Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence

[ThunderPeel2001]

Also, I am massively looking forward to playing the HD re-release of this. However I'm hanging on and hoping to God there's a HD re-release of

on the Wii-U first. :tup::tup:

I can only presume that they'll make a decision regarding a HD release of Twin Snakes (and presumably Portable Ops) based on the sales of the first HD collection. I hope it happens!

Also, I noticed that the PS3 version has WAY more trophies than the XBox version has Achievements. Not sure how I feel about that

[Salacious Snake]

I love the ridiculous cutscenes in Twin Snakes (best part of that video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KlM79v9ddYs#t=3985s )

It would be cool to see it pop up on the WiiU.

I think Kojima has expressed an interest in re-remaking MGS, since an upscaled version of the original (along the lines of what Bluepoint did for the HD Collection) would still look like a poop from a butt. It would also be an opportunity to modernize some other elements.

I would personally enjoy playing a high resolution Twin Snakes on the PS3/Xbox, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. There could be legal weirdness there, and a lot of people seem to dislike that version anyway.

[Thrik]

Yeah, the original MGS is well beyond a bit of touching up. I guess completely remaking it would be pretty hot, although I think the result wouldn't actually be that far off Twin Snakes with snazzier graphics. It was actually Kojima himself who wanted the cutscenes making more dramatic in Twin Snakes, allegedly turning down a version with the cutscenes recreated down to every last camera angle.

I think most people do actually like Twin Snakes, though. There's a vocal minority displeased with the fact some things were messed around with, but then these are the same kind of people who go mental about

the layout of Shadow Moses being adjusted slightly

in MGS4. And considering that MGS4 treats things introduced in Twin Snakes as canon, I consider it the definitive version of MGS1 and would be more than happy with a re-release a la the HD PS3 set to be in my collection forever.

And yes, the Twin Snakes Ninja depiction is gloriously mental.

[ThunderPeel2001]

What minor stuff did they change for the Twin Snakes, do you know?

Also, holy crap, I REALLY had trouble when I first played MGS3: MGS3: Fail?

I can't believe how different my impression of it was this time around. I'm so glad I finally got to experience it the way it was meant to be experienced.

[Lu]

What minor stuff did they change for the Twin Snakes, do you know?

Yea, Mei Ling and Naomi Hunter both had foreignese accents, but turned American in Twin Snakes.

Twin Snakes is one of those games that my teen self thought was awesome, but my now-self thinks the cutscenes are a bit too much. One thing that has remained the same is that the model they used for Snake is weird and off looking.

[Salacious Snake]

What minor stuff did they change for the Twin Snakes, do you know?

If you'd like to see a list of differences, look here: http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_The_Twin_Snakes#Game_mechanics

It all adds up to making it a significantly different experience. It's much easier than the original.

If you're into the series, I think they're divergent enough that it's worth playing both. I'm not sure which version I'd recommend to someone who has played neither.

[Thrik]

I'd recommend Twin Snakes every time. While I'm typically forgiving when it comes to graphics, MGS1 sits on the wrong side of the 'when 3D games started to look timeless' line for me. Even though I thought it looked spectacular at the time and my original love for the whole series came from that game, I just can't get into how it looks now — and if I can't, someone new to the series is going to seriously struggle. Also the gameplay does feel a bit too stiff and fragile in comparison, even if Twin Snakes makes things easier (although I've played it on Extreme and 'easy' is not a word I'd use to describe it).

Overall I don't think anyone is losing anything by experiencing Twin Snakes instead of MGS1, although it is a shame we can't just take them back in time to when MGS1 blew everyone away.

I agree that some of the cutscenes were made a bit OTT, although it's easy to exaggerate the issue. In reality less than a handful of shots were taken to the extreme, and even those weren't really any worse than what we've seen in all three subsequent MGS games. Other than that, I think Twin Snakes' cutscenes were largely done much better than MGS1's and most of the iconic moments were treated with a lot of respect. I reckon if Kojima could edit out those few crazy-ass bits he would, so maybe we'll see a third remake or adjusted version of Twin Snakes that takes the best bits of both.

Something that'd slipped my mind until I saw the video above is how good the cutscene music is in Twin Snakes. Seems it's actually specifically done by the same guy who did much of the music in MGS2–4, whereas the in-game stuff is done by relative nobodies. Real shame none of it is available for separate listening.

[Lu]

I agree that some of the cutscenes were made a bit OTT, although it's easy to exaggerate the issue. In reality less than a handful of shots were taken to the extreme, and even those weren't really any worse than what we've seen in all three subsequent MGS games.

The disparity in tone compared to the rest of the games in the series is pretty significant, in my opinion. I remember a lot of Snake suddenly performing superhuman feats, like jumping over doorframes, and backflipping offa rockets, shrugging off a near direct tank shell hit, throwing a Cyborg Ninja across a room... Actually, thinking about all that puts a smile to my face. There was also Liquid appearing to be dead, being alive, being dead, being alive again and then fucking finally being dead in the space of like 2 minutes.

It's probably a matter of preference and I do agree that (disregarding the over the top stuff) the cutscenes were better and that it plays a lot smoother. So really, you can't go wrong with playing Twin Snakes over the original. They're both equally stupid.

