MGS3: Fail? :(

[Cigol]

I definitely think MGS4 will appeal to the guys complaining about the 'difficulty' of Snake Eater. It's considerably easier on the normal setting than any other MGS game I've ever played, and it doesn't punish you for playing it as an action game - which the more I think about it, the more refreshing it is. [toblix mode = true] But I personally dislike the awesomeness ring, I think it detracts from the immersive nature of the game because unless I missed the explanation, how is it tied in technologically? Sure it's useful but I would have preferred something you could switch on or off. It just annoys me!

[DanJW]

The awesomeness ring does sound awesome. Am I right in thinking it represents Snake's instincts? Similar to the 'feeling of being watched'?

More stuff on MGS3, because I could basically write a thesis on this thing:

Because of the lack of SOLITON, combined with the larger environments, more guards with more complex patrol routes and better AI (and who are themselves somewhat camouflaged) this game requires a lot more patience than the others. Thinking back to when I first played it I think I got the hang of it when I forced my self to lie still and watch the enemy through binoculars for ages, until I had their patrol pattern confirmed.

Another thing; Toblix, the intro movie is ace! I love it. Of course it smacks of Bond movie - a lot of Snake Eater is about lampooning Bond (I like trying to get through as much of the game as I can while wearing the tuxedo you earn on first completion. And the lecture that The Boss gives you as a result, pointing out how useless evening wear is for any kind of mission).

Indeed, I would go as far to say that MGS3 is the best James Bond game ever. I hope the devs of the next movie tie-in are paying attention.

Also the intro movie is interactive (try playing with the analogue sticks and shoulder buttons while watching it), as is the title screen

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hmmm. Still not sure about the opening video. I'll watch it again now that I'm more "on board", but nothing about the actual game reminds me of early Bond movies, to be honest. It's just that Snake is an undercover operative, like James Bond, at the same time that the Bond movies were exploding. Maybe it won't grate so much next time.

[Thrik]

... bloody hell, the boss battles in MGS4 are mental. At least, the first one is. I think I've come out of that with mild psychological disturbance!

[DanJW]

YES! Finally got the DPM uniform. Had to get the top score on all of the Special Duel fights. Man that was tough. I very nearly gave up. Can I be bothered to get the Green Facepaint from the normal duel mode? hmm.

As for the Bond allusions, well there's the exotic settings, the women, the flirting with the women, the one-liners, the music, the gadgets (knockout gas hidden in cigarettes FTW) the scarred villains, the English colleagues, the theft of nuclear arms, underground lairs and factories. In fact given the existence of the tuxedo and many of the above in MGS1, I think it's a safe guess that Hideo Kojima always used Bond as an inspiration. It's just that in MGS3 the time period let him make it much more overt.

[DanJW]

Yes, yes I could be bothered with the green facepaint. Dammit this game is like crack for completionist/explorer players like myself.

Heh, more on the Bond thing; there's a post-save codec conversation where the Major goes off on one about Bond movies. Snake says he doesn't like them because they're not very realistic.

also this:

There's Twin Snakes as well!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Meryl is WRONG (unless it's revealed she's put on a load of weight in MSG4?)

[DanJW]

Erm, I'm not sure how you're supposed to handle stature with LEGO people.

Hah, just browsed the rest of the site. The Altair character and the Mass Effect Mako model are great!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Well, I completed it!

I never quite got the same feeling of enjoyment as I did from MGS2. I felt the storyline (usually one of MGS's strongest points) was pretty weak: Go after your boss, stop the baddies and kill the four horsemen of the apocalypse on route.

With the other games the bosses felt like they we're part of the storyline -- but here they felt tacked on. It was only really the end (and I mean RIGHT at the end) where the storyline came back.

In many ways MGS3 improved upon the elements of the previous games. You were a lot more "in" the game, there were no "cheap" ways to get past things and the conversations were always short, amusing and to the point... But in terms of the whole mythology and the actual fun I had playing it, I preferred MGS2.

Edited September 5, 2008 by ThunderPeel2001

[ThunderPeel2001]

I liked the idea that S3 was the production of a Solid Snake replica (Raiden) but then we are almost immediately told that it is some kind of mind control thingy instead. And as for Rose... is she an evil tool of the Patriots or not? Did she really say or that mindfuck stuff at the end or was that a simulation like the Colonel? If I was in control of Raiden at the end I would have shot her on the spot

She was never involved. The whole thing was just a fake, AFAI understood it. All being created by the Patriots.

Got to say that I felt a lot more emotionally touched by MGS2 than MGS3. The ending of MGS2 was especially potent and I loved the conspiracy stuff. In 3 it just wasn't there... I didn't really feel anything for the characters. For example, when

Snake has his eye removed

you'd think that more of a fuss would be made.

Plus, the whole thing with Tatanya/EVA was almost repulsive. Here's this amazing superspy woman - being forced into being Volgin's lover for her mission (yuck) - and yet when she's not playing her "part" she walks around with her boobs out trying to seduce Snake. I didn't feel any real love between the two of them, despite how subtley it was portrayed.

It's a shame, I still think there's something I was missing. I'll probably go back at some point and experience it again...

[DanJW]

Might just be a matter of taste. I much prefer MGS3, obviously. The Sons of Liberty plot felt overly contrived to me.

I agree that The Cobras feel a bit tacked on at first. But when you start to think about what they represent, they gain some pathos. In a way they are all extensions of The Boss, each emotion that they "carry" form her world-view, and as they die they take her whole era with them.

[Thrik]

The general feel, story, and atmosphere of MGS3 is definitely the odd one out in the series, although I do still love it. I'd imagine people will be drawn to one or the other as a result, and I myself do prefer the modern era MGS feel.

I think you're likely to prefer MGS4 going off what you've said, as it's definitely more in the vein of MGS2 with regards to its storytelling, bosses, etc. In fact, going off your apparent love for MGS2 I think you're going to appreciate a lot of things in MGS4.

On that note, I now have more respect for what MGS2 was having now finished MGS4. I never thought MGS2's story was bad, but there were definitely lots of areas that needed elaboration and development. In that respect, MGS4 makes MGS2 slot into the series much better IMO and I find it easier to swallow its ultra-plot.

[miffy495]

Actually, the story of MGS3 didn't really get all that amazing for me until I played Portable Ops and (to a certain extent) MGS4. Those two games lend so much more weight to what went on in MGS3 and the mythology really does get a lot more fleshed out knowing all that. If you have/when you get/if you get a PS3, make sure to download the MGS database and at least read up on what happened in PO. It makes 3 that much more integrated into the overall storyline and the whole thing seemed a lot more important when I went for my second playthrough because of it.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Cool, thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely do that!

[miffy495]

Just be sure to keep an eye out for Frank Jaeger. He made PO awesome.