, trying to correct it by shifting your weight after it's started is deadly, as it's liable to just rock you from one wheel to the other until you overcompensate and crash. The best way if it does happen is to let off the throttle and tweak the rider position just a little at a time until the bike settles down.

At the top of little up-and-back-down-the-other-side ramps, shifting weight forward at the apex of a tiny jump is also a nifty trick for getting your back wheel over the top quickly and economically. When you get it just right, the engine block hovers just above the apex of the ramp, the bike more or less pivots around it, the front wheel makes contact with the other side and you roll out of it. Too slow and the engine block lands on the apex of the ramp, and you're fucked :P

If your engine block is lifting up very far above the top of hills/jumps, or you're having to land on the back wheel, that's pretty inefficient and likely to make you crash more frequently. The exception to that is when you're going so fast your speed will let you fly over or at least up the next one too (Finding a fast route through the level called Container Rush depends a lot on finding which jumps you can skip through speed, and hitting the ones you can't just right on the run into them).

It's about a compromise between traction and air. For instance, the tracks in the very first tournament are all quite gentle and undulating. If you slow down enough to not jump off all those hills, you'll get a shit time; the extra speed you get by not jumping doesn't come anywhere near making up for the amount of velocity you're dumping into your brakes to stay on the ground. When a course is that gentle it's best to keep the throttle wide open and concentrate on landing well to get more traction in the time you are on the ground. A lot of the courses have a mix of these kind of compromises - there are sections you should absolutely nail through, and others you should treat more technically and take your time on.

Getting lots of air on steeper jumps looks good, lets you practice landings and also lets you do somersaults, but you don't get rewarded for any of that, just the speed with which you can negotiate the course. Hitting a steep ramp at the right speed to send you into the next section of the course is way more important than just hitting it fast.

Wow. Thanks! Since you went to so much effort I guess I'm obliged to really give it a proper go.


I'll see how I get on.

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It usually takes me less than an hour to nail a level at the moment. I think I might video the next one to show edited fuckups followed by a 0 faults run and how long it took me in total.

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I would also strongly recommend playing the tutorials in Trials 2:SE a few times until you feel that you've mastered the technique being taught. Unfortunately the tutorial levels are built in such a way that they can be completed without the player really understanding the intended lesson.

That said, if you give the game another try (trial?:eyebrow:) and still aren't having any fun, I would certainly recommend ditching it. Trials is rather like old school Mega Man in that the controls are very simple but the actions required of the player can often be extremely complex and difficult to perform. Both MM and Trials can't really be brute forced (or at least brute forced while still being fun), and so in the game doesn't 'click' for you then it will simply be an exercise in tedium and frustration. And for what it's worth I rather dislike old school Mega Man games.

While I love them, the Trials games are not 'important' games. They will not be highly influential nor an major landmark in Video game history. While something like Half-Life 2 or Final Fantasy 7 might be worth playing even if you don't enjoy them in order to understand the history of the medium, Trials simply isn't.

(This is all a rather fancy way of saying give Trials another shot. If you don't like it don't worry, there are plenty of other games worth your time, energy, and money)

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You can watch the replays of all the top scores (pretty much any Platinum run gets saved, it seems), so if you're having trouble figuring out what you can do to improve your time, taking a peek at the top ghosts is always an option.

Not messed with the level editor yet, I take it that it's easy to work with given the interface is a pad?

As easy as can be expected. The camera can be a little tricky if you want to edit or move one object that's behind another one, but after about a half hour or so I got used to it.

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(This is all a rather fancy way of saying give Trials another shot. If you don't like it don't worry, there are plenty of other games worth your time, energy, and money)

Thanks! :tup:

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Today I managed to beat most of you (except Horticulture Tycoon) in the Beginner levels. Hort, do you have a faster bike or something? (I have the 4th bike, don't remember the name, 250cc I think)

Perhaps I should put on a top ghost.

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You were a second or so ahead of everyone else on all levels. Must have fast fingers indeed.

Also, forgot to mention I played your level and it was quite fun!

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A few of the hard levels actually made me gnaw on the controller today, but I managed them... :deranged:

I also spotted something funny: Where there are usually signs with diagrams and arrows showing what you should do with the bike on new obstacles, Dynamic Range has a couple that show someone flying off a cliff and a crossed pair of fingers :) (they whizz by at 2:43 in that video - not by me)

I eventually managed gold on that level with no faults. Still haven't taken any video, but the same guy who posted the one above also made this one of a really impressive platinum run. Didn't realise you could hop the balls like that :eek:

Edited by Nachimir

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A few of the hard levels actually made me gnaw on the controller today, but I managed them... :deranged:

Just wait until you get to extreme...:frusty:

I would highly recommend trying to get gold on most of the medium and hard levels before tackling extreme (unless of course you're an unbelievable masochist).

Also for some reason the game only allows you 300 faults and/or 20 (Edit: it might actually be 30, see the post below) minutes on a given level. Unless this is a purely technical issue, it's a choice I really don't understand.

Edited by ethanThomas

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Also for some reason the game only allows you 300 faults and/or 20 minutes on a given level. Unless this is a purely technical issue, it's a choice I really don't understand.

Isn't it 30 minutes? I just tried an extreme level earlier and noticed I had been playing it for 25 minutes when I gave up. Anyway, I think this is bullshit, they shouldn't do this. The levels where the time limit is an issue are already painful, it's like torture to almost finish a really hard level and then hit a time limit. Had this happen to me in Trials 2 on the PC.

Frankly, I think that while Trials is fun and I like it (at least before the Extreme difficulty), there's a lot of bad game/level design in there as well. I would even say that some of the challenge in the harder levels is achieved with bad game design. Or maybe I'm just a wussy.

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Well I just went back and played Trials 2: SE and actually started to enjoy it! I raced against the ghost of n0wak and didn't move on until I beat his scores... Quite good fun actually!

I think the thing that was getting me is that pulling left or pushing right gets more intense if you're holding it... it's not just the weight of the biker, as I'd presumed. Learning that helped a bit.

Hmmm!

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Woo :)

Isn't it 30 minutes? I just tried an extreme level earlier and noticed I had been playing it for 25 minutes when I gave up. Anyway, I think this is bullshit, they shouldn't do this.

I can see how this would get annoying, there are a few people on my list who just want to get through levels and don't care how many faults they get. When you're trying to minimise faults, a 30 minute time limit seems like a lot of time though. Saying that, I haven't tried extreme yet.

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I can see how this would get annoying, there are a few people on my list who just want to get through levels and don't care how many faults they get. When you're trying to minimise faults, a 30 minute time limit seems like a lot of time though. Saying that, I haven't tried extreme yet.

I was able to complete all the extreme levels without encountering either limit (probably because I played a shit ton of Trials 2: SE), but I really think that these limits are arbitrary and unnecessary. Sure 300 faults is a lot and 30 minutes is a really long time to spend on one track, I guess I just think it's silly to punish players who are already struggling.

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I found changing bikes to be handy on some levels...I initially assumed that the one you unlock last is the best(Phoenix), but sometimes the Scorpion is better.

Also, Ethan, how long do you have to play this to get Extreme done. I've been playing this since last sunday, most days...at the moment I feel like I have no chance. Never really played a Trials before.

P.s. It's the first game in years that has made me move the contoller around unconciously like a goon to get that extra bit of height/distance. As a 'gamer', I feel ashamed to admit this :getmecoat

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