AND I CAN'T STOP LOVING IT.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Looking at that list, there's too many improvements for the crazy cut scenes and dubious music/voice overs to ruin the experience.

It's interesting to compare the differences...

Twin Snakes:

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The original:

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[Thrik]

I remember a lot of Snake suddenly performing superhuman feats, like jumping over doorframes, and backflipping offa rockets, shrugging off a near direct tank shell hit, throwing a Cyborg Ninja across a room...

Well yeah, that's what I mean. Those things were a bit out of character for Snake — although it is understandable Kojima might want to emphasise the fact that there's a reason Snake was so legendary in his youth — but there wasn't really anything beyond that which was silly. Out of hours of cutscenes that's not too bad, and well worth it for the improved cinematography just about everywhere else. And most admirably of all, the dialogue remained pretty much identical throughout.

But yes, I think we're in agreement. Both versions are splendid and the only thing remaining is for one of them to be overhauled into looking good in HD. I just don't feel right starting my HD MGS adventure with MGS2!

[Salacious Snake]

Both versions are splendid and the only thing remaining is for one of them to be overhauled into looking good in HD. I just don't feel right starting my HD MGS adventure with MGS2!

At least Twin Snakes has a progressive scan mode, so it doesn't look too bad on an HD set.

[Thrik]

Oh, does it? Well I'll give it a while and if a new release doesn't seem to be on the horizon I will most likely break down and play it via the Wii.

[Salacious Snake]

Yup. If you play on a Wii, it should prompt you when you boot it up. If you use a real live Gamecube, then you need to hold B while you start it. It makes a big difference; between that and the widescreen option, it's fairly easy on the eyes.

[syntheticgerbil]

If you'd like to see a list of differences, look here: http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_The_Twin_Snakes#Game_mechanics

It all adds up to making it a significantly different experience. It's much easier than the original.

I definitely know that having both the M9 and FPV at your arsenal tend to make the game super simple. I didn't play the original MGS but I have played the VR Missions on Playstation all the way through and it could get very frustrating in terms of controls and telling where things were on screen.

I still don't want to play the original MGS if I don't have to, even though I tend to be a version whore. In general I do my best to avoid 320x240 3D games with texture maps that float around while I move and Twin Snakes doesn't seem to have enough changed that I can justify playing the PSX one, especially when VR Missions gave me a break down of all the older mechanics.

I reckon if Kojima could edit out those few crazy-ass bits he would...

Haha I figure if he touched them now, he'd just make them even crazier.

I just don't feel right starting my HD MGS adventure with MGS2!

That's definitely a shame for those who bought the HD collection just finally wanting to see what the fuss about Metal Gear was all along. MGS2 is just not a good starting point, even one of the MSX games is a better starting point (assuming they know how to get there through the menu). There's just too much wackiness in the storyline in 2 and way too much tends to be overwhelming or too hard to follow for someone starting off. MGS1 is so perfectly grounded just like 3 and can be played alone without touching another Metal Gear game. I feel if someone ends up not liking Twin Snakes, even with the over the top stuff (which will be more prominent later anyway), they aren't going to like the rest of the series.

I don't feel 2 is majorly representative of everything I've played so far. I haven't done 4 yet, but that's next on my list since I just finished Portable Ops this week.

Edited April 26, 2012 by syntheticgerbil

[ThunderPeel2001]

I don't feel 2 is majorly representative of everything I've played so far. I haven't done 4 yet, but that's next on my list since I just finished Portable Ops this week.

The HD collection sort of steers you towards playing 3 first, which works, I think.

What did you make of Portable Ops? I've not played it, and some folk seem to think it's not really canon.

I think Kojima has had enough of Snake... at least according to this guy:

http://metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs4_kojimaVSmgs4.html

[syntheticgerbil]

That's true, I forgot that the main menu has the third game as the automatically selected one.

I didn't like Portable Ops though. It was a boring, tedious mess that had no engaging maps or interactivity with the playfield. The storyline and cutscenes are so laughably distant between what you do in game that you are just kind of slogging for the next piece. There's hardly any codec conversations that are even related, granting you can get someone on the codec at all (you seem to have to dial people 10 times until they feel like talking to you?).

So besides the normal MGS mechanics you just run around doing missions on open minimaps where you capture guards back your truck for recruiting, get to some X on the map so that a cutscene will play, or putting TNT on various objects. Besides some uninspired boss battles, it's just a game of nothing.

However the cutscenes and story are great. They art is by Ashley Wood, who is very talented and responsible for the comic book series and the Peacewalker cutscenes, also done in the digital graphic novel style. I think it's worth at least watching all of the cutscenes on Youtube if you like the Metal Gear Solid 3 storyline. It follows directly after those events and branches in to the Peacewalker storyline. Besides some minor retconning done with Grey Fox that is supposedly canon, I'm not sure why people are saying it's not canon, as there's nothing drastically different or out of place in the storyline. If anything it has a few key points for establishing why Big Boss will go on to create Outer Heaven. It's not an alternate universe like Metal Gear Acid or Ghost Babel.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I think it's because Kojima wasn't really involved, and has apparently distanced himself from it. Also apparently Peace Walker just goes and does what Portable Ops attempted. I've no idea how true any of that is, however